Ha ha that made me chuckle Turkish. I actually said that to a mate on the phone today! We dont even have mains gas in our village!Pmsl Yorkshire isn’t a race it’s a time warp, but I get ya point
Off Topic Coronavirus
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As an infrequent poster but a regular reader of this thread it strikes me that he has a different point of view to your clique. I haven't observed WUM behaviour. Sorry if you don't agree but that's my observation.
What are 'Covid toes'? Doctors discover symptom of coronavirus mostly seen in kids
Adrianna Rodriguez12:20, Apr 22 2020
Coronavirus: Concerns Kiwis are getting complacent
The Police have now charged nearly 4000 people with breaching lockdown restrictions, many in last weekend just before the Prime Minister announced the country will move next week to Alert Level 3.
Doctors identified a new symptom of coronavirus, informally dubbed "Covid toes."
The presence of purple or blue lesions on a patient's feet and toes puzzles infectious disease experts.
NORTHWESTERN
Images showing the progression of "Covid toes" from Northwestern Medicine in the US.
"They're typically painful to touch and could have a hot burning sensation," said Ebbing Lautenbach, chief of infectious disease at the University of Pennsylvania's School of Medicine.
"Covid toes" appear in patients who don't exhibit any other symptoms. Similarly, the loss of taste and smell was found to be associated with Covid-19 among otherwise asymptomatic patients by the American Academy of Otolaryngology Head and Neck Surgery and ENT UK in late March.
READ MORE:
* Why do some people with coronavirus get symptoms while others don't?
* Coronavirus destroys lungs. Now its damage is being found in kidneys & hearts
* Possible coronavirus treatments tested
* How coronavirus impacts children differently from adults
"This is a manifestation that occurs early on in the disease, meaning you have this first, then you progress," Lautenbach said. "Sometimes this might be your first clue that they have Covid when they don't have any other symptoms."
Dawn Wahezi@DWahezi
https://twitter.com/DWahezi/status/1248804396470804481
Please be aware there are skin signs of covid. Purple red papules on the fingers and toes. Looks like chilblains/ pernio. May have no other covid symptoms. Seen in young people.
Images of pernio like changes of Covid-19 from Italy @TamarPedsRheum @NataliaVasCan @IreneBlancoMD
https://twitter.com/DWahezi/status/1248804396470804481
"Covid toes" in some people can disappear in the course of a week to 10 days, but others progress to respiratory symptoms, he said.
The new symptom appears in more children and young adults than any other age group. Ebbing suggested this may be because children and young adults have better immune systems.
According to Ebbing, "Covid toes" were discovered in March by Italian doctors. Once experts were informed of the strange symptom, they began recognising more and more cases in the USA.
Essential coronavirus information
There are two running hypotheses on what could cause "Covid toes." One possible explanation, Ebbing said, is that there is an inflammatory response more localised to a patient's foot and toes. Or it could be a clotting of blood vessels.
"The short answer is nobody knows," he said.
Susan Wilcox, chief of critical care for the emergency department at Massachusetts General Hospital, saw the purple lesions on her most critically ill Covid patients and suspected it was purpura fulminans. This occurs when inflammation from a severe infection causes the body to make micro-clots in tiny blood vessels in the toes, fingers and even nose, she explained.
Wilcox said this is most common in patients who develop acute respiratory distress syndrome, or ARDS, the majority of which die of intense, systematic inflammation.
"You get the infection, and then your body will release a cascade of inflammation," she said. "In many ways, it's beneficial, but then sometimes it can either be too much, so the inflammation can lead to its own damage."
Wilcox said she's seen this happen in cases of viral pneumonia or a bad flu, so it wasn't surprising when she saw it in COvid-19 patients.
While experts learn more about the disease and how it relates to "Covid toes," Ebbing said an abundance of caution and a low bar of suspicion will stop the spread of the coronavirus.
Although patients with "Covid toes" are more likely to test negative for Covid-19, as the virus is in its earliest stages, he said patients should quarantine at home and monitor closely for developing symptoms.
USA Today
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Adrianna Rodriguez12:20, Apr 22 2020
Coronavirus: Concerns Kiwis are getting complacent
The Police have now charged nearly 4000 people with breaching lockdown restrictions, many in last weekend just before the Prime Minister announced the country will move next week to Alert Level 3.
Doctors identified a new symptom of coronavirus, informally dubbed "Covid toes."
The presence of purple or blue lesions on a patient's feet and toes puzzles infectious disease experts.
You must log in or register to see images
NORTHWESTERN
Images showing the progression of "Covid toes" from Northwestern Medicine in the US.
"They're typically painful to touch and could have a hot burning sensation," said Ebbing Lautenbach, chief of infectious disease at the University of Pennsylvania's School of Medicine.
"Covid toes" appear in patients who don't exhibit any other symptoms. Similarly, the loss of taste and smell was found to be associated with Covid-19 among otherwise asymptomatic patients by the American Academy of Otolaryngology Head and Neck Surgery and ENT UK in late March.
READ MORE:
* Why do some people with coronavirus get symptoms while others don't?
* Coronavirus destroys lungs. Now its damage is being found in kidneys & hearts
* Possible coronavirus treatments tested
* How coronavirus impacts children differently from adults
"This is a manifestation that occurs early on in the disease, meaning you have this first, then you progress," Lautenbach said. "Sometimes this might be your first clue that they have Covid when they don't have any other symptoms."
You must log in or register to see images
Dawn Wahezi@DWahezi
https://twitter.com/DWahezi/status/1248804396470804481
Please be aware there are skin signs of covid. Purple red papules on the fingers and toes. Looks like chilblains/ pernio. May have no other covid symptoms. Seen in young people.
Images of pernio like changes of Covid-19 from Italy @TamarPedsRheum @NataliaVasCan @IreneBlancoMD
You must log in or register to see images
https://twitter.com/DWahezi/status/1248804396470804481
"Covid toes" in some people can disappear in the course of a week to 10 days, but others progress to respiratory symptoms, he said.
The new symptom appears in more children and young adults than any other age group. Ebbing suggested this may be because children and young adults have better immune systems.
According to Ebbing, "Covid toes" were discovered in March by Italian doctors. Once experts were informed of the strange symptom, they began recognising more and more cases in the USA.
You must log in or register to see images
You must log in or register to see images
You must log in or register to see images
Essential coronavirus information
You must log in or register to see images
There are two running hypotheses on what could cause "Covid toes." One possible explanation, Ebbing said, is that there is an inflammatory response more localised to a patient's foot and toes. Or it could be a clotting of blood vessels.
"The short answer is nobody knows," he said.
Susan Wilcox, chief of critical care for the emergency department at Massachusetts General Hospital, saw the purple lesions on her most critically ill Covid patients and suspected it was purpura fulminans. This occurs when inflammation from a severe infection causes the body to make micro-clots in tiny blood vessels in the toes, fingers and even nose, she explained.
Wilcox said this is most common in patients who develop acute respiratory distress syndrome, or ARDS, the majority of which die of intense, systematic inflammation.
"You get the infection, and then your body will release a cascade of inflammation," she said. "In many ways, it's beneficial, but then sometimes it can either be too much, so the inflammation can lead to its own damage."
Wilcox said she's seen this happen in cases of viral pneumonia or a bad flu, so it wasn't surprising when she saw it in COvid-19 patients.
While experts learn more about the disease and how it relates to "Covid toes," Ebbing said an abundance of caution and a low bar of suspicion will stop the spread of the coronavirus.
Although patients with "Covid toes" are more likely to test negative for Covid-19, as the virus is in its earliest stages, he said patients should quarantine at home and monitor closely for developing symptoms.
USA Today
Advertise with Stuff
more from stuff
You must log in or register to see images
sponsoredNZ-made natural sunscreen
You must log in or register to see images
sponsoredHas Covid-19 impacted your business?
You must log in or register to see images
Coronavirus: Beware economic recovery being diverted down rabbit holes
You must log in or register to see images
Coronavirus: 'Cartels are scrambling' as Covid-19 hits global drug trade
paid contentabout this content
You must log in or register to see images
Your 2020's Horoscope: So Accurate That It Will Give You GoosebumpsEsmeralda Psychic
You must log in or register to see images
Everyone In New Zealand Is Going Crazy Over This High Speed Wifi Boostertechdiscountdeals.com
You must log in or register to see images
[Pics] We Are Here To Show You The Most Funny Passive-Aggressive Notes Out ThereMy Health Gazette
more from stuff
You must log in or register to see images
sponsoredQuiz: Which series should you binge next?
You must log in or register to see images
Shortlist of best top of south architecture released
You must log in or register to see images
Coronavirus: Families split by Covid-19 border restrictions
Coronavirus is not behaving in the air the way scientists expect
Stuff FibreNeighbourlyDeath NoticesCouponsAdvertisingCareersPrivacy PolicyTerms & ConditionsContact Us
Breaking news?
Send your photos, videos and tip-offs to
[email protected], or call us on 0800 697 8833
© 2020 Stuff Limited
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Herd immunity is a myth, infectious disease experts warn
Helen Pitt and Jenny Noyes12:59, Apr 22 2020
Hot or cold, expert says 'still going to get transmission'
Despite much speculation about whether transmission of the new coronavirus may wane in warmer climates, David Relman, an infectious disease expert at Stanford University, says virus transmission can still occur if people are not careful.
If a country were to lift all restrictions in the pursuit of herd immunity it should expect cycling epidemics of Covid-19, increased absenteeism, and ultimately more deaths, one of Australia's leading pandemic experts has warned.
Infectious disease expert Professor Raina MacIntyre issued the warning on Tuesday in a Covid-19 pandemic update at the University of New South Wales' Kirby Institute – the first to collate data from international medical journals and universities since the disease was identified in Wuhan, China in December 2019.
Professor MacIntyre, who is head of the Biosecurity Research Programme at the institute, spoke of the "myth of herd immunity" – exposing a population to the virus for the purposes of building up natural immunity and sacrificing the vulnerable.
"It does have a connotation of eugenics," she said. "What you will see is a large increase in cases for little gain because probably by the time you get to about 20 to 30 per cent of the population impacted, you'll start putting the brakes on and having more lockdowns because the health system will be too severely impacted.
READ MORE:
* Coronavirus: Dutch embrace 'herd immunity' as UK changes course
* Coronavirus: Herd immunity strategy would be 'catastrophic'
* Expert: Imagine you already have coronavirus
Essential coronavirus information
NZ Covid-19 alert level: 4
Full coverage
"We'll have these cycling epidemics, large proportions of absenteeism from work and see the full spectrum of disease – as has been seen in the US, the UK, Europe and China – which is that you are seeing deaths in children, infants and young people," she said.
"You'll start to see healthcare workers dying as they are dying in those countries ... that will impact your capacity to treat other conditions. If half your workforce is off sick or in quarantine because you're having a massive outbreak in your hospital, you may not be able to get treatment if you turn up with your myocardial infarction," she said.
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Herd immunity is not a strategy the Australian government is pursuing. Instead all states and territories are on a containment or elimination trajectory.
MARK METCALFE/GETTY IMAGES
Medical professionals administer Covid-19 tests at the Bondi Beach drive-through testing centre.
But Professor McIntyre's comments follow days of public debate about whether the economic hardships caused by Australia's current restrictions, implemented to protect the elderly and vulnerable, impact too heavily on the young and healthy.
Professor of Infectious Diseases at Australian National University Peter Collignon said herd immunity in Sweden did not seem to be working, however he did think students should be returning to schools in Australia.
"If this were influenza I'd be closing schools but all the data seems to suggest this infection is very uncommon in the under 15 age group, schools are probably one of the safest workplaces you can go," he said.
"But I am worried about a second wave of infection in winter: in two months we might be seeing a ripple of new infections, not a tsunami," he said.
Associate Professor Adam Kamradt-Scott, at the University of Sydney's Centre for International Security Studies, agreed herd immunity is a risky strategy.
"At the moment we don't know how long the length of immunity is for SARS-CoV-2 will be. We also don't know whether there might be very minor mutations that would see a slightly different strain start to circulate. If that was to occur, we don't know yet whether previous exposure would provide sufficient immunity," he said.
"We are making a lot of educated guesses at the moment based on previous pandemics but the fact is we haven't faced something like this in more than 100 years."
Helen Pitt and Jenny Noyes12:59, Apr 22 2020
Hot or cold, expert says 'still going to get transmission'
Despite much speculation about whether transmission of the new coronavirus may wane in warmer climates, David Relman, an infectious disease expert at Stanford University, says virus transmission can still occur if people are not careful.
If a country were to lift all restrictions in the pursuit of herd immunity it should expect cycling epidemics of Covid-19, increased absenteeism, and ultimately more deaths, one of Australia's leading pandemic experts has warned.
Infectious disease expert Professor Raina MacIntyre issued the warning on Tuesday in a Covid-19 pandemic update at the University of New South Wales' Kirby Institute – the first to collate data from international medical journals and universities since the disease was identified in Wuhan, China in December 2019.
Professor MacIntyre, who is head of the Biosecurity Research Programme at the institute, spoke of the "myth of herd immunity" – exposing a population to the virus for the purposes of building up natural immunity and sacrificing the vulnerable.
"It does have a connotation of eugenics," she said. "What you will see is a large increase in cases for little gain because probably by the time you get to about 20 to 30 per cent of the population impacted, you'll start putting the brakes on and having more lockdowns because the health system will be too severely impacted.
READ MORE:
* Coronavirus: Dutch embrace 'herd immunity' as UK changes course
* Coronavirus: Herd immunity strategy would be 'catastrophic'
* Expert: Imagine you already have coronavirus
You must log in or register to see images
You must log in or register to see images
You must log in or register to see images
Essential coronavirus information
NZ Covid-19 alert level: 4
Full coverage
"We'll have these cycling epidemics, large proportions of absenteeism from work and see the full spectrum of disease – as has been seen in the US, the UK, Europe and China – which is that you are seeing deaths in children, infants and young people," she said.
"You'll start to see healthcare workers dying as they are dying in those countries ... that will impact your capacity to treat other conditions. If half your workforce is off sick or in quarantine because you're having a massive outbreak in your hospital, you may not be able to get treatment if you turn up with your myocardial infarction," she said.
ADVERTISEMENT
Advertise with Stuff
Herd immunity is not a strategy the Australian government is pursuing. Instead all states and territories are on a containment or elimination trajectory.
You must log in or register to see images
MARK METCALFE/GETTY IMAGES
Medical professionals administer Covid-19 tests at the Bondi Beach drive-through testing centre.
But Professor McIntyre's comments follow days of public debate about whether the economic hardships caused by Australia's current restrictions, implemented to protect the elderly and vulnerable, impact too heavily on the young and healthy.
Professor of Infectious Diseases at Australian National University Peter Collignon said herd immunity in Sweden did not seem to be working, however he did think students should be returning to schools in Australia.
"If this were influenza I'd be closing schools but all the data seems to suggest this infection is very uncommon in the under 15 age group, schools are probably one of the safest workplaces you can go," he said.
"But I am worried about a second wave of infection in winter: in two months we might be seeing a ripple of new infections, not a tsunami," he said.
Associate Professor Adam Kamradt-Scott, at the University of Sydney's Centre for International Security Studies, agreed herd immunity is a risky strategy.
"At the moment we don't know how long the length of immunity is for SARS-CoV-2 will be. We also don't know whether there might be very minor mutations that would see a slightly different strain start to circulate. If that was to occur, we don't know yet whether previous exposure would provide sufficient immunity," he said.
"We are making a lot of educated guesses at the moment based on previous pandemics but the fact is we haven't faced something like this in more than 100 years."
You must log in or register to see images
Last edited:
One new death
14 in total
8 of those from same rest home
6 new cases
1451 in total
1036 have recovered
14 in total
8 of those from same rest home
6 new cases
1451 in total
1036 have recovered
Being one of the clique (I assume), I’ll respectfully disagree......
I won’t reply with a ‘Zzzzzzzzzz’, a face slap emoji or call you stupid......I won’t even be condescending......definitely won’t put up yet another mocking meme of a black women either.
I’ll just respectfully disagree.
You misunderstand my point but I think Staines just explained with his answer. The difference of opinion is what makes sites like this work. If you disagree (like you do) be open to a challenge, like the so called clique do, without the need for insult, complaint or ignorance.
What happened to the magic app which is going to help us track everyone that we has the disease, if they have the app?
The Germans are developing one, which makes sense for them as their strategy is trace and isolate, but even they (the Germans!) say it’s a month away.
The Germans are developing one, which makes sense for them as their strategy is trace and isolate, but even they (the Germans!) say it’s a month away.
Hi Stan
I am using an app, it is nowhere near the one that the Germans are planning, but it is informative. It is developed by Kings College and called "C-19 COVID symptom Tracker", I downloaded it from App store free. It was recommended by NIHR and BBRC. Every day you just put in if you have had symptoms, have you had a test etc. Takes less than a minute.
It has nearly 3 million users and it will sort of spot where people are showing symptoms, even if they are not going to hospital. It has a location tracker...and tells me how many of the people in my area (admittedly only those who are using the tracker though) are symptomatic.
To my, stupid mind, it would not take much to be able to take people who are symptomatic/virus positive and use their phones to see where they have been
The FT has a free to read story (the cynic in me wonders why?)
Coronavirus death toll in UK twice as high as official figure | Free to read
https://www.ft.com/content/67e6a4ee-3d05-43bc-ba03-e239799fa6ab
I have just watched Morgan rip a new one into the Care Minister over testing and care home death figures.
Coronavirus death toll in UK twice as high as official figure | Free to read
https://www.ft.com/content/67e6a4ee-3d05-43bc-ba03-e239799fa6ab
I have just watched Morgan rip a new one into the Care Minister over testing and care home death figures.
Matt Hancock will have some explaining to do. Apparently yesterday they tested 12,000 less than last week and already they are starting to changing the wording of the 100,000 a day. 
What did I say at the time... quote a low figure and if you do more then fab stuff.
What did I say at the time... quote a low figure and if you do more then fab stuff.
1) if your mind is stupid we are truly doomed
2) that app seems to be exactly what the govt/NHS are talking about, I wonder why they don’t just publicise it and put some more weight behind it? I’ll download it.
There is an odd ‘not invented here’ syndrome going on, I also heard that Apple and Google we’re working together to develop something similar, and I think the South Koreans and Chinese (though obviously we don’t want theirs) already have something similar. Why is everyone inventing their own thing, unless it’s about different privacy standards.
The BBC More or Less Programme on the radio at the moment. Some statisticians from Oxford (I think) saying that the peak deaths day was 8 April, at around 800, and since then there has been a slow decline down to about 700 they think - these figures are different to the ones announced daily because the daily ones are not just the actual deaths from the previous 24 hours, they are the deaths recorded in the last 24 hours which included deaths from previous days and sometimes weeks ago. Apparently the government has only just caught on about this. But it would tally with the intended effect of the lockdown in about the right timescales.
Good that the crappy graphs show us tracking, meaninglessly, below France. Though just heard it confirmed that the French figures include deaths outside hospital. I think we have all agreed that these graphs are pure propaganda.
Nightingale hospital in London opened on 7 April. So far it has treated about 41 people, with 30 still on site, 7 discharged to other settings and 4 deaths. About 50 patients, all of whom had been intubated and were on ventilation, have been turned away because the Nightingale had insufficient staff to care for them. There has been a genuine lack of demand as the expected regular tripling in rates of infection just hasn’t happened, and expanded critical care in regular hospitals plus cancellation of just about all their regular treatment has worked, together with (I think) protocols restricting access. Really redundant of me to add any comment, source The Times, although I would say that if the facility didn’t exist we would be screaming about it.
Last edited:
Matt Hancock will have some explaining to do. Apparently yesterday they tested 12,000 less than last week and already they are starting to changing the wording of the 100,000 a day.
What did I say at the time... quote a low figure and if you do more then fab stuff.
'Handjob' living up to his name it seems. Trying to impress the media hounds can only end one way, they're never satisfied...
Just seen the care minister on tv. These ministers are just so out of their depth. Inexperienced 'yes boris' people.
If people want to knock the government this is the perfect time to and justifiable. He bowed to pressure from the media and gave himself a ridiculous target. He may be one minister who loses his head after this.
Sir Simon McDonald from the Foreign Office is also in the doo doo with this PPE scheme. 2 conflicting stories here. He will be gone as well. I don't know who to believe.
Throw in Whatley's comments about the bad tests and PMQ's will be fun today.
I think there have been ample opportunities to knock the government up to date. Today is just another day to do so. Absolute incompetence. Do we still have a prime minister? I've forgotten.