Off Topic Climate Change & Nature thread

[lardiman]

Shock horror!

We're having a fairly normal January.
Looks like there will be no upcoming announcements that it will be the (insert word here)-est January for 200 years.
It's cold, damp, cloudy and generally grim. With the odd bit of sunshine occasionally.

Could this herald a non-record breaking year for British weather?

 

[Ubedizzytoo]

There simply isn’t a climate emergency or climate crisis. It’s the world’s biggest ever con, designed to make very rich people very, very rich.

Yes, the climate is changing as it has done since time began (when was that BTW ?) but it isn’t an emergency.

Last year saw global temperatures DROP and personally I’m saving a fortune this winter not having to have the heating on constantly. Long may that continue.

The human population will be decimated by other means, long before climate change does it.

 

[lardiman]

I'm pretty sure some will disagree - the essence of healthy and free debate.

Either way, the inclusion of the word 'crisis' adds a little punch thread title

 

[Ubedizzytoo]

I'm pretty sure some will disagree - the essence of healthy and free debate.

Either way, the inclusion of the word 'crisis' adds a little punch thread title

Indeed. The words ‘crisis’ and ‘emergency’ are what I don’t agree with and not the fact that global temperatures have seen a rise in very recent years. The earth has been much hotter in the past and much colder in the past, long before humans had ANY impact on it whatsoever. And the obsession with carbon is weird. Carbon is carbon, it’s always existed and there’s always been the same quantity on earth, albeit in different forms. We can neither create more, nor destroy carbon.

 

[The Penguin]

Indeed. The words ‘crisis’ and ‘emergency’ are what I don’t agree with and not the fact that global temperatures have seen a rise in very recent years. The earth has been much hotter in the past and much colder in the past, long before humans had ANY impact on it whatsoever. And the obsession with carbon is weird. Carbon is carbon, it’s always existed and there’s always been the same quantity on earth, albeit in different forms. We can neither create more, nor destroy carbon.

It's quite simple really. Carbon is a greenhouse gas, and we are taking it out of the ground and putting it up in the air. The evidence is so overwhelming, but I wish I was in denial. If you don't believe the scientific evidence you aren't going to believe me, but I do envy those who think the scientific research is wrong nand Trump is right.

 

[Ubedizzytoo]

It's quite simple really. Carbon is a greenhouse gas, and we are taking it out of the ground and putting it up in the air. The evidence is so overwhelming, but I wish I was in denial. If you don't believe the scientific evidence you aren't going to believe me, but I do envy those who think the scientific research is wrong nand Trump is right.

I agree with that, although carbon isn’t a greenhouse gas as it isn’t a gas, but that’s being pedantic and I do understand what you are actually saying. Quite frankly the facts are not reasonably deniable in respect of us burning fossil fuels. BUT originally the carbon wasn’t solid and enclosed in trees, plants, oil, coal etc etc. It only became so over endless millennia and yes, we are now burning the fossil fuels and releasing the carbon back into the atmosphere.

My contention is that that does not make it an emergency or a crisis and yet if you express that view you are labelled as a ‘climate change denier’ as though the terms ‘emergency’ and ‘crisis’ are incontrovertibly accurate.

The human race will adapt one way or another to changes in the earth’s climate but I personally don’t want to see my current way of life or all the improvements we’ve made as a race, changed for the worse because of someone else’s opinion that we should stop using fossil fuels before we have a viable alternative.

Viable, reliable alternatives may exist in the future but at the moment they don’t so we need to reduce where we can, but not destroy all the progress we have made over the last few centuries.

I’m not disputing the facts you present

@lardiman a very good debate opening thread title Sir - I hope the replies remain respectful and polite.

 

[Smudger603]

It's quite simple really. Carbon is a greenhouse gas, and we are taking it out of the ground and putting it up in the air. The evidence is so overwhelming, but I wish I was in denial. If you don't believe the scientific evidence you aren't going to believe me, but I do envy those who think the scientific research is wrong nand Trump is right.

Trump , with a couple of others , is someone I’d like to see carbonised

 

[Watameire]

Biggest crisis on the planet is overpopulation.

 

[The Penguin]

I agree with that, although carbon isn’t a greenhouse gas as it isn’t a gas, but that’s being pedantic and I do understand what you are actually saying. Quite frankly the facts are not reasonably deniable in respect of us burning fossil fuels. BUT originally the carbon wasn’t solid and enclosed in trees, plants, oil, coal etc etc. It only became so over endless millennia and yes, we are now burning the fossil fuels and releasing the carbon back into the atmosphere.

My contention is that that does not make it an emergency or a crisis and yet if you express that view you are labelled as a ‘climate change denier’ as though the terms ‘emergency’ and ‘crisis’ are incontrovertibly accurate.

The human race will adapt one way or another to changes in the earth’s climate but I personally don’t want to see my current way of life or all the improvements we’ve made as a race, changed for the worse because of someone else’s opinion that we should stop using fossil fuels before we have a viable alternative.

Viable, reliable alternatives may exist in the future but at the moment they don’t so we need to reduce where we can, but not destroy all the progress we have made over the last few centuries.

I’m not disputing the facts you present

@lardiman a very good debate opening thread title Sir - I hope the replies remain respectful and polite.

The trouble is, it's on a slow burner, and even if we stopped emitting C02 today the warming effect would continue. It was first predicted by a French scientist during the industrial revolution, although it didn't enter the public arena until the early 1980's. In the next few years several newspapers, including the Daily Mail (twice) the Guardian (twice) and the Independant as it was had special Armageddon issues warning about it. Unfortunately it became a political issue, and I think in 1992 it was America (4% population, 25% emissions then) under W Bush which refused to cut emissions, and emerging nations like India and China understandably said well why should we make any sacrifices. The end result is that the human race has collectively decided to go ahead and burn every ounce of fossil fuel. It's unstoppable, and is only in the very early stages. The oceans have absorbed a lot of the heat, which has slowed it down, but all the cod and herring that used to be in our waters has migrated north, so we have to buy it from Norway. Red Mullet has arrived from further south, and is quite tasty, but too bony for my liking.

 

[Ubedizzytoo]

The trouble is, it's on a slow burner, and even if we stopped emitting C02 today the warming effect would continue. It was first predicted by a French scientist during the industrial revolution, although it didn't enter the public arena until the early 1980's. In the next few years several newspapers, including the Daily Mail (twice) the Guardian (twice) and the Independant as it was had special Armageddon issues warning about it. Unfortunately it became a political issue, and I think in 1992 it was America (4% population, 25% emissions then) under W Bush which refused to cut emissions, and emerging nations like India and China understandably said well why should we make any sacrifices. The end result is that the human race has collectively decided to go ahead and burn every ounce of fossil fuel. It's unstoppable, and is only in the very early stages. The oceans have absorbed a lot of the heat, which has slowed it down, but all the cod and herring that used to be in our waters has migrated north, so we have to buy it from Norway. Red Mullet has arrived from further south, and is quite tasty, but too bony for my liking.

I’m not as well versed in the history of this as your good self, but fundamentally don’t disagree with any of that again.

It’s just to me a ‘crisis’ or ‘emergency’ is something much closer in terms of time (like the impact of mass migration into our country). The potentially devastating effects of climate change may or may not happen in the future. No one really knows what will happen to the world and what changes both good and bad might come along and humans do have a unique ability to adapt and innovate.

So we are probably agreeing on the ‘facts’ relating to burning fossil fuels, we just have a different outlook on the inevitability of it being a huge disaster for the human race.

Personally I am more fearful of World War Three (which will be far, far worse than anything which has come before), anarchy and the breakdown of law and order in the UK and the threat from a more devastating viral or bacterial pandemic. I think all three of those are far more imminent than a climate catastrophe.

Jeez. Anyone got any sturdy rope ?

 

[lardiman]

Biggest crisis on the planet is overpopulation.

Not in China so I hear.

Their population is falling.
I was also under the impression that the native UK population birth rate is now under 2 per couple.
Meaning our historically indigenous population is also falling.

Come on the rest of the World!
We're doing our bit.
Pull you finger (and other things) out

 

[Ubedizzytoo]

Not in China so I hear.

Their population is falling.
I was also under the impression that the native UK population birth rate is now under 2 per couple.
Meaning our historically indigenous population is also falling.

Come on the rest of the World!
We're doing our bit.
Pull you finger (and other things) out

Don’t worry, the scum of the earth are more than happy to increase our population in the UK. And they’re making a jolly good job of it.

 

[Watameire]

Interesting stat / projection for you:

By mid-century (around 2050), about one in every 13 of the world’s babies is projected to be born in Nigeria. That’s ~7-8%.

That’s down to high fertility rates and a young population

 

[Watameire]

To show the source - that’s According to UNICEF population projections

 

[Watameire]

Rank​	Country​	Approx. Annual Births (2050)​
1	India	~19.0 million
2	Nigeria	~8.1 million
3	Pakistan	~7.5 million
4	China	~7.4 million
5	Democratic Republic of the Congo	~6.3 million

 

[Watameire]

So I take that back re Nigeria - check out India

 

[TwoWrights]

Interesting stat / projection for you:

By mid-century (around 2050), about one in every 13 of the world’s babies is projected to be born in Nigeria. That’s ~7-8%.

That’s down to high fertility rates and a young population

Well, there's rather a lot of uncles there.


The views expressed in my posts are not necessarily mine.

 

[lardiman]

I imagine several of those Countries sadly have very high infant mortality rates as well.

I'm only guessing, but I suspect infant mortality in China has got very much lower over recent decades, as more of that Country moves from a rural to suburban lifestyle. As many more become what we would call 'middle class'.
As the survival rate & healthcare of children advances, so the birth rate will decline.

The middle classes of Planet Earth don't need to have large families.
I should think Population decline almost always goes hand in hand with better quality of life and better healthcare.

Logically then, better living standards & healthcare for everyone will solve the overpopulation issue Globally.
So the poorest, most deprived parts of the World should be helped (through fair trade & infrastructure investment) to catch up with more developed regions.
That's a better alternative in my view than just exploiting those poorest Countries in order to be able to buy cheap clothes & other stuff online.

 

[The Penguin]

I imagine those Countries sadly have very high infant mortality rates as well.

I'm only guessing, but I suspect infant mortality in China has got very much lower over recent decades, as more of that Country moves from a rural to suburban lifestyle. As many more become what we would call 'middle class'.
As the survival rate & healthcare of children advances, so the birth rate will decline.

The middle classes of Planet Earth don't need to have large families.
I should think Population decline almost always goes hand in hand with better quality of life and better healthcare.

Having kids isn't affordable for many young couples especially with property prices. And buying is the only secure way of getting a home.

Shock horror!

We're having a fairly normal January.
Looks like there will be no upcoming announcements that it will be the (insert word here)-est January for 200 years.
It's cold, damp, cloudy and generally grim. With the odd bit of sunshine occasionally.

Could this herald a non-record breaking year for British weather?

We need all this rain, and a lot more in spring after last summer's low rainfall. Bewl Water has been getting lower and lower. The South-East seems to have it's own micro-climate recently. Have you noticed in the weather charts how the rain often sweeps in from the Atlantic, gets halfway across England then hangs a left and heads North?

 

[TwoWrights]

Have you noticed in the weather charts how the rain often sweeps in from the Atlantic, gets halfway across England then hangs a left and heads North?

Our cunning plan worked.


The views expressed in my posts are not necessarily mine.