Charlton v Millwall...updates & post match comments
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Vol and Typical, making Jonathan Acworth look like he knows what he is on about on a daily basis
Which evidence have you given me that a SIGNIFICANT number of Charlton fans like and support Chris Powell because he is black?
I have never said a word about whether or not Charlton fans are fickle. In an argument about whether or not Powell's race is a factor in the fans' opinions of him, surely Alan Curbishley is irrelevant?
'I have read all the gushing sweaty nonsense on CL and it is clear to me that you dare say a word against CP and your worse than than Nick griffin' - that's an exaggeration at best, simply wrong at worst,and you know it. Plenty of people on there have criticised Chris Powell, not just after Saturday but on other occasions as well, without being demonised.
Everyone wants Chris Powell to do well whilst he is manager, because that means Charlton will do well. I am suggesting that Powell's skin colour is not a major factor in most Charlton fans' perception of him; if he is a good role model for black players thinking about going into management then great, but that is not the main reason why we support him. We support him because of his good record as Charlton manager.
@ Captain
I gave you the example of the CL clown who posted "isn't it great that all of our backroom staff are black". You claimed that was just one fan ! How else do you explain the rank odorous double standards of fans like you and our friend Jimmy, when it comes to judging CP as a manager ? Club legend ? Did you feel the same about Steve Gritt ? Affinity with our fans ? Keith Peacock has been around far longer. Proud he got England caps, then ? F..k me....did you give an honorary knighthood to Alan Mullery too, when he was our gaffer ? Of course not.
Its actually far worse than racism IMO. Its patronising middle class guilt, no different to when you walk past a black man on the street and silently think " thank God he didn't rob me"
I gave you the example of the CL clown who posted "isn't it great that all of our backroom staff are black". You claimed that was just one fan ! How else do you explain the rank odorous double standards of fans like you and our friend Jimmy, when it comes to judging CP as a manager ? Club legend ? Did you feel the same about Steve Gritt ? Affinity with our fans ? Keith Peacock has been around far longer. Proud he got England caps, then ? F..k me....did you give an honorary knighthood to Alan Mullery too, when he was our gaffer ? Of course not.
Its actually far worse than racism IMO. Its patronising middle class guilt, no different to when you walk past a black man on the street and silently think " thank God he didn't rob me"
"rank odorous double standards"
"patronising middle class guilt"
Got your flow today, then V-a-V?
"patronising middle class guilt"
Got your flow today, then V-a-V?
You provided 1 quote. So I'm not claiming it's just 1 fan. It is 1 fan. If you can find thousands more (a SIGNIFICANT number), then I will accept that a significant number of Charlton fans support Powell thanks to his skin colour. Until then, the only conclusion is that Charlton fans support Chris Powell thanks to his record with us, as you can see on here and on CL.
Yes, what are our double standards?
Steve Gritt and Keith Peacock are both Charlton legends. Why would anyone think otherwise? Powell is too, thanks to his 250+ appearances for the club, most of which were in the top flight, and now his tremendous first 2 full seasons as manager. Do you think Powell doesn't have an affinity with the fans? I while ago I mentioned the interview he gave at Carlisle, where you can see the tears in his eyes. There are his speeches at the Player Of The Year dinners for the past two years as well that are worth watching if you doubt his affinity for the club and the fans (they are available, if not online then on the Season Review DVDs).
Alan Mullery is a rubbish comparison. Charlton fans are proud of Chris Powell's England caps because he won them while he was a Charlton player. Unlike Mullery, who won all his at Spurs. More importantly, Mullery was manager for one season (81/82) in the second tier and we finished 13th, so his record as Charlton manager is not as good as Powell's.
Your last paragraph WOULD be a good point, IF you could prove that that is what Charlton fans are doing. The onus is on you to prove it, and 1 quote is not enough I'm afraid.
Powell is not an after dinner speaker or a tear jerking media performer, he is a football manager. Currently, he is a very unsuccessful one. When we look at his record, who gives a toss if he cried in a speech
I felt like crying when I saw his team's "performance" v Millwall.
This is starting to remind me of the era of that arch snide thespian Tony Blair, who also emoted on demand but was incapable of seeing the big picture.
V-a-V: You may or may not like to have a look on your favourite forum, CL. Their is a thread "Powell's football is terrible", which is far more sympathetic to your opinion than most on this forum.
While I disagree with quite a lot of what v-a-v has to say on ere, you must admit it's a lot livelier now (our dreadfull form may be playing a part in that). Just gonna repeat that for me saturday's naff performance and defeat goes to the door of CP for poor tactics and being agonisingly slow and cumbersome in changing a por team. Does'nt mean I want him out (I don't) but the old crack about him being a young manager learning from his mistakes is starting to sound a bit thin. He badly needs to get a decent starting line up and result from Burnley.
Powell is not an after dinner speaker or a tear jerking media performer, he is a football manager. Currently, he is a very unsuccessful one. When we look at his record, who gives a toss if he cried in a speech
I felt like crying when I saw his team's "performance" v Millwall.
This is starting to remind me of the era of that arch snide thespian Tony Blair, who also emoted on demand but was incapable of seeing the big picture.
Er, no. 2 brilliant seasons and an uncertain start to the 3rd does not make him unsuccessful.
I mentioned the interview and his speeches as evidence of his affinity for the club and the fans, which you had doubted in your previous post.
Any chance of you supplying sufficient evidence to support your claim that a major reason for Charlton fans' backing for Chris Powell is down to his skin colour, like I asked? If not, please drop it.
And again: what are these double standards some fans apply when judging Chris Powell?
When I look at last season's ninth place finish, I can't help thinking that we were really lucky and that perhaps CP had found a patch of four-leaf clovers in his garden.
Wolves - Last minute winner.
Leeds - Last minute winner.
Bristol City - Already doomed.
Barnsley - Freak result.
Middlesbrough - Chucked away a two-nil lead.
Bolton - Tide turned after the sending off.
The home form for the majority of the season was awful: Ipswich, Middlesbrough, Sheffield Wednesday, Burnley, Barnsley.
Cardiff - Freak result.
In my mind, we could so easily have been relegated.
When we won League One, we had the best squad by a mile and rightly ran away with the title, but there were still some really stinky results and performances.
I sincerely hope CP stays and gets better as a manager, but I don't think he will.
Why are last minute winners lucky?
Playing a side already relegated isn't always a good thing - Bristol City could have played with much greater freedom. We thumped them.
A freak result, helped no doubt by the 2 men they had sent off, but we were already 2 and then 4-0 up by then. A brilliant away performance.
We were back in the Bolton game already at 2-1 before they had their first red card.
We also got 2 highly creditable draws at Cardiff and Brighton, most notable for superb defensive and goalkeeping displays.
Our home form was indeed awful for the most part, but our away form was superb. Why do you ignore that?
Why is the Cardiff game a freak result? It took incredible character from the staff and players to recover from 2-0 down (after a 4-1 defeat at home to Middlesbrough a few days before) to score 5 against the eventual champions. That is something the crowd helped with as well, a support which I doubt any other manager than Chris Powell could have engendered.
Pretty much any team in the Championship could so easily be relegated - I don't think Wolves had one of the worst 3 squads in the division for instance, but disastrous management from Solbakken and then Saunders did for them. The fact is, we weren't relegated, and indeed finished just 3 points off a play-off spot.
We had the best squad in League 1 because Powell and his staff spent the latter part of the 10/11 season scouting the right players to get us out of the league. In the Summer Powell got rid of all the deadwood (including the tough decision to let fans' favourite Semedo go, which proved a good one) to free up funds to sign a team that blended straight away and seldom looked like messing promotion up, rendering the losing mentality a thing of the past. That is superb management.
I'm with Captain on this one Ponders...
Manpoo United under Fergie grabbed last minute winners on a regular basis. Does that mean they're lucky, or merely committed by playing right the way through Fergie time until the final whistle...?
In the wacky world of the Championship there's no such thing as a freak result. On any given day the team at the bottom is well capable of turning over whoever may be in top spot. That's just the nature of the beast.
Is Powell the answer... ask me again at Christmas.
I'm pleased my last post garnered such an avid response. I wanted to create a bit more football debate, and that has surely happened.
For the most part, Captain and Franco, I agree with your excellent points. You also highlight how knife-edge-like the Championship can be, and that has sort of vindicated my point about how our season could have gone either way. However, you have assuaged my doubts and I now accept that our success was down to superb management, not luck.
As I can't attend too many away matches, I tend to focus on what I see with my own eyes at The Valley, and for the most part we were awful. Of course I rejoiced in our brilliant away wins and draws, but it's not the same as actually being there and seeing it happen.
I suppose I'm one of those 'glass half empty' guys for the most part, so I applaud and admire your unfailing belief in CP.
For the most part, Captain and Franco, I agree with your excellent points. You also highlight how knife-edge-like the Championship can be, and that has sort of vindicated my point about how our season could have gone either way. However, you have assuaged my doubts and I now accept that our success was down to superb management, not luck.
As I can't attend too many away matches, I tend to focus on what I see with my own eyes at The Valley, and for the most part we were awful. Of course I rejoiced in our brilliant away wins and draws, but it's not the same as actually being there and seeing it happen.
I suppose I'm one of those 'glass half empty' guys for the most part, so I applaud and admire your unfailing belief in CP.
I'd be a lot more in the pro-CP camp if he'd signed a new contract. It's the elephant in the room.