Brownie without Duffen

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Amin Arrears

Amin Arrears

Well-Known Member
Jan 24, 2011
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The moon
Now this isn't a clutching at straws kind of article, and I know that it's all in the past and means nothing before you start saying 'pointless article'. But I just had a thought at how Brownie would have done without Duffen ahead of him. We know alot of the signings were influenced by Duffen getting to fill his pockets with coin, he was also media mad and I think helped turn Phil into the egotistical media junkie he became.

Now what if he'd had someone sensible ahead of him like AP when we got promoted. I reckon we would have got a few different transfer targets and Brown would have done things completely different, there would have been no naughty step, half time pitch talks and all that. He probably would have had alot more respect from the players too, and obviously we'd never have ended up in financial difficulties (but that's not what I'm getting at)

The questions I find myself asking is would we have stayed up the first season? And if so do you reckon we'd still be there now? Would we have done better? And most importantly would PB still be with us? Also do you think the club would be in a better position going forwards?

Like I said before this isn't clutching at straws, I for one believe we are better off now with things turning out how they did, we now have a top class management team, a fresh young, hungry squad and enthusiastic, sensible and passionate owners. I think I'm actually more excited about how things are looking for the future now then when we first got promoted.
 
I put something similar on the old 606, saying if when Bartlett had bought the club he'd kept Pearson as the chairman rather than bringing in Duffen how would we have done.

What you've got is the 2nd part of that, the first part was that AP has said that he wouldn't have taken the risk of signing players like Okocha and Pedersen.

I don't think there's any doubt things would have been done differently in the PL, the question is would we have got there in the first place had we not been prepared to take the gambles we did with the wage budget.
 
I appreciate that point Ricardo and thought of that myself many a time before, but purposely avoided bringing it up as I just wanted to know how everyone else thought we'd have coped when in the premier league, without sparking off a debate about whether we'd even be there ot not. I remember reading your thread I think, or at least debating about whether we'd have got there or not, so I was interested to find out what people would think about the next part, just assuming we would have got promoted.
 
I think that it mattered not who was in charge, 2 seasons in the top flight was a good innings. Yes there were plenty of decisions we would all have made differently, but over the course of 38 games we ended up were we deserved to - just good enough first season, not good enough the second. I can see us having similar fortunes to WBA have had over the last 6 or so seasons. PB did his best with what he had, and what he bought. Do we think he'd have bought that differently (and I mean quality, not names) if we'd had a different chairman ? Limitations will always be reached, despite who we look at to blame for them.
 
We can only speculate, but the one thing I do Know is the club will have learnt from the previous mistakes and will become stronger in the long run. (I damn well hope so)

Owners, managers, players come and go. Fans are for life, sometimes it's like watching a plane crash that's about to happen and your helpless to prevent it.

You have to take the rough with the smooth.

Wembley was pretty smooth, but there has been plenty of rough both before and after.
 
We'd have never reached the Premier League with Adam Pearson here, he has no ambition for this club to be anything other than a midtable Championship side.
 
I think if Jimmy Bullard had played for us for the time we were in the Prem, we would be there still.

I also think the Michael Turner incident was pivotal in our demise happening at the time that it did and for the pathetic financial compensation that it was.

Bullard's injury was unlucky and and Turner's pathetic sale was financial and neither were under the control of Phil Brown.
 
TWF said:
We'd have never reached the Premier League with Adam Pearson here, he has no ambition for this club to be anything other than a midtable Championship side.
Click to expand...


Absolute rubbish. You have no idea what you are talking about.

The only thing Adam Pearson lacks is enough money, in terms of gaining promotion to the Premier League, and that was why he left.
 
TWF said:
We'd have never reached the Premier League with Adam Pearson here, he has no ambition for this club to be anything other than a midtable Championship side.
Click to expand...

The only think AP lacked was the willingness to gamble the entire existence of the club on getting to and staying in the Premier League. Someone else was happy to do this and if it wasn't for the Allams the club could have gone out of business.
 
I hold Duffen responsible for Brownie losing the plot, if it wasn't for the relationship between those two, things would never have got so out of hand.

Pearson is definitely more cautious and I can understand why people say we would never have got promoted in the first place if he had stayed in charge. That fact is though, he never actually owned the club, it was never his money and it's the owner who determines what more is made available. He may not have brought in players like Okocha and Pedersen, so may not have taken us up, we'll never know.

What we can see now though, is that when he does have an owner investing money, he does a good job of spending it and I feel more confident of achieving promotion now, than I did when Bartlett came in.
 
originallambrettaman said:
I hold Duffen responsible for Brownie losing the plot, if it wasn't for the relationship between those two, things would never have got so out of hand.

Pearson is definitely more cautious and I can understand why people say we would never have got promoted in the first place if he had stayed in charge. That fact is though, he never actually owned the club, it was never his money and it's the owner who determines what more is made available. He may not have brought in players like Okocha and Pedersen, so may not have taken us up, we'll never know.

What we can see now though, is that when he does have an owner investing money, he does a good job of spending it and I feel more confident of achieving promotion now, than I did when Bartlett came in.
Click to expand...

I've said this before on other forums but there was a very telling interview Brownie did at the end of last season.

Someone asked him that as he was known to have a close relationship with the Chairman, and this included their families going out to dinner together, whether he thought this relationship was inappropriate (between a a Chairman and a Manager).

His response was that it is sometimes difficult to say "No" to your boss.

I think that sums the whole situation up very well.

I hold Duffen responsible for our Premier League demise, because he was responsible. Allowing (or even being the driving force behind) an uncomfortably close relationship with the manager was under his control.

As for the money element and who creamed what off what deal, allegedly, who was it that the Club started to take legal preceedings with? If they had the fortitude to take a writ out against Duffen, why would they choose not to against Brownie, if they believed him guilty of any inpropriety?
 
Duffen screwed up the finances and Brown was forced into selling Turner at less than half price.. Turner was our lynchpin and has only been replaced recently by Gerrard (still a loanee).. Without Turner we fell apart at the back.

But yes, we wouldn't have been there without the risk-taking.. We'd never have experienced all those highs.. what is really amazing is how well and efficiently AP & NP have turned us round from a nailed-on administration/League 1 side to a side full of young talent... froma team that couldn't win away for over a full season to a team that can't be beaten away!

Our current team give or take a few names such as Turner, Geovanni & Hunt is better than the PL one..

If we continue on the current path we have an excellent chance to gpo back & in better hands.. (i'm not saying necessarily this season)
 
To say AP has not ambition for the club is stupid, if he didn't would we sign a couple of forwards, Belaid and the likes of Chester and Evans. Would we still have a very large wage budget for this division, or would we continue cutting more and more as we don't need to get promoted. AP clearly knows there is a chance to get this club to the PL and he will no doubt be trying his hardest to get there!
 
I agree with everyone holding Duffen responsible for corrupting Brown. Brown is one of those people who needs someone to keep holding him firmly on the ground or he takes off like a helium balloon. The main problem was Duffen was a helium balloon too and they both went floating off together. Now I don't know how things would have panned out but I'm not sure I'd have wanted anything to be any different, as I think we're now in the best position with the strongest foundation I've ever witnessed the club in in my life time.

Maybe if we think of a few more recent could have been changes, if either AP had left Brown til the end or the season and kept us up or Dowie managed to pull off the impossible, would AP still have appointed our new management team?

Possibly, I think if Brown had kept us up he still would have gone at the end of the season and AP may or may not have appointed Nige and crew, there would have been a few more possibilities in the PL. If Dowie kept us up, I think we'd be looking forwards to watching the following team getting trounced on Saturday:

Duke
McShane Zayatte Gardener Dawson
Garcia Marney Ashbee Kilbane
Folan Cullen

In fact thinking of that team, it made me wonder what would Dowie have been capable of with a transfer budget? Phew, glad we got relegated, dodged a .50 cal bullet with that one...
 
All of the above points make good reading and in most cases are valid, but I find dwelling on the past a little tiresome now.
It is almost like saying "what if I had won the lottery on Saturday?".
The premier League trip was a fantastic time in our history. The Brown/Duffen saga was one of our worst moments (from a financial aspect).
That said, none of us are Leeds fans, so why do we spend our time re-living the past?
Lets look to our new owners, management team and exciting squad, safely in the knowledge the we WILL make the EPL again (may be, may be not this season) and be more financially astute in our dealings when we do reach the promised land again!
I will give PB a warm welcome (as I will with Ashbee) on Saturday, but as soon as that whistle blows, they are history and as far as I am concerned the opposing team, so will be abused as and when necessary.
Anyone who doesn't like that who sits near me (E6) can kiss my ass!
UTT
 
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