Bristol arena

But the difference is that St David's is a hundred or so yds away. The Bristol Carparks are 20/30 mins walk and at night and in the rain? This whole project illustrates the problem the Council has. On one side people moan about no facilities and also a crap transport system. So when they try to build a new arena they have to consider its affect on the already bad transport problem. They cant win. The out of town option makes sense but then people moan about the green belt. I would also like someone to explain the political argument theory. The committee is multi party so who are they trying to embarrass . The Mayor? . If so to what object. I have been to many council meetings and while I may disagree with their decisions I have always found the process democratic.

 

Aren't they building the arena a 100 or so yards away and developing that area so it is an attractive place to visit which you can hardly claim it is now, the intention (I assume) was to mirror the Cardiff example. One of the reasons it was chosen to be built where it is?

The proposal has been on the agenda for literally years and they suddenly decide to hold it up due to a lack of a parking / transport. wasn't the inclusion of a large car park at the arena the cause for the delay, yet you're suggesting the local people are the ones affected by a lack of parking? I agree that lots of traffic would be pulled in the area during times of use, what I find amazing are people are surprised by that. it was obvious from day one.

It seems simple to me, provide a fluid transport system that has the ability to cope with peak demands and people won't chose to sit in the (already horrendous) traffic that is already there. that is something that could be sorted whilst the Arena is being built and to be honest should already have been addressed! (long ago)

The problem in Bristol is in your post 'democratic process' this equals, lets find a problem and all chip in our different agendas to stop anything good happening because we like the sound of our own voices.

The majority of people in Bristol want a 'can do' attitude from our leaders. (like Cardiff, who everyone loves to compare) but we only get a 'can't do'. Sprinkle that with a little common sense and a joined up transport policy and we might get a few things done.

 

You seem to be finding an excuse not to build it. The goverment and doctors are pushing for people to get fit so 20/30 minutes walk doesn't seem to bad does it? As long as there are disabled and drop off points then it's covered.
Cardiff ok is in a better locality due to parking and links available. But given that the parking is only designated for shoppers in Cardiff then extra 75k should create havoc but it doesn't. Why because people use trains and they will with the arena. Trust me if great western or arriva trains can fill trains they will put more on because when they ain't in use they are not making money.
I've been to various arenas and stadiums that parking could be classed as an issue but forward planning on public transport always gets around it.
Went to the Ricoh for a Coldplay concert and was told by locals. Restaurants make money due to influx of crowd, taxis make money to ferry people from restaurants to the venue, newsagents make money to sell their goods to people on the way to venue. It's all knock on effects to small businesses that will happen.
But if you continue to make excuses and hold it up I'm afraid that Bristol will be well behind other city's.

 

I am not making excuses I am trying to understand what has happened and why. I understand the bit about cars and sustainability but one also has to consider the finances of the Arena itself i.e. who pays for it and how will it make a profit and not involve tax payers money. That to me means bums on seats and getting people there. They should know the demographics i.e. where will they come from or do they . If it cant make a profit why build it. I believe in Cardiff they received a lot of Welsh Development Agency money ? so it was subsidised. We all moan about councillors yet criticise them when they do their job. I cannot see how anyone will gain from a contrived./political delay. Why would they do it? We moan when they impose RPZs and moan when they delay things. Councils may be a pain in the ass but they are democratically elected

 

But if you continue to make excuses and hold it up I'm afraid that Bristol will be well behind other city's.

Bristol is already WAY behind most progressive cities and has been for years and years.

Look at the things we don't have

1) A truly international airport that is connected to the rest of the world.
2) No modern concert venue.
3) Poor and hugely congested roads into the city that were built for life 100 years ago and haven't really moved on ever since. Allied with traffic management whose only solution is either 'build another pointless roundabout', or 'put up some more pointless traffic lights' or the greatest insult of all which is 'build another pointless roundabout with more pointless traffic lights'
4) Major hassles and costly delays when anything like a new stadium is ever suggested.
5) No speedway team despite the sport being hugely popular in the 1950's, 1960's and late 1970's and regularly getting crowds in excess of 10,000
6) Broadmead shopping being run into the ground by poor parking and high rents.
7) Costly and unreliable public transport.
8) No light rail transport links that have been talked about for decades.

The one thing that was good and did alleviate the traffic centrally to a degree was the temporary flyover at Temple Meads.
And look what happened to that....

Bristol has got so much going for it, but is badly let down by all of the above, and having a twat of a Mayor.

 

Don't agree with quite everything you say there but decent post. Sums up the general feeling quite well.

 

Supposing everything you say is correct what is the answer?. Councils are having the crap kicked out of their budgets, half of their spend is on pensions. I am not making excuses just stating that it always easy to blame the Council. We elect them. Just look on the web site and see what they are responsible for. I suppose the answer is to kill off all the old codgers !! (sorry senior citizens)

 

Eu funding could match an investment to make it easier to expand

 

Only just.. The Bristol public are notorious for enormous apathy toward voting in local councillors. I have read on many occasions that voting turn out has been 20% or less, the mayor vote was only 25% ish. iirc.

All your posts you appear to be defending them for 'doing their jobs' but haven't made any reasonable attempt to explain that question.. Why delay it? You appear to be suggesting parking is required to avoid local people being upset but they have delayed it due to a car park being provided? (as far as I can see?)

 

Adequate parking is required for the Arena punters (IMHO) The Council attitude just like the City ground is to ignore any car need and say get there by bike or bus or on foot. Public transport would not seem to be a viable alternative at 11pm at night. The Arena has to have a plan for getting people in and home. Any on road parking will have to compete with local residents which will not go down well. I don't care which system is used as long as it is fit for purpose. Clearly there is a lack of consensus that it is at the moment. The sponsors are saying we will sort it out over the next couple of years whereas the Planners want effective plans agreed before building starts. I have sympathy with the latter ...fail to plan etc

 

My dad used to go round the back of the pub and park in someone's back garden. It cost 3d. It is ironic that this is what Red Trousers wants us to do now. So come on City how about some bike racks

 

Here are a couple of quotes from both sides of the argument. I understand that this project is Council funded with borrowed money. Now imagine it was your decision to make about public money. The most telling comment to me is “the answers are just not out there” when referring to getting customers to and from site. Sounds like a shambles

Local comments Paul Breedon lives in nearby Totterdown and runs community magazine South Bristol Voice. He said he was not against the arena, but when he had asked local people about their concerns, they replied "parking, parking, parking". "Some of the closest places you will be able to park on the street are in Totterdown and the worry is that there's no plan at the moment,"

Meeting comments Council officers were quizzed about a wide range of transport matters but they were not satisfied that all the issues had been sorted out. And it emerged during the debate that a Travel Plan had not been drawn up - a blueprint which is required for any major new development. Lib Dem Councillor Mark Wright said: "This arena has been wanted by Bristol for a decade but it's important that we get it right." Labour leader Helen Holland said: "When I see the pictures of what the arena will look like, I cannot wait for it to be here. "But I just feel very disappointed that we have not had our questions answered. "I don't blame the officers for that – the answers are just not out there." She described the current set of transport proposals as a "mish mash" which left them shrouded in uncertainty.

You decide who is right? I would sooner have proper check and balances before the event

 

Al I can see is they have had plenty of time to do this?

in fact years..

 

Council officials desperately tried to dissuade councillors from deferring the plan because they argued that a delay would achieve nothing.

They said the planning application was safeguarded by a raft of conditions which were legally binding and that forced the city council - the promoters of the arena - to abide by.

Planning director Zoe Willcox said councillors could approve the scheme but insist on all the conditions being met before work could go ahead.

She said this would enable the design and development work to continue without delays - yet give the councillors the power they needed to make sure that all their fears were allayed.

Green Councillor Stephen Clarke asked what impact it would have if the plan was deferred.

Ms Willcox said: "Every week it is deferred, there are £80,000 additional costs in delays."

If it was mu decision I would tell the Councillors to stop behaving like children because an Independent Mayor is wanting to start a project for Bristol they have failed to deliver, and have already wasted millions upon millions on via feasibility studies for separate sites over decades.

 

The residents of Totterdown are lucky to be able to park outside their own houses now. and frankly some of the roads there are so narrow that prospective visitors to the Arena would be better off parking in Cabot Circus or at Temple Meads unless they want their vehicles scratched.

The latter, out of business hours can accommodate quite a few cars, although obviously not enough for a sold out concert. Plus the price is not only steep, it's effing vertical !

 

Well all I can say is that it depends on who you believe. I have dealt with many Council Officers over the years and some actually believe it is their money they are spending and act like little Hitlers. Councillors are on the other hand are elected to represent our interests and are at least approachable. Gone are the days when Councils were able to throw pots of money at a problem and do whatever they want. This project is probably 20 years too late and part of the ongoing "get cars out of towns" debate. I recently had an issue which I researched and put it to Council Officers but they said "go away". I then approached the Council's Chief solicitor for an opinion and he quite rightly said "but I only provide opinions to Council staff". Then tongue in cheek he said "ask them if they have consulted me, then if they wont say submit an FOI request to ask whetehr they have taken legal advice". They eventually replied to the latter and said we don't need to take advice, Take us to court if you are not happy. In summary and I know it is stereotyping but I trust Councillors (to act in our best interests) more than I do Council Officers.

 

An experiment at + and T junctions showed mini or roundabouts depending on space available were far far quicker when it came it to passing traffic .. one place it could have been better employed is bath rd /west town lane .. . .. traffic lights employed, and also works better than a stop system where all traffic stops at white solid line before moving on ... just!

THIS WAS THE BIGGEST MAJOR DISASTER of the "so called highways dept" EVER ... you pretty much had flows of traffic that could keep moving independently of each other because the flow tends not to be a constant .... now a traffic light backs up the flow, on a roundabout ... when there is nothing waiting to proceed .. same at bath rd/wtl. Whoever made this decision to take it away should IMO rot in hell .. along with other jobsworths.

why are they short of money ... easy .. they waste to much .. there is a huge list of whoops we cocked up projects and I am not going to list them ... your arguments are always half thought through and seem to be "I need to say something no one has the last word over me type" you would make a lot more sense and type a lot less "rubbish" if you took a breath before trying a reply ...

in response to the thread from Cliftonville , on what he reports, not his views ..... .. the problem with elected councillors is they have little or very often no knowledge of 90% ( or more ) of the stuff they have to deal with and therein lies the problems of waste of time and money ..
ive been on a load of committee's and you always someone that has no clue what to do or how something works but gets their way = end result it doesn't work ,is totally wrong approach and time and money are thus wasted ... . . .

it wont stop them either doing it or trying to ... know the area quite well and it is compact and tight ... annoyingly is that before some people get home from work their "respected" space has been taken by a " arena goer" so where do they park ...in the meantime Broadwalk area!
had people who used to park in "our spaces" instead of ample church carpark which always had spaces free even during the service ... " amazing how people can park their car when there is just 2" left at the front and back" lol !!!!! after the service or event, knock knock " I cant get my car out, it is boxed in ...oh is that your red c hubbie /wife thought it was Harry's down the street, and they ve gone off with the keys should be back in an hour / will get the keys .which of course you cant find / or other excuse .. they got the message one night when 4 of them were waiting 30 mins or so and the proper parkers had long gone.
hope the totterdown peeps do the same ..remember .."I thought it was so and so down the street comment ... and have ability to approach from street direction with the keys ... just in case plod decides to forgo a murder enquiry, or an old lady being attacked by a gang of yobs to investigate ....

 

Ha !!

I wouldn't have necessarily thought that people attending a concert from out of town would go looking for parking spaces in Totterdown, especially when they go past Cabot Circus or wherever.

But a lot of people are just lazy and inconsiderate. We regularly have people parking outside of our house and obstructing our drive, when there is a car park for 30 cars a 15 second walk away. People have to park outside of the house they are visiting rather than use common sense. If not obstructing our drive then they park on the opposite pavement which makes getting in and out of our house difficult.
In a worst case scenario the way some idiots park, there is no way a Fire Engine could get down our road at certain times.

 

When Massive Attack played in Queens Square and far more attended than would use this arena. Bristol did not grind to a halt. It carried on and some people outside made a lot of money as well as those inside. Capital will find a way to profit out of something that will bring millions into Bristol over years.

The arena site is next to the South Wests largest train station. The bridge by the feeder being built almost reaches Temple Meads itself. The gap is less than a hundred metres, there are buses, cycles paths, main roads and ferries all in very very close proximity.

BUT the main political parties would have us believe that they have only just noticed a flaw in the travel arrangements. We are not all stupid. Simple political chest beating again at others expense. 80k would pay to lay down two all weather football pitches which need doing in Whitchurch on a council owned site. Instead they would rather spunk that up the wall while playing out their turf wars.