Off Topic BREXIT

[petersaxton]

You presume too much and understand far too little.

I have already told you but you seem too dim to understand.

Direct democracy.

Simples.

What's that in practice? How would it apply to deciding whether to stay in or leave the EU?

 

[Sir Cheshire Ben]

I don't often agree with Tobes but on this he is right.

If parliament ignore the referendum we remain a member of the EU and there's nothing Brussels can do about it.

The question is will the next leader of the Tory Party invoke Article 50, call a second referendum, call a general election to put it further into the long grass or ignore the referendum altogether. I've said what I think. The political establishment is looking at ways to avoid invoking Article 50. Cameron's given them time to think how that can be achieved.

That's what I've said. I've been asking for clarification as Tobes can't make up his mind, he's confused. I've said it's not the EU's decision. It's not me who has a problem with democracy but others.

If that's the question Tobes is fine because he's not starting to worry about it until it's invoked. I just wish he'd not worry more democratically.

For a GE legislation would need to be changed. MPS could then force the decision to be made by not voting for legislation change. I've made it clear what I think should happen.

 

[Tobes]

"Bumbling Boris" - why do you call him that? It sounds more like the comment of a child.

Because he's a prize prick imo, problem?

Pardon me if I find the morals of a man who was pro remain then turned to head up leave purely as an act of self promotion and to challenge his childhood adversary and thus position himself as the PM in waiting - somewhat nauseating

 

[petersaxton]

Not sure if I should bother replying to this are you just looking for a cyber fight?

I know and fully understand that the people stood up for themselves (and what a great thing that is), my point is what happens next? who is going to represent those people and their wishes? Most of the elected government were on the other side, their leader is stepping down and not planning to be replaced until the party conference in October. IF the Tory party decide they can't, don't want to represent the public's wishes and call a general election the Labour party is also in a state of disarray. Could UKIP who got loads of votes but only one MP do better in another election.

The people have stood up for themselves but someone has to go and talk to the EU on their behalf, how do you see that working?

The Conservative Party will elect a new leader who will be Prime Minister and they will appoint somebody to talk to the EU. What is so difficult to understand about that?

 

[originalminority]

The Labour party MP's don't seem to represent the views of the people who voted for them and for Corbyn, think they are going to implode just like the Tories. Scary times, vacuums are often filled by extremes of right or left which is no good either way.

I agree with Peter Hitchens, brexit is only half the revolution, the Tory/Labour system has out lived its relevance and usefulness.

 

[Tobes]

there's plenty of programs available that would fool websites into thinking you are in the UK.
you can use other post codes and use different email addresses. I have an account with unlimited email addresses.

I suppose it's easier to find reasons as to why people have cheated the petition than believe that it's actually the view of millions of UK citizens.

It's all moot anyway, as there'll be no 2nd vote. It's purely an act that shows people's dissatisfaction at the result.

 

[Sir Cheshire Ben]

Wrong on which bit mate?

Corbyn is a dead duck, his leadership has been virtually none existent and he's unelectable imo.

Both parties will be minus a leader shortly, and then what?

The Tories face having an unelected PM left with the task of pressing the button on article 50, and Labour will have to completely reposition itself, as its lost its way completely in the last 5 years. I see the outcome as being a GE.

Corbyn is a popular leader, he will get re-elected if challenged.

 

[Old Tige]

"Bumbling Boris" - why do you call him that? It sounds more like the comment of a child.

What was that incredibly hilarious sobriquet you used for Obama again?

What's that in practice? How would it apply to deciding whether to stay in or leave the EU?

Too late for that don't you think?

I would have thought that someone with a brain the size of a planet would already know about the alternatives before so adamantly deciding on their own stance.

Apparently not.

Do your own research.

 

[petersaxton]

The EU have already made their position clear - get on with it.

The responsibility for pressing the button sits with the Govt not some cross party committee. So which Tory is going to be the one to do it?

My money is on a GE being called, when Cameron leaves office, and the election will end up being a 1 issue debate. A second referendum by proxy.

I see no need for an immediate general election. It will be less likely if Corbyn is ousted. The Prime Minister will inform the EU when we are ready to inform the.

 

[Tobes]

Corbyn is a popular leader, he will get re-elected if challenged.

Popular with who exactly?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...dow-cabinet-by-jeremy-c/#update-20160626-1301

 

[Tobes]

I see no need for an immediate general election. It will be less likely if Corbyn is ousted. The Prime Minister will inform the EU when we are ready to inform the.

No Tory will want to be the man who steps forward as an unelected PM and presses the button on article 50.

Cameron has snookered Johnson by immediately walking away from it and refusing to be the man who puts his name to it.

 

[petersaxton]

So if the views of the majority are to be over ruled how else can you do it except in a dictatorship?

To engage in adult conversations would need another adult. You appear to be naive, immature and living in a dream world,

If you don't accept a voting majority or a dictatorship he might mean some kind of random decision generator but I fail to see that making sense either. Maybe he's thinking of a group of left wing self proclaimed "experts" to decide everything? Or some other non-democratic means?

 

[Old Tige]

If you don't accept a voting majority or a dictatorship he might mean some kind of random decision generator but I fail to see that making sense either. Maybe he's thinking of a group of left wing self proclaimed "experts" to decide everything? Or some other non-democratic means?

What a ****ing waste of an expensive education you are.

Please don't try to speak for me.

 

[Sir Cheshire Ben]

Popular with who exactly?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...dow-cabinet-by-jeremy-c/#update-20160626-1301

It's not their decision. Corbyn is a popular leader with the members of the Labour Party, the people who will make the decision on who leads the Party. He was elected with the clearest of majorities. Membership has risen at a staggering rate since he became leader. It's not Corbyn who's out of touch with the members of the Labour Party.

I wouldn't expect you to understand, you don't do democracy.

 

[petersaxton]

Consensus?

One thing which is common to both sides in this argument is a total lack of trust or belief in our current system.

But like a battered wife, they seem unable to consider ditching their abusive partner. A monster who has so diminished them as an individual and conditioned them into dependency that they no longer have the self belief or initiative to even consider escape.

It's the system that has been confirmed by the referendum on voting. Your analogy doesn't make any sense.

 

[Old Tige]

It's the system that has been confirmed by the referendum on voting. Your analogy doesn't make any sense.

Nor does your post.

Not a clue what you are saying there.

And tbh, I don't give a ****.

 

[Tobes]

It's not their decision. Corbyn is a popular leader with the members of the Labour Party, the people who will make the decision on who leads the Party. He was elected with the clearest of majorities. Membership has risen at a staggering rate since he became leader. It's not Corbyn who's out of touch with the members of the Labour Party.

I wouldn't expect you to understand, you don't do democracy.

So half the shadow cabinet resigning in protest at his leadership shows his popularity then?

Gotcha

Seems you don't 'do' reality mate

 

[Barchullona]

What a ****ing waste of an expensive education you are.

Please don't try to speak for me.

Some one needs to speak for you to enable you to talk sense. My 6 year old granddaughter could help.

 

[petersaxton]

Because he's a prize prick imo, problem?

Pardon me if I find the morals of a man who was pro remain then turned to head up leave purely as an act of self promotion and to challenge his childhood adversary and thus position himself as the PM in waiting - somewhat nauseating

First you come up with an adjective that has a definition such as "acting in a confused or ineffectual way; incompetent". I would suggest Boris, who won scholarships to Eton and Balliol and got a 2:1 in Classics from Oxford, and then has had a career as a first class journalist and London Mayor as well as being an MP, shouldn't be called the adjective you used. But you seem incapable of justifying yourself. You then decide to use a meaningless noun. Your opinion seems to be worthless on a grand scale.

 

[Sir Cheshire Ben]

So half the shadow cabinet resigning in protest at his leadership shows his popularity then?

Gotcha

Seems you don't 'do' reality mate

They'll be replaced, it's them that are out of touch with the Members. They've been undermining him since he was elected. Pretty much the Labour Party equivalent to you & your other sour grape referendum foot stampers.

It's the Members that decide the leader, if they can't support what the majority of members want then resigning is best.