Off Topic BREXIT

[petersaxton]

If you think we're in the driving seat when it comes to negotiating with the EU you're crazy.

Can you explain why the EU wouldn't want to trade with us on sensible terms? Why would they be negotiating a trade deal with the USA without demanding freedom of movement?
"Agreements
Over the next ten to 15 years, 90% of world demand will be generated outside Europe. That is why it is a key priority for the EU to tap into this growth potential by opening up market opportunities for European businesses abroad. One way of ensuring this is through negotiating agreements with our key partners.

As tariffs are relatively low in world trade today, trade barriers lie behind the customs borders: hence the EU aims to conclude Deep and Comprehensive Free Trade Agreements (DCFTA) that, on top of removing tariffs, also open up markets on services, investment, public procurement and include regulatory issues.

If the EU was to complete all its current free trade talks tomorrow, it could add 2.2% to the EU's GDP or €275 billion. This is equivalent to adding a country as big as Austria or Denmark to the EU economy. In terms of employment, these agreements could generate 2.2 million new jobs or an additional 1% of the EU total workforce.

Trade agreements

Latest developments
United States: TTIP 13th round

Overview of ongoing negotiations

Trade negotiations in a nutshell
Free Trade Agreements are designed to create opportunities by:

Opening new markets for goods and services
Increasing investment opportunities
Making trade cheaper - by eliminating substantially all customs duties
Making trade faster - by facilitating goods' transit through customs and setting common rules on technical and sanitary standards
Making the policy environment more predictable - by taking joint commitments on areas that affect trade such as intellectual property rights, competition rules and the framework for public purchasing decisions"
http://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/countries-and-regions/agreements/index_en.htm

The above sets out the EUs desire for free trade agreements. Are you saying it's all lies?

 

[Old Tige]

No you don't know what you are talking about. The Spanish Civil War was fought between the Communists and Franco and the rest of Europe did bugger all about it because they didn't want Communist ideals exported from Russia.

No.

It was fought between Spanish republicans and nationalists.

The republicans made up of an unstable coalition of diverse groups of the revolutionary left, Including communists.

 

[petersaxton]

No chance, not to the extent of some of the elitist **** I've seen.

Quite ironic that those who insist on an all encompassing Europe think we should exclude those who are "uneducated", live on "council estates", are "bigots, "racists", "thick", "selfish" & even "old".

Richard Starkey, in a discussion on the EU referendum was criticised for being a "man"! And "old"!

 

[GLP]

As an example BMW sell circa 20% of all their new cars into the UK, you think that they aren't going to be desperate to strike up a trade agreement? The U.K. is a huge market and EU countries will be desperate to maintain the status quo with regards to protecting their interests. Can you imagine BMW having to make up a 20% deficit on sales of their cars from elsewhere?

I work for a Spanish company in the UK, their position is carry on as normal....

 

[trouserpress]

I still don't really understand this taking back control argument. Unless you believe all those made-up stories by the daily mail about EU directives on maximum sizes of bunches of bananas and the like, myths which have been perpetuated for years. We're not in the Euro, our govt sets tax rates, interest rates, everything important comes from Westminster. What exactly is it that we couldn't do in Europe, that the brexiters want to be able to do? If peiple are unhappy with their lot, well we have elections every five years when you can change the government.

 

[originallambrettaman]

Can you explain why the EU wouldn't want to trade with us on sensible terms? Why would they be negotiating a trade deal with the USA without demanding freedom of movement?
"Agreements
Over the next ten to 15 years, 90% of world demand will be generated outside Europe. That is why it is a key priority for the EU to tap into this growth potential by opening up market opportunities for European businesses abroad. One way of ensuring this is through negotiating agreements with our key partners.

As tariffs are relatively low in world trade today, trade barriers lie behind the customs borders: hence the EU aims to conclude Deep and Comprehensive Free Trade Agreements (DCFTA) that, on top of removing tariffs, also open up markets on services, investment, public procurement and include regulatory issues.

If the EU was to complete all its current free trade talks tomorrow, it could add 2.2% to the EU's GDP or €275 billion. This is equivalent to adding a country as big as Austria or Denmark to the EU economy. In terms of employment, these agreements could generate 2.2 million new jobs or an additional 1% of the EU total workforce.

Trade agreements

Latest developments
United States: TTIP 13th round

Overview of ongoing negotiations

Trade negotiations in a nutshell
Free Trade Agreements are designed to create opportunities by:

Opening new markets for goods and services
Increasing investment opportunities
Making trade cheaper - by eliminating substantially all customs duties
Making trade faster - by facilitating goods' transit through customs and setting common rules on technical and sanitary standards
Making the policy environment more predictable - by taking joint commitments on areas that affect trade such as intellectual property rights, competition rules and the framework for public purchasing decisions"
http://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/countries-and-regions/agreements/index_en.htm

The above sets out the EUs desire for free trade agreements. Are you saying it's all lies?

That has absolutely **** all to do with what I posted. The EU will agree a free trade agreement with us, they just won't then let us go off and sign our own deals with everyone else. We'll be obliged to stick with all the existing EU agreements and the ones you've just posted above.

 

[petersaxton]

What like key business heads James Dyson, Graeme Macdonald (CEO for JCB) that advocated an exit from the EU? You're talking out of your arse.

The Remainers have a sense of entitlement and try to belittle anybody who has an opinion opposite to themselves. Bob Geldof and Eddie Izzard encapsulate them perfectly.

 

[MadridTiger]

Madrid, we've met, had a drink and spent a day at Wembley for the cup final in each other's company to say I'm disappointed in some of your comments is an understatement but given your location and situation highly understandable.

My dad voted to leave not because of immigration or because he's a bigot but because he's a 4th generation fruit farmer from East Kent.

Over the best part of his working life he's seen his industry crippled by the EU, the EU May not have been to blame as much as his own governments inability to make agriculture more competitive or more importantly value industries such as farming and fishing, but his vote was as far as he believed for a better chance - many had other reasons some may have been bigots but not all.

Me and brother voted in a different direction but we certainly don't bare any grudge towards him - we both watched him struggle throughout our childhoods and more importantly saw the sheer disappointment and sadness in his eyes when his sons told him they wouldn't be following in his and his families footsteps.

I'm not angry about the result I'm angry about the manner in which people have taken the result and lack of positivity about what, may, lay ahead.

For myself the path I took away from farming led me to a career where now I can have a positive impact on where we go next - luckily the doom and gloom coming from the EU doesn't resonate with with the work I've been doing for the last 8 years and I remain optimistic that in the long term a reasonable exit will be achieved.

Hi mate,

I'm just frustrated and I've vented with a couple of daft comments. I think I've been disappointed as a whole with UK politics and the scaremongering on both sides. Both campaigns were sickening and preyed on people's fears instead of facts and realistic ideas by both sides. I think this just shows the massive disconnect between Westminster and the rest and it has proved the real discontent of the masses. Apologises for any offence. Hope you're doing well

 

[petersaxton]

I still don't really understand this taking back control argument. Unless you believe all those made-up stories by the daily mail about EU directives on maximum sizes of bunches of bananas and the like, myths which have been perpetuated for years. We're not in the Euro, our govt sets tax rates, interest rates, everything important comes from Westminster. What exactly is it that we couldn't do in Europe, that the brexiters want to be able to do? If peiple are unhappy with their lot, well we have elections every five years when you can change the government.

One example:
Under EU rules the Government is only able to deport an EU national from this country if the person’s conduct represents a genuine, present and sufficiently serious threat which affects public policy, security or health. If it can't be shown that they are immediately going to commit a serious crime we can't deport them.

 

[dennisboothstash]

residents across EU

Cheers

 

[petersaxton]

That has absolutely **** all to do with what I posted. The EU will agree a free trade agreement with us, they just won't then let us go off and sign our own deals with everyone else. We'll be obliged to stick with all the existing EU agreements and the ones you've just posted above.

Is your position that if we have a trade deal with the EU then we wouldn't be allowed to agree a trade deal with countries such as China? If so, do you have any evidence of that?

 

[brownbagtiger]

As an example BMW sell circa 20% of all their new cars into the UK, you think that they aren't going to be desperate to strike up a trade agreement? The U.K. is a huge market and EU countries will be desperate to maintain the status quo with regards to protecting their interests. Can you imagine BMW having to make up a 20% deficit on sales of their cars from elsewhere?

I work for a Spanish company in the UK, their position is carry on as normal....

Agree our EU trading partners will probably want to continue the relation, but what of the companies from outside the EU that have their European operations in the UK as their gateway to the EU? Why would you have an EU HQ in a non-EU country? Companies with UK operations like Samsung, LG, Goldman Sachs, Bombadier, Amazon, Tata, Nissan - all hefty UK employers.

 

[MadridTiger]

What like key business heads James Dyson, Graeme Macdonald (CEO for JCB) that advocated an exit from the EU? You're talking out of your arse.

Let's come back to it when we know the true ramifications of the exit. Look at campaign propaganda. Brexit knew who they were targeting. Obviously not every single voter thinks that way, that was obviously a ridiculous comment, but if you honestly believe that a substantial quantity were not then let's agree to disagree

 

[Barchullona]

Germans voted for Hitler primarily because of his promises to revive the economy (by unspecified means), to restore German greatness and overturn the Treaty of Versailles, and to save Germany from communism.
(same link)

Pete, you were wrong in saying Hitler came to power undemocratically. He got into power legitimately (unlike the communist governments in Europe) using the PR system.A first past the post system like ours could have stopped him. In fact if the Communists and Social Democrats had worked together in 1932 they could have stopped him but Stalin forbade it as he considered Social Democrats traitors to the cause. The following year it was too late. Hitler got 43.9% of the vote, more than the majority of our Prime Ministers have ever had, and over 17 million votes, more than winning parties get here from a similar sized electorate. Of course once in power he ten used the legal,processes for his own ends to crush opposition and establish a dictatorship.

Poor old Justin. He thinks it must have been terrifying living there. He would have been a quivering wreck in the USSR where Stalin murdered over 50 million of his own people, twice as many USSR citizens as Hitler was responsible for the deaths of. In comparison the Nazis killed about 600,000 of their own citizens.

 

[trouserpress]

One example:
Under EU rules the Government is only able to deport an EU national from this country if the person’s conduct represents a genuine, present and sufficiently serious threat which affects public policy, security or health. If it can't be shown that they are immediately going to commit a serious crime we can't deport them.

Ah now we're getting to the nub of it. You want to be able to deport people more easily. Well worth risking the economy for. Anything else?

 

[dennisboothstash]

residents across EU

So 20 countries, as long as those 20 countries populations collectively add up to over 65% of the population of the EU?

By the way although I agree it won't happen there are still some saying Brexit could be blocked http://news.sky.com/story/1717556/labour-mp-urges-commons-vote-to-block-brexit

 

[GLP]

Agree our EU trading partners will probably want to continue the relation, but what of the companies from outside the EU that have their European operations in the UK as their gateway to the EU? Why would you have an EU HQ in a non-EU country? Companies with UK operations like Samsung, LG, Goldman Sachs, Bombadier, Amazon, Tata, Nissan - all hefty UK employers.

Maybe they are located in this country for other reasons than just the one you have outlined. Access to talented professionals and specialist skills.

 

[Barchullona]

What like key business heads James Dyson, Graeme Macdonald (CEO for JCB) that advocated an exit from the EU? You're talking out of your arse.

Whereas the Remain lot, according to Sterling Archer were full of intelligent folk, teachers, engineers, doctors, consultants etc. Like Beckham, one of One Direction, .James Corden, Gary Lineker, Eddie Izzard.

 

[petersaxton]

Agree our EU trading partners will probably want to continue the relation, but what of the companies from outside the EU that have their European operations in the UK as their gateway to the EU? Why would you have an EU HQ in a non-EU country? Companies with UK operations like Samsung, LG, Goldman Sachs, Bombadier, Amazon, Tata, Nissan - all hefty UK employers.

EU HQ!? I've never heard of one of them. I've heard of a European HQ. Why not have a European HQ in Europe? I think countries from different continents prefer to have their HQs in/or near London due to the fact that English is an international business language and the transport links.

 

[GLP]

Let's come back to it when we know the true ramifications of the exit. Look at campaign propaganda. Brexit knew who they were targeting. Obviously not every single voter thinks that way, that was obviously a ridiculous comment, but if you honestly believe that a substantial quantity were not then let's agree to disagree

That's fine! I voted leave and I believe in years to come we'll be stronger for it.

There'll be more exits along the way with other countries unhappy with central governance from Brussels.