Breeders' Cup 2015

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Gleneagles really has been the biggest hype job off all time from Ballydoyle. Thought he was good after the Guineas but he's just beat rubbish all year it's been proved.

So, how does this thumping tonight affect his stud value with breeders here, or does it count for little?
 
beeforsalmon said:
Gleneagles really has been the biggest hype job off all time from Ballydoyle. Thought he was good after the Guineas but he's just beat rubbish all year it's been proved.

So, how does this thumping tonight affect his stud value with breeders here, or does it count for little?
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Never won against older horses.
I thought he looked small against the others in the Classic and he obviously hated the dirt kickback
 
The big guys are all hype. Sure these Classic winners are top flight horses who mostly go onto decent stud careers, but rarely do they turn out to super sires. How many classic winners are there every year? They all can't be future sensations at stud. It defies logic, but Coolmore and their ilk want us to swallow their garbage year in, year out.
 
Although a very successful Saturday evening and considering my continued stay in a city centre hotel I managed to remain 'dry' last night. Good behaviour should be rewarded so Sonos Soundbar and iPod Touch (128GB) here I come!!!!

Must admit that good behaviour had sweet 'fa' to do with my staying in. Extended booze up would spoil my upcoming trip to Paris for the 'jumps' at Auteuil!
 
With the ground doing in Golden Horn (again), there can be little doubt now that the top spot in this year’s International Racehorse Classification is going to go to American Pharoah, with just that defeat in the Travers Stakes blemishing his Triple Crown campaign.

Absolutely no idea why “the lads” ran Gleneagles in the Classic – he’s never been beyond a mile and never run on dirt so why not just go for the Mile on turf? As it is, I do not think he would have done any good there either because of the ground. I would have thought he was an ideal candidate for a four-year-old campaign to try and bolster his tarnished reputation, if a rare dry summer happens next year!

As I cannot see much prospect of another bet on what is left of the Flat season, it looks like I finished the season with a French loser, Impassable. Not So Glorious Goodwood made this a wretched season on the betting front as I never got those loses back in what was left of the schedule – too many seconds and thirds.

Good luck with the slow old plodders – hope the winter does not turn out too dry for them!
 
Gleneagles has only managed to beat 1 older horse (Top Notch Tonto) in his races.
He is due to stand at Coolmore next year, but no stud fee has been announced yet
 
Couldnt believe Legatissimo was odds on, was priced up like a world class filly but had only beaten Group 2 and 3 fillies like Cladocera, Wedding Vow and Anippe, got beaten by Qualify and Diamondsanrubies who have been tailed off since. They were going on about her like she just had to turn up to win but I dont know what form they were looking at to think that. Even Midday, got turned over second time in that race when she had proper Group 1 form with Sariska, Stacelita and Snow Fairy, Legatissimo was the mug bet of the meeting no doubt. Not the only Tabor beast winning Group 1s all season without having to beat Group 1 horses.

Was a close call between Legatissimo and Golden Horn for lay of the meeting but Legatissimo probably just shaded it. Golden Horn ran out of gas as I fully expected but unfortunately my Big Blue Kitten 20/1 bet went down with the jockey giving them 10L start and going about 12 wide round the bend, really was a certainty beat. Found fell home with Golden Horn running his lowest rating since the Fielden, not far in front of some American horses who would have been out with the washing in the Arc, neither Found or Golden Horn had any business in this race and both ran well below their best.

Also couldnt believe Nyquist was 7/1, absolutely incredible price, I backed him at 7/2 antepost thinking he would go off about 6/4 but he ran below his best with a poor trip when winning the trial and the wide draw meant he was available at a crazy price, was my second biggest bet of the night at 7/1, Runhappy 3/1 in the sprint was my banker.

Fancied Mondialiste 16/1 strongly in the Mile and was absolutely raging the way that panned out, best horse in the race for my money.

Had my antepost 14/1 on American Pharoah, hes a champion all right, knew he was the triple crown winner when I backed him for this before the Derby and told everyone he would go off odds on for it, was never in doubt and he is one of the greats. Not sure about his RPR only 5 pounds off Frankel as it was probably the weakest BC Classic ive ever seen, even worse than Zenyattas, but he was back to his very best and he was entitled to win as he did.

Not a vintage BC by any stretch but there was some excellent bets and lays as always, onto Hong Kong now then its plodder city.
 
Der Kaiser said:
Couldnt believe Legatissimo was odds on, was priced up like a world class filly but had only beaten Group 2 and 3 fillies like Cladocera, Wedding Vow and Anippe, got beaten by Qualify and Diamondsanrubies who have been tailed off since. They were going on about her like she just had to turn up to win but I dont know what form they were looking at to think that. Even Midday, got turned over second time in that race when she had proper Group 1 form with Sariska, Stacelita and Snow Fairy, Legatissimo was the mug bet of the meeting no doubt. Not the only Tabor beast winning Group 1s all season without having to beat Group 1 horses.

Was a close call between Legatissimo and Golden Horn for lay of the meeting but Legatissimo probably just shaded it. Golden Horn ran out of gas as I fully expected but unfortunately my Big Blue Kitten 20/1 bet went down with the jockey giving them 10L start and going about 12 wide round the bend, really was a certainty beat. Found fell home with Golden Horn running his lowest rating since the Fielden, not far in front of some American horses who would have been out with the washing in the Arc, neither Found or Golden Horn had any business in this race and both ran well below their best.

Also couldnt believe Nyquist was 7/1, absolutely incredible price, I backed him at 7/2 antepost thinking he would go off about 6/4 but he ran below his best with a poor trip when winning the trial and the wide draw meant he was available at a crazy price, was my second biggest bet of the night at 7/1, Runhappy 3/1 in the sprint was my banker.

Fancied Mondialiste 16/1 strongly in the Mile and was absolutely raging the way that panned out, best horse in the race for my money.

Had my antepost 14/1 on American Pharoah, hes a champion all right, knew he was the triple crown winner when I backed him for this before the Derby and told everyone he would go off odds on for it, was never in doubt and he is one of the greats. Not sure about his RPR only 5 pounds off Frankel as it was probably the weakest BC Classic ive ever seen, even worse than Zenyattas, but he was back to his very best and he was entitled to win as he did.

Not a vintage BC by any stretch but there was some excellent bets and lays as always, onto Hong Kong now then its plodder city.
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<laugh> Captain Hindsight in the house
 
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Der Kaiser said:
Its actually foresight though, was all posted before the events, just not on here, as per the script.
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DK, you know I'm joking ok, I like to laugh. I hope you had tons on mate, at the end of the day we are all trying to beat the bookie <ok> hopefully with some enjoyment along the way.

I actually never doubted your bet.
 
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beeforsalmon said:
Gleneagles really has been the biggest hype job off all time from Ballydoyle. Thought he was good after the Guineas but he's just beat rubbish all year it's been proved.

So, how does this thumping tonight affect his stud value with breeders here, or does it count for little?
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I think Gleneagles has been badly placed, and is actually a much better horse than people are giving him credit for. The way he won the Guineas and the St James's Palace prove this.

They waited for fast ground all season but couldn't get it, and passed up the opportunity to run on good ground a couple of times. So there decision to then run him on good to soft at Ascot, and then dirt in the classic just highlights how badly placed he's been all season.

He was never going to be competitive with a triple crown winner on a dirt surface :biggrin:
 
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They key thing you always have to remember with the Coolmore horses is that they are constantly on the look out for the next sire sensation. Galileo himself is not old (rising 18) but his health isn't great - numerous colic operations from what I hear - and Coolmore have yet to find a successor to him among their own ranks. His two most successful sons (in terms of their own offspring) are both owned by Darley!

I don't think Gleneagles' loss in the race will have a major impact on breeders' over here, it was a gamble that didn't pay off on an unfavourable surface.

On that note, start searching down the back of the sofa for the loose change - Golden Horn's fee has just been set today at £60,000.
 
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If I was a breeder I wouldn't be put off by either of his last 2 flops to be honest, as I do think he's a lot better than that. Dawn Approach had a very similar career in the sense that he flopped once he took on the older horses, but I wouldn't doubt how much ability he had.

Everyone knows that a horse in Gleneagles case that can win the St James's Palace stakes with ease is a high class horse, and would have been good enough to beat older horses if circumstances had allowed him to :biggrin:
 
The ground couldnt have been much worse than when he won the Irish Guineas, he simply isnt that good, hes no Henrythenavigator.

Was all bullshit from Ballydoyle because he was a Galileo miler, he had never beaten a Group 1 horse in his life before Ascot. Look at the state of the Guineas, I said it at the time it was a woeful Guineas, Territories, Ivawood, Bossy Guest, Celestial Path... Territories won a Group 1 next time but lets be honest, he beat Dutch Connection, a good Group 3 horse who will run ok in Group 2s.
Then the Irish Guineas, Endless Drama, Belardo, Ivawood again, Tombelaine and bleeding Mohaayed, I know Belardo ran well in the QEII but the admirable handicapper Gabrial was 3rd in that afterall...
In the St James Palace there was no bigger fan of the two horses he beat, but even I have to admit Latharnach and Consort were not Group 1 horses, Latharnach was comfortably beaten by Malabar in Group 3 next time out and Consort got beat in a listed race by a Group 2 horse. Consort has potential and will probably win the Hong Kong Derby but in European terms I cant say he was a Group 1 horse.

And this isnt hindsight, ive been saying it all season, I was in vegas on Guineas weekend and I wasnt even interested in a bet on the race, after my Consort antepost went down there was nothing interesting for me, worst Guineas ive seen.

Even Solow is nothing special in my opinion, its just a horrendously bad year for that division, the flat has been slated all season for being poor and rightly so, there really wasnt much depth anywhere. An American filly won the BC Mile from Mondialiste! Tells you everything.
 
Air Force Blue looks a potential star miler for next season, hes different class to Gleneagles in my opinion and the fillies division looks strong so im hoping next season will be much better, the Derby horses look very weak so ill be looking for a maiden winner for that although I do think Marcel is being underrated, hes a nice prospect if he gets the trip.
 
didnt realise just how spoiled we were that year, umpteen class colts and fillies over here with Zarkava, Natagora, Goldikova, Darjina, Vision Detat and Marchand Dor in France, 2008 was the best ive seen by a long long way

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