Off Topic Bradley Wiggins in trouble again
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He (or she) who has the best Doctor / Scientist wins. Legal yes, spirit of sport no.
Naive bunch of ****wits.
Sky broke no rules. They didn’t cheat. End of.
They used every legal advantage.
On the subject of drugs check every pro rugby player. Most footballers. Most athletes and even the players who stick vicks on their shirts for a little advantage.
Armchair ****ers and bandwagon preachers the lot of you bleating idiots.
Winning is about using the rules and being the best you can within them. Everyone uses drugs and sport will never (like you and I) be free of them. If they don’t like athletes using drugs you’d need a set of independent doctors to get involved. And even then there’d be arguments.
Coffee. Check. Pain relief. Check. Etc.
Sky broke no rules. They didn’t cheat. End of.
They used every legal advantage.
On the subject of drugs check every pro rugby player. Most footballers. Most athletes and even the players who stick vicks on their shirts for a little advantage.
Armchair ****ers and bandwagon preachers the lot of you bleating idiots.
Winning is about using the rules and being the best you can within them. Everyone uses drugs and sport will never (like you and I) be free of them. If they don’t like athletes using drugs you’d need a set of independent doctors to get involved. And even then there’d be arguments.
Coffee. Check. Pain relief. Check. Etc.
I’d be more concerned if he’d done it unknowingly!
Every sport has rules
Every competitor goes as close as they can to the rules to get an advantage, whether that’s a penalty taker placing the ball right on the edge of the spot or skeleton sliders getting the fastest Lycra to wear
You’re right though. It’s jolly well not cricket
When I played for the Marquis of Lorne back in ‘94 in Gillingham I used to regularly sup 4 pints of performance enhancing Stella before kick off, half the team did.
Call me a drug cheat if you like, I don’t care.
Bit like Wiggers.
Call me a drug cheat if you like, I don’t care.
Bit like Wiggers.
source: the daily mail
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
the world doping authorities: interfering ideological killjoys who have unilaterally imposed themselves and their one-side rules and standards on all sports, like a cancer.
sport: cycling.
apart from football and cricket, i don't give a toss.
drugs in sport: boring, don't care, but would like to see everyone who ever worked for or supported wada die of leprosy.
cheating in sports: every corner at every football match for the last 100 years has featured unpunished cheating as players wrestle and push while officials and administrators turn a blind eye. that's big scale cheating, folks, and it's endorsed by all involved. cheating ignored because it's inconvenient to do anything about it. but fail to be in the right place when the wada bastards want to take your blood, and you get banned. hypocrisy.
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
the world doping authorities: interfering ideological killjoys who have unilaterally imposed themselves and their one-side rules and standards on all sports, like a cancer.
sport: cycling.
apart from football and cricket, i don't give a toss.
drugs in sport: boring, don't care, but would like to see everyone who ever worked for or supported wada die of leprosy.
cheating in sports: every corner at every football match for the last 100 years has featured unpunished cheating as players wrestle and push while officials and administrators turn a blind eye. that's big scale cheating, folks, and it's endorsed by all involved. cheating ignored because it's inconvenient to do anything about it. but fail to be in the right place when the wada bastards want to take your blood, and you get banned. hypocrisy.
Or, perhaps, the problem is with his integrity, and that of his team management.
This drug was allowed for medical reasons only; nothing, when put under moderate scrutiny, stacks up to a proper medical need. The whole sad obscuration of the events and the way in which senior officials have clearly lied to the cameras, the enquiry, not to mention you and I, is, maybe, legal, but it is certainty distasteful and worthy of a cheat. Hugely disappointed by the sport, but not by the posturing **** in lycra.
P.S.
Yes, the rules need a review, but how does that salvage their integrity?
No, he did it under medical advice.
Posh as **** we shared a bottle of port in the dressing room before a game
I’m not a Wiggins fanboy, but as far as I was aware it was administered under doctors advice. Doctors opinions are like lawyers opinions...sometimes different, but they’re all convinced they’re right
I can’t get excited about someone taking sports rules right to the wire. Most professionals will do what they can, within the rules. I suspect that if the same rules applied in football, and the medication was useful, then there would be loads of footballers on it
It’s their job, not a hobby
I see. That's a useful insight.
The performance enhancing nature of the drug was known. It had dispensation were medical needs could justify it. That can be daft or inclusive. That medical dispensation was certainly open to abuse, if your moral compass chose that route. If you choose that route and then try and obliterate your journey, and the reason for it, then you are a cheat. Mealy mouthed words and insatiable ambition don't change that.
Every now and then in sport, we see someone deny themself an advantage that the rules allow, a dubious lbw, a wrongly given freekick, an unintentional touch of a snooker ball; they concede the advantage and give their opponent that edge. Why? Because it is fair and honest and sportsmanlike.
You obviously go to the same compass store as Wiggins; et al.
Martin Samuel nails it for me. And if football teams, managers, dr's, players are doing it, name the bastards. All of them. Then ban the ****ers for life.
The difference is, while the Russian government assisted a systemic doping programme, it is members of Britain's parliament that have helped produce the damning 54-page report that goes furthest in revealing the culture of deceit in British Cycling and beyond.
Full credit to Damian Collins's parliamentary committee for that. What at first appeared a vanity project to advance his personal political ambitions has delivered and has emerged as a powerful agent for change, its incriminatory conclusion on Team Sky's TUE use, for instance, going further than newspapers and broadcasters can, backed by parliamentary privilege. Its verdict is devastating.
'We believe that drugs were being used by Team Sky, within the WADA rules, to enhance the performance of riders, and not just to treat medical need.'
If that feels more measured than incendiary at first, it is because the language around drug use in sport is created by lawyers and therefore cautious — but we can translate.
Cutting through the verbiage, the overview of Britain's elite performers is dismal indeed. Put simply: if an athlete obtains a Therapeutic Use Exemption ruling that was performance-enhancing but not born of physical need, it is cheating. The World Anti-Doping Agency has several pages of wordy rules explaining this. Nowhere does it say: have one on us.
TUEs were not introduced so smart athletes, ethically loose medics or ambitious team directors could find a way around the testing system. They were there to address genuine health problems, genuine medical emergencies, genuinely chronic conditions. They were introduced in the interest of fairness.
To abuse this process, then, to make it serve an entirely selfish purpose based on the need to climb hills faster, is corruption as blatant as any attempted by more conventionally defined drug cheats.
There are always those who seek equivalency in drug cases, so let's make it plain. Abusing TUEs, certainly exploiting a medicine as powerful as triamcinolone, would make a rider little different to Lance Armstrong, given the evidence former road race cyclist David Millar provided to the committee.
Triamcinolone, he said, was 'a once-a-year drug; the stress it put on your body required time to recover. You'd be mad to take it more often or in bigger doses.'
Sir Bradley Wiggins, according to evidence before the committee, may have been given triamcinolone on as many as nine occasions in four years, and around major events.
The committee's opinion that this was cheating, rather than mere opportunism, could not be made clearer; and if there are grey areas, or certainly opaque ones in the report, it is only because organisations that prided themselves on thoroughness and those much-vaunted marginal gains, turn out to be a lot of silly old scatterbrains when it comes to keeping proper medical records.
It is like finding out that NASA's scientists did the calculations for the next Mars probe on the back of a *** packet. Then smoked all the ***s at a party and threw the empty carton in the trash.
There is, at best, a litany of incompetence, at worst something more sinister. Computers go missing and are not recovered. Packages are delivered with their contents never adequately explained. There is no reliable evidence to say it was Fluimucil in the famous jiffy bag provided for Wiggins.
Not that Team Sky are alone in this. A separate part of the report contains a worrying account of events surrounding another icon of British sport, Mo Farah.
An injection of L-carnitine he received before the 2014 London Marathon from Dr Robin Chakraverty — now working for the FA as lead performance doctor to the England team — is also absent from UK Athletics' medical records. Given the detail prevalent in modern elite sport, with copious figures kept to inform every level of performance, even daily training, these oversights are unfathomable.
Dr Chakraverty says he had never given Farah L-carnitine before. How could he then forget to register its presence? What if there were side-effects? These failings are echoed throughout the report.
Indeed, the parliamentary committee concludes UK Anti-Doping may be worthy of compensation from British Cycling, given the money spent chasing leads down dead ends due to a lack of recorded evidence; there is also a call for the GMC to investigate Dr Chakraverty's cavalier approach to recorded detail.
Neither reflects well on those administering British sport; neither chimes with the popular sell of hard work and attention to detail, of brilliant athletes going the hard yards, while technicians crunch the numbers and explore the minutiae of sporting advantage.
The difference is, while the Russian government assisted a systemic doping programme, it is members of Britain's parliament that have helped produce the damning 54-page report that goes furthest in revealing the culture of deceit in British Cycling and beyond.
Full credit to Damian Collins's parliamentary committee for that. What at first appeared a vanity project to advance his personal political ambitions has delivered and has emerged as a powerful agent for change, its incriminatory conclusion on Team Sky's TUE use, for instance, going further than newspapers and broadcasters can, backed by parliamentary privilege. Its verdict is devastating.
'We believe that drugs were being used by Team Sky, within the WADA rules, to enhance the performance of riders, and not just to treat medical need.'
If that feels more measured than incendiary at first, it is because the language around drug use in sport is created by lawyers and therefore cautious — but we can translate.
Cutting through the verbiage, the overview of Britain's elite performers is dismal indeed. Put simply: if an athlete obtains a Therapeutic Use Exemption ruling that was performance-enhancing but not born of physical need, it is cheating. The World Anti-Doping Agency has several pages of wordy rules explaining this. Nowhere does it say: have one on us.
TUEs were not introduced so smart athletes, ethically loose medics or ambitious team directors could find a way around the testing system. They were there to address genuine health problems, genuine medical emergencies, genuinely chronic conditions. They were introduced in the interest of fairness.
To abuse this process, then, to make it serve an entirely selfish purpose based on the need to climb hills faster, is corruption as blatant as any attempted by more conventionally defined drug cheats.
There are always those who seek equivalency in drug cases, so let's make it plain. Abusing TUEs, certainly exploiting a medicine as powerful as triamcinolone, would make a rider little different to Lance Armstrong, given the evidence former road race cyclist David Millar provided to the committee.
Triamcinolone, he said, was 'a once-a-year drug; the stress it put on your body required time to recover. You'd be mad to take it more often or in bigger doses.'
Sir Bradley Wiggins, according to evidence before the committee, may have been given triamcinolone on as many as nine occasions in four years, and around major events.
The committee's opinion that this was cheating, rather than mere opportunism, could not be made clearer; and if there are grey areas, or certainly opaque ones in the report, it is only because organisations that prided themselves on thoroughness and those much-vaunted marginal gains, turn out to be a lot of silly old scatterbrains when it comes to keeping proper medical records.
It is like finding out that NASA's scientists did the calculations for the next Mars probe on the back of a *** packet. Then smoked all the ***s at a party and threw the empty carton in the trash.
There is, at best, a litany of incompetence, at worst something more sinister. Computers go missing and are not recovered. Packages are delivered with their contents never adequately explained. There is no reliable evidence to say it was Fluimucil in the famous jiffy bag provided for Wiggins.
Not that Team Sky are alone in this. A separate part of the report contains a worrying account of events surrounding another icon of British sport, Mo Farah.
An injection of L-carnitine he received before the 2014 London Marathon from Dr Robin Chakraverty — now working for the FA as lead performance doctor to the England team — is also absent from UK Athletics' medical records. Given the detail prevalent in modern elite sport, with copious figures kept to inform every level of performance, even daily training, these oversights are unfathomable.
Dr Chakraverty says he had never given Farah L-carnitine before. How could he then forget to register its presence? What if there were side-effects? These failings are echoed throughout the report.
Indeed, the parliamentary committee concludes UK Anti-Doping may be worthy of compensation from British Cycling, given the money spent chasing leads down dead ends due to a lack of recorded evidence; there is also a call for the GMC to investigate Dr Chakraverty's cavalier approach to recorded detail.
Neither reflects well on those administering British sport; neither chimes with the popular sell of hard work and attention to detail, of brilliant athletes going the hard yards, while technicians crunch the numbers and explore the minutiae of sporting advantage.
Yes. Every now and then that happens, and you remember them precisely because in professional sport they are so rare
My moral compass is irrelevant (actually I’m far too sporting to be a professional sportsperson). I just can’t get excited about professional sportspeople pushing the limits because most of them do, most of the time. Everything from trying to claim a throw in when it clearly wasn’t your ball upwards.
Integrity in highly paid professional sport? It’s on the shelf over there ...next to the rocking horse ****
I think they should allow all performance enhancing drugs, and extreme prosthetics and mutations
The Olympics would be brilliant. sprinters with 3 massive sprung legs and rockets sticking out of their back powering up the track while 50 feet tall pole vaulters leap way above the stadium roof, hinged at the waist to get over the flaming bar
Modern sports natural conclusion
Remeber the Chelsea team with Dan pet rescue, and Viali?
All on the gear. As well as half the Italy team and then pretty much any other team wanting to compete. Abusing steroids was rife. It’s not even denied so I’m not libelling anyone.
If a doctor will give you a TUE you take it. Or you watch someone else win.
It’s called playing the system. I’ve seen many rugby league pros yellow eyed and off their tits in the off season. Geared up to the hilt.
Paying tax is a bastard. It’s ethically bad to not pay as much as you possibly can.
If I said to you I could legally cut your tax bill in half would you do it?
This argument is lost on many, and I think Brad has a point. If you don’t like the rules, change the rules! DO NOT imply someone has cheated when they haven’t.
Ethically bad is not cheating, yet the whole headline insinuates it is.
I don’t like the argument.
All on the gear. As well as half the Italy team and then pretty much any other team wanting to compete. Abusing steroids was rife. It’s not even denied so I’m not libelling anyone.
If a doctor will give you a TUE you take it. Or you watch someone else win.
It’s called playing the system. I’ve seen many rugby league pros yellow eyed and off their tits in the off season. Geared up to the hilt.
Paying tax is a bastard. It’s ethically bad to not pay as much as you possibly can.
If I said to you I could legally cut your tax bill in half would you do it?
This argument is lost on many, and I think Brad has a point. If you don’t like the rules, change the rules! DO NOT imply someone has cheated when they haven’t.
Ethically bad is not cheating, yet the whole headline insinuates it is.
I don’t like the argument.
A few quid under the table and you could get doctors advise and a prescription for anything.
It's ridiculous that any performance enhancing drug is allowed to be in the bloodstream for a global sporting event.
There's no way of stopping it though, just look at all those legal highs that went round before the ban, basically the same as the real deal with the slightest alterations. These sport ****s will be up to the very same thing.
May as well let em loose and take whatever **** they want. Be a bit like F1 then, whoever cooks up the best cocktail finishes an hour and 50 laps in front of everyone else.
I'd argue the opposite; you remember the minority of cheats because they are so blatant and against the norm within sport. I'm not too sure what sport you watch, but...
...you're a sportsman, it would appear; do you consider there to be a difference between gamesmanship and cheating?
If no rule is broken, no accepted standard (such as TUE) is abused, then why do you believe highly capable, professional medics and managers succumb to brain farts when recording their must-be-recorded activities?
TUEs are there to support the inclusive aims in sport for those with certain health issues. Do you believe their use should be banned and put over there on the shelf, next to the jiffy bags containing integrity and rocking horse ****?
The rules state the drug can be used if needed to treat a medical condition, they didn't use it to treat a medical condition so they broke the rules.
The rules do not state that anyone with a TUE can use the drug as they please, which is why I suspect they have been quite sheepish when challenged about it and why medical records were not correctly maintained.
The problem is finding sufficient proof to show they cheated and that the drug was used against the rules. Blood and urine tests are useless because the TUE allows the drug to be present in the system, they would have to combine these with medical records or eye witness statements which obviously they're never going to get from Team Sky.
So essentially while a rule was technically broken it will be very hard to ever prove it and bring about appropriate punishments, hence why they did it in the first place.
