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originallambrettaman said:
They've put football club costs through the SMC, running up massive losses in the SMC in the process. This is partly so they can offset football club profits against SMC losses, but I suspect, is also to piss of the Council, as I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to wind it up when they sell the club.
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Didn't AP and Bartlett do the same?
 
Barchullona said:
To save wading through it all can you give a synopsis of how it shows the SMC is a vehicle for avoiding corporation taxes? And whose and for how long?
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SMC is one big financial liability, as such based on accumulated losses these can be used to offset the corporation tax liabilities of any holding company/ies. So it's tax mitigation, NOT avoidance.
 
Barchullona said:
Didn't AP and Bartlett do the same?
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The SMC made a profit under AP (not a big one, but he did pay some cash to the Council), Bartlett was taking money wherever he could get it, he mortgaged anything he could, but even in his last year in charge the SMC made a profit and had a net debt of just £325k (now it loses £2m a year and has net debt of over £16m).
 
originallambrettaman said:
The SMC made a profit under AP (not a big one, but he did pay some cash to the Council), Bartlett was taking money wherever he could get it, he mortgaged anything he could, but even in his last year in charge the SMC made a profit and had a net debt of just £325k (now it loses £2m a year and has net debt of over £16m).
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Bartlett also managed to wangle a mortgage on the stadium, which he didn't own, which takes some doing, not to mention some co-operation from the people that did own it, allegedly.
 
Urika Peece. said:
Bartlett also managed to wangle a mortgage on the stadium, which he didn't own, which takes some doing, not to mention some co-operation from the people that did own it, allegedly.
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The £3.4m mortgage that Bartlett took out on the stadium looks rather insignificant against almost £60m of debt that the SMC and football club have run up since.
 
cheshireles said:
SMC is one big financial liability, as such based on accumulated losses these can be used to offset the corporation tax liabilities of any holding company/ies. So it's tax mitigation, NOT avoidance.
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Tax avoidance is legal, tax evasion isn't. As far as I understand it anyway.
 
Arnold_Lane_HCFC said:
yeah agree. Daftest thing is Boy Blunder is perhaps only a couple of steps away from that long term step.
Would he be imaginative enough, brave enough, maybe even less obstinate enough to go the whole hog and invest in grass roots locally?
I suspect the answer would be no, on Penny wise pound foolish basis, but he could get the talent conveyor belt extended into the local junior leagues.
He’s intimated that we might be a selling club in the future I get that. So instead of Darnbirough trawling stats sites for players to buy, put that money into grass roots, the club organising soccer schools involving club staff and local clubs coaches etc GLP for one mentions his qualifications and his lads teams - that needs tapping on a more regular consistent basis.
The resources are there, there’s a basic structure in place already (roughly) it just needs pulling together.
Then for every KLP we develop and keep we also don’t let go people like Coyle to Leeds -> Fleetwood -> Home ( can’t remember if he cost us a fee but obvs that would be saved)
Promotion/ Champions for his home club obviously meant a lot to Coyle judging by the picture of him hugging his (?) mum in best stand.

edit - someone just told me another one of the Coyles went to Leeds but ‘came home’ to City.
Got to stop talent leaving Hull in the first place.
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Didn’t realise Rocco Coyle is the youngest brother.
But reading about the Coyles led me to their Coyle Sports Community. That’s pretty much what I’m on about ( in roundabout turns ) Tommy wants to leave a ‘legacy’ .
With a bit of foresight the Allams could leave a similar legacy, going some way to repairing historic damage.
Why, the Allams could even link up with the Coyles ....
 
originallambrettaman said:
The £3.4m mortgage that Bartlett took out on the stadium looks rather insignificant against almost £60m of debt that the SMC and football club have run up since.
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What's £3.4m between friends ? I meant the loan he obtained to buy the club off Pearson.
Are you saying that the club is almost £60m in debt which would make the asking price at least that ? Because I don't believe that.
 
Urika Peece. said:
What's £3.4m between friends ? I meant the loan he obtained to buy the club off Pearson.
Are you saying that the club is almost £60m in debt which would make the asking price at least that ? Because I don't believe that.
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The club debt is £42m and the SMC debt is a bit over £16m, it's not a matter of opinion, it's clearly stated in the accounts.

Bartlett didn't take out a loan to buy the club, he effectively used club money to pay for itself (at least partly), it was after we were promoted that he got a £22m loan, against future ticket sales and PL income, to fund player purchases.
 
originallambrettaman said:
The club debt is £42m and the SMC debt is a bit over £16m, it's not a matter of opinion, it's clearly stated in the accounts.

Bartlett didn't take out a loan to buy the club, he effectively used club money to pay for itself (at least partly), it was after we were promoted that he got a £22m loan, against future ticket sales and PL income, to fund player purchases.
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Still sounds like loan to me,
Are you interested in buying the club then ?
 
TwoWrights said:
Wasting the rest?
'Some' ignore the possibility that we may still be at Boothferry Park if the council hadn't funded the KC.
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Some clubs manage to finance the building of a stadium and cover the maintenance costs, ours can't keep a stadium they were given in a good state of repair and have racked up a debt of 16 million.
 
TwoWrights said:
Wasting the rest?
'Some' ignore the possibility that we may still be at Boothferry Park if the council hadn't funded the KC.
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It is possible there might not have been a Hull City or an FC if they hadn't. In fact there was more likelihood of FC going down the Swannee. Good job Pat Doyle was an FC fan.<laugh>

Of course we cold have ended up at a 2 sided, 8,000 capacity stadium which was seriously suggested at one time.
 
originallambrettaman said:
The SMC made a profit under AP (not a big one, but he did pay some cash to the Council), Bartlett was taking money wherever he could get it, he mortgaged anything he could, but even in his last year in charge the SMC made a profit and had a net debt of just £325k (now it loses £2m a year and has net debt of over £16m).
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No new owner is going to want to take on the SMC in that state unless the club value is reduced by that amount, which ain't likely to happen. Which creates a problem for the seller, purchaser, and HCC.
 
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