Bolton

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Well I'm not jumping on the Cook out bandwagon yet.

There were more debuts today and it showed as we still look like a new team that have no partnerships on the pitch. Everybody is sick of hearing it but it's obvious that we still need time to get this team functioning properly, we've already used quite a few players this season and our first eleven (whatever that will be) have not played enough games together yet to be a cohesive unit. This was always going to be the danger making wholesale changes to the squad and it's like we're still in pre-season whilst other teams are already playing league standard football.

I understand the results have been poor but I also understand that it may be a while before this team has any consistency to it and I'm not going to call for the manager's head after 6 games where the line up has been different in every match. The sooner Cook decides on his starting team and plays them every week the better.
 
In many many years of lows, we’ve now painfully plummeted to near the bottom of L1. Even with new owners signing exciting players, and all the optimism, nice noises off, and periods of exciting play, we still find a way to exstinguish all hope of anything even remotely near success. I used to be the optimist.

I have been in the camp of giving Cook and new signings time to reset the Ipswich dial. We all knew it would take time. But the defense today seemed a total shambles. We just cant be shipping 5 goals at a Home match.

Today has stretched my patience and ridiculous optimsm.

I think Cook now has until end of September to get a result and change of fortune.
 
What did we think of Walton? I thought he looked a bit dodgy, he fumbled an easy catch, didn’t seem vocal at organising the team at set pieces before he was left shell shocked by a defensive collapse from his outfield players.

But again, he’s a player that’s done it all before abs gone up like Cook twice and his team mates. I can’t see the issue lies with any one of them or the manager yet given they’ve all won promotion before atleqwt once, often alongside one another.

what did we think of Edmundson? He seemed decent but faded badly. I’m still jotsure playing him from the start was better than bringing him on.
 
I've said I'd give Cook until at least to the beginning of 2023, we've had wholesale changes and it'll take time to change our fortunes around after 10/15 years of decline. In terms of what he's achieved at this level, there's no one better.

However he has made some brave decisions which so far have spectacularly back fired, as I said last season those decisions have instantly put pressure on him as they have been pretty brutal and currently his record isn't just not very good, it's awful. I think we were prepared to let go the awful finish to last season with the idea that major positive changes were required. I always said we didn't have as good a squad as people thought and when you look at PLs time at Ipswich for most of his time he had an injury crisis in one area of the field, Cook came in with good will, some positive momentum and actually with a number of first team players returning to the fold, we should have made the playoffs.

I can accept after so many wholesale changes we certainly need patience this season and in my mind because of this my expectations for this season were lower than most on here even if we finish outside of the play offs if it looked like momentum was building I could accept that. My concern is his record is so bad even this season that I can't forget the end of last season and my biggest concern is I feel like Cook is making mistakes and taking alot of risks still:

- chucking the players under the bus last season, was very poor man management
- getting rid of a whole squad and replacing it is a huge risk, including that it makes it difficult to have a fit squad ready for the start of the season.
- bringing in a very inexperienced coaching team without an assistant
- stating that he likes to work with a small squad, then overloading the squad with players all of whom would expect to be in the first team.
- continously playing the with tactics which expose our defence i.e. Full backs high up the pitch, leaving CBs and CMs very exposed.

I'm all for giving managers time and especially one with PCs record and background but given some of the decisions he's made and the lack of wins at what point does that change?
 
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Yes, I did not like how he hung the squad he inherited out to dry. It lacked dignity. It also contradicts his post match comments about not hanging players our to dry…

I was and still am in favour of the total overhaul. And I’ve always said I’d give it to Xmas to kick in. I’d rather that than a slow 3 season plan. Football is such a different business to ‘normal business’ but shipping 5 at home isn’t ok. Had we lost 1-0 but totally had them on the racks I’d be more philosophical.

the seeming lack of quality coaching is worrying me. I’d not paid too much attention to this area as I’d assumed it was a priority in the ame way recruiting a manager with pedigree and some quality football players was. How can U run a formula one car if you dont have mechanics to tune it and fix its issues?

im not in the cook out camp. Bolton we’re in this position last season before it finally clicked and they won 15 to go up automatically.

fwiw, I’ve always liked the idea of Michael Appleton. Didn’t he also play for us for a bit?
 
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One of the worse things is we still haven't played the better teams in this division yet.
 
itfcptc said:
I've said I'd give Cook until at least to the beginning of 2023, we've had wholesale changes and it'll take time to change our fortunes around after 10/15 years of decline. In terms of what he's achieved at this level, there's no one better.

However he has made some brave decisions which so far have spectacularly back fired, as I said last season those decisions have instantly put pressure on him as they have been pretty brutal and currently his record isn't just not very good, it's awful. I think we were prepared to let go the awful finish to last season with the idea that major positive changes were required. I always said we didn't have as good a squad as people thought and when you look at PLs time at Ipswich for most of his time he had an injury crisis in one area of the field, Cook came in with good will, some positive momentum and actually with a number of first team players returning to the fold, we should have made the playoffs.

I can accept after so many wholesale changes we certainly need patience this season and in my mind because of this my expectations for this season were lower than most on here even if we finish outside of the play offs if it looked like momentum was building I could accept that. My concern is his record is so bad even this season that I can't forget the end of last season and my biggest concern is I feel like Cook is making mistakes and taking alot of risks still:

- chucking the players under the bus last season, was very poor man management
- getting rid of a whole squad and replacing it is a huge risk, including that it makes it difficult to have a fit squad ready for the start of the season.
- bringing in a very inexperienced coaching team without an assistant
- stating that he likes to work with a small squad, then overloading the squad with players all of whom would expect to be in the first team.
- continously playing the with tactics which expose our defence i.e. Full backs high up the pitch, leaving CBs and CMs very exposed.

I'm all for giving managers time and especially one with PCs record and background but given some of the decisions he's made and the lack of wins at what point does that change?
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Whatever happens now, I just hope we don’t get relegated. That may be a point of no return for us.
 
I was at the match yesterday. It was an entertaining, end-to-end first half with both teams looking ropey and error-prone in defence. That second half though, dearie me. An abject capitulation and - for all the rubbish we’ve seen over the last few years - I don’t think I’ve ever seen us concede five goals at home. In fact, the last time we conceded five goals at home was against that lot up the road over a decade ago!

My main takeaway from the match was that this team still needs some serious coaching. If I was Paul Cook, I’d be on the phone to someone like John McGreal and getting him in to coach this lot how to defend as a team. The fact that we’ve got Gary Roberta (who has never coached a team before in his life) and Franny Jeffers (previously used to coaching kids) responsible for coaching these players suggest that’s one of the issues. This squad has demonstrably good players, some of whom are Championship standard. I don’t think anyone can deny that. So it feels like we’ve spent a lot of money on a brand new Ferrari, but we’re not bothering to service it.

The second concern is that the squad turnover in the summer, in retrospect, is starting to look like it was just too much. There wasn’t a player out there yesterday who wanted to take charge. Nobody is that vocal. Nobody was trying to motivate the players. Now, hopefully, that changes with Morsy coming in after a couple more games out. But it’s wishful thinking believing that he can solely fix the lack of on-pitch leadership. At least Chambers, Skuse, and the old guard implemented a set of standards and principles for the players to meet. We’ve replaced them and upgraded the quality, but I think we’ve sacrificed the team spirit in the process.

At least Emma won the US Open last night, so it wasn’t a completely awful day.
 
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Nuggets said:
I was at the match yesterday. It was an entertaining, end-to-end first half with both teams looking ropey and error-prone in defence. That second half though, dearie me. An abject capitulation and - for all the rubbish we’ve seen over the last few years - I don’t think I’ve ever seen us concede five goals at home. In fact, the last time we conceded five goals at home was against that lot up the road over a decade ago!

My main takeaway from the match was that this team still needs some serious coaching. If I was Paul Cook, I’d be on the phone to someone like John McGreal and getting him in to coach this lot how to defend as a team. The fact that we’ve got Gary Roberta (who has never coached a team before in his life) and Franny Jeffers (previously used to coaching kids) responsible for coaching these players suggest that’s one of the issues. This squad has demonstrably good players, some of whom are Championship standard. I don’t think anyone can deny that. So it feels like we’ve spent a lot of money on a brand new Ferrari, but we’re not bothering to service it.

The second concern is that the squad turnover in the summer, in retrospect, is starting to look like it was just too much. There wasn’t a player out there yesterday who wanted to take charge. Nobody is that vocal. Nobody was trying to motivate the players. Now, hopefully, that changes with Morsy coming in after a couple more games out. But it’s wishful thinking believing that he can solely fix the lack of on-pitch leadership. At least Chambers, Skuse, and the old guard implemented a set of standards and principles for the players to meet. We’ve replaced them and upgraded the quality, but I think we’ve sacrificed the team spirit in the process.

At least Emma won the US Open last night, so it wasn’t a completely awful day.
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Why put this down to retrospect? It was bloody obvious to me. People inside the club were showing graphs of a tough start to the season.

I was pleased with the late transfer business. The players are there, but the players were never the whole problem last season and changing the whole squad wasn’t the solution.

My biggest gripes are Tom Carroll and Hladky. Those are farcical situations. It demonstrates that Cook was in a smash and grab to do a squad overhaul and wasn’t particularly thinking about the team he needed to mould.
 
Yorkie for manager, everything is always so obvious to him, he has never been wrong, surely it's the solution to the problem!
 
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Spanish said:
Yorkie for manager, everything is always so obvious to him, he has never been wrong, surely it's the solution to the problem!
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Thanks Spanish. I’d be superb on a matchday but I wouldn’t have a clue how to drill the players in training so I’ll respectfully have to decline.
 
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Nuggets said:
I was at the match yesterday. It was an entertaining, end-to-end first half with both teams looking ropey and error-prone in defence. That second half though, dearie me. An abject capitulation and - for all the rubbish we’ve seen over the last few years - I don’t think I’ve ever seen us concede five goals at home. In fact, the last time we conceded five goals at home was against that lot up the road over a decade ago!

My main takeaway from the match was that this team still needs some serious coaching. If I was Paul Cook, I’d be on the phone to someone like John McGreal and getting him in to coach this lot how to defend as a team. The fact that we’ve got Gary Roberta (who has never coached a team before in his life) and Franny Jeffers (previously used to coaching kids) responsible for coaching these players suggest that’s one of the issues. This squad has demonstrably good players, some of whom are Championship standard. I don’t think anyone can deny that. So it feels like we’ve spent a lot of money on a brand new Ferrari, but we’re not bothering to service it.

The second concern is that the squad turnover in the summer, in retrospect, is starting to look like it was just too much. There wasn’t a player out there yesterday who wanted to take charge. Nobody is that vocal. Nobody was trying to motivate the players. Now, hopefully, that changes with Morsy coming in after a couple more games out. But it’s wishful thinking believing that he can solely fix the lack of on-pitch leadership. At least Chambers, Skuse, and the old guard implemented a set of standards and principles for the players to meet. We’ve replaced them and upgraded the quality, but I think we’ve sacrificed the team spirit in the process.

At least Emma won the US Open last night, so it wasn’t a completely awful day.
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Agree with majority of what you've said. For me it's more about getting in an experienced assistant in to challenge PC not necessarily about coaching in any senior position you need experienced people around you to challenge your own thoughts and ideas, he simply hasn't got that at the moment. It's also important for the players to have some experienced coaching staff to look up to.

We've definitely got the personnel in terms of playing squad, things need to turn and if they don't soon it could be curtains for Cook as he's simply taken too many risks. I think we have leaders in there but it's tough for that to come through when there have been so many changes for so many reasons.

Whilst I'm quite concerned and negative, 1 win could change things but things need to change quickly otherwise that negativity and responsibility could cause us to nose dive and we could quickly be in a relegation fight.
 
Didn’t want to post yesterday as I wanted some time to reflect on what I’d seen. Now in the cold light of day, I’m going to try and make some calm(ish) points. First, you defend as a team not just the back 4. I thought Aluko did his defensive job well yesterday but although Burns was great going forward - until he tired which I’ll get on to in a bit, his defensive work was not good enough. We were being ripped to shreds down his side and for me, he didn’t help enough. This brings me in to our central midfield. Chaplin ran around a lot but didn’t do much. Evans & Harper are not a pair and surely PC can see this. They give little going forward (Evans is 1 of the worst takers of a free kick / corner that I’ve seen) and neither do they help defensively. Morsey will clearly replace 1 of them when his suspension ends and as will probably be made captain, it will possibly be Evans - I would actually replace both and bring Carroll in as well. As it was Edmundson and Waltons 1st game, not going to criticise them. Couple of questions though. Is Coulson better than Penny? As Penny as our player rather than a loan, would be tempted to play him and secondly, is Burgess an upgrade on Wilson? I don’t think we have bad players but the team set up is not right. Then we come to the fitness levels of our players, it appears some of them are unable to play for 90 minutes. We are 6 games in now so fitness can’t be an excuse but to me, certain players tire every game. Finally (congratulations if you’ve read this far) I would like to praise the club for their swift response to a racist video made at the game yesterday. I haven’t seen it but if what I’ve read is correct, it has no place at our club or in society. Hope the offender is given a life time ban from the club
 
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itfcptc said:
Agree with majority of what you've said. For me it's more about getting in an experienced assistant in to challenge PC not necessarily about coaching in any senior position you need experienced people around you to challenge your own thoughts and ideas, he simply hasn't got that at the moment. It's also important for the players to have some experienced coaching staff to look up to.

We've definitely got the personnel in terms of playing squad, things need to turn and if they don't soon it could be curtains for Cook as he's simply taken too many risks. I think we have leaders in there but it's tough for that to come through when there have been so many changes for so many reasons.

Whilst I'm quite concerned and negative, 1 win could change things but things need to change quickly otherwise that negativity and responsibility could cause us to nose dive and we could quickly be in a relegation fight.
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He is not going to make wholesale changes to his coaching staff now. These were his judgement calls. Maybe he will bring in a new assistant, but can he see his own shortcomings?

The one big positive to me is that there is no bluff in post match interviews. He is telling it like it is, which remains refreshing after Lambert and gives me hope that he can fix what’s broken.
 
Bigalreigned said:
Although I found yesterday’s match (or especially the second half)deeply disappointing and depressing I’m not throwing my toys out of the pram yet.Two more debutants and we’re still a way off seeing our first choice eleven fielded.Yet more patience required I’m afraid.
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How long do you think we give it if we remain towards the bottom?

I looked at the stats a couple of years ago for our relegation season and if I remember correctly if you’re bottom of the table 15 games in you are pretty much doomed to relegation.
 
Roystonblue said:
Didn’t want to post yesterday as I wanted some time to reflect on what I’d seen. Now in the cold light of day, I’m going to try and make some calm(ish) points. First, you defend as a team not just the back 4. I thought Aluko did his defensive job well yesterday but although Burns was great going forward - until he tired which I’ll get on to in a bit, his defensive work was not good enough. We were being ripped to shreds down his side and for me, he didn’t help enough. This brings me in to our central midfield. Chaplin ran around a lot but didn’t do much. Evans & Harper are not a pair and surely PC can see this. They give little going forward (Evans is 1 of the worst takers of a free kick / corner that I’ve seen) and neither do they help defensively. Morsey will clearly replace 1 of them when his suspension ends and as will probably be made captain, it will possibly be Evans - I would actually replace both and bring Carroll in as well. As it was Edmundson and Waltons 1st game, not going to criticise them. Couple of questions though. Is Coulson better than Penny? As Penny as our player rather than a loan, would be tempted to play him and secondly, is Burgess an upgrade on Wilson? I don’t think we have bad players but the team set up is not right. Then we come to the fitness levels of our players, it appears some of them are unable to play for 90 minutes. We are 6 games in now so fitness can’t be an excuse but to me, certain players tire every game. Finally (congratulations if you’ve read this far) I would like to praise the club for their swift response to a racist video made at the game yesterday. I haven’t seen it but if what I’ve read is correct, it has no place at our club or in society. Hope the offender is given a life time ban from the club
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Agree with regards to defending as a team. If you want to be an attacking team or are chasing the game towards the end of the 90 mins you can accept holes in the team. Alot of the goals I've seen us concede look like it's the last few minutes of the game and players are caught up the pitch. Our CBs and CMs are too exposed, with full backs often caught high up the pitch or wingers not tracking back, for all the times I wanted to see us play with more attacking intent under Mick and Lambert we seem to have gone too far the other way under Cook and think we might need to go back to basics.

What I've seen so far Burgess is definitely an upgrade on Wilson but that's not to say we shouldn't have kept a dependable defender like him for a bit of continuity in a phase of transition.

But completely agree with your point in terms of the team not being set up right, from what I've seen the players Cook has brought in all look good players for this level and in comparison to the previous 2 seasons the majority have proven to be good players at this level or above but the balance isn't right, yes we're making individual mistake but alot of these to me look like that's because tactically we are playing a high risk game which a team only just put together is going to struggle to pull off. This style of football requires high levels of fitness and repetition on the training pitch and because they're new players who have had a disrupted preseason and haven't trained or played enough together it's not working at the moment because they aren't in that position. Cook hasn't got the basics right, in some ways this feels to me very much like it did under another scouser Jewell who tried to run before we could walk (except I do think recruitment has been better this time).
 
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Relegation didn’t happen to Bolton last season. They stuck by the manager and system and went up automatically. They play the same formation and style as us by one of Cooks former players in one of cooks previously successful sides.

All these players signed for cook. Many played together in his former championship winning teams. If he was ****, and Richardson was this behind the scenes mastermind of it all they wouldn’t have come here.

I am worried about the idea Morsy will fix everything and our lack of coaches. But equally the idea that cook had to go now is a bit short sighted.

mom sticking by Xmas as the deadline to see things clicking.

that said it took that Bolton side til feb and now they are playing the system very well indeed. Cooks system.
 
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