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If Everton beat West Ham will the BBC do a top 7?

  • Total voters
    3
  • Poll closed .
moreinjuredthanowen said:
for me the reason some compete in europe is that they take it seriously.

I find that clubs like seville and atletico have taken europa really seriously, have built thier uefa co-efficents, built their squads up and are able then to compete in a 2 game a week scenario.

It took atletico 5 years with players leaving to "bigger clubs" and them buying well to replace to get where they got to.

if the cash in spain was more spread out real and barca would not be spending 70mil on the likes of james though...

.................................

If you mean competitive = myth due to top clubs still winning everything fair enough but the point has to be made that the forbes reports on clubs show that english clubs are awash with cash.. this is why i called it the diarrhea league... (my spell check as used this spelling btw.. sue me RHC) the moeny is pouring in one end and out the other.. right into greedy ****s pockets.

If clubs took their 60 odd mil and built new training grounds and stadiums with it at least fans might point to getting something out of it but they don't really they give it out in wages and don't get any better
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Good points.

There is no doubt in my mind that the premiership is more competitive than La liga. That is definitely not saying that the premiership is superior in quality. Because it is not.

La liga has 2 huge clubs who are really far far ahead of all the others. The only team that come close to upsetting these 2 giants are Athletico Madrid. But at the start of each season (for decades now) all of Spain and europe ask: which of Real or Barca will win the title this season? Very similar to Rangers and Celtic a few years ago. It is not that surprising as they have the best players and syphon most of the Tv cash leaving little for the other smaller clubs.

The premiership also have many giant clubs but at the begining of each season, there are many candidates: City, Chelsea, Arsenal, Man U, even LFC (well we did come close last season! and based on the income and expenditure should be in there) . The fact that Man U or Arsenal or Chelsea and now City have good periods does make it any less competitive. Next season, Chelsea will be hot favourites. But there is no structural or established domination.
 
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moreinjuredthanowen said:
for me the reason some compete in europe is that they take it seriously.

I find that clubs like seville and atletico have taken europa really seriously, have built thier uefa co-efficents, built their squads up and are able then to compete in a 2 game a week scenario.

It took atletico 5 years with players leaving to "bigger clubs" and them buying well to replace to get where they got to.

if the cash in spain was more spread out real and barca would not be spending 70mil on the likes of james though...

.................................

If you mean competitive = myth due to top clubs still winning everything fair enough but the point has to be made that the forbes reports on clubs show that english clubs are awash with cash.. this is why i called it the diarrhea league... (my spell check as used this spelling btw.. sue me RHC) the moeny is pouring in one end and out the other.. right into greedy ****s pockets.

If clubs took their 60 odd mil and built new training grounds and stadiums with it at least fans might point to getting something out of it but they don't really they give it out in wages and don't get any better
Click to expand...

Didn't they both use shared ownership to their advantage too?
 
carlthejackal said:
Good points.

There is no doubt in my mind that the premiership is more competitive than La liga. That is definitely not saying that the premiership is superior in quality. Because it is not.

La liga has 2 huge clubs who are really far far ahead of all the others. The only team that come close to upsetting these 2 giants are Athletico Madrid. But at the start of each season (for decades now) all of Spain and europe ask: which of Real or Barca will win the title this season? Very similar to Rangers and Celtic a few years ago. It is not that surprising as they have the best players and syphon most of the Tv cash leaving little for the other smaller clubs.

The premiership also have many giant clubs but at the begining of each season, there are many candidates: City, Chelsea, Arsenal, Man U, even LFC (well we did come close last season! and based on the income and expenditure should be in there) . The fact that Man U or Arsenal or Chelsea and now City have good periods does make it any less competitive. Next season, Chelsea will be hot favourites. But there is no structural or established domination.
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I used to believe the myth till I looked into it.
and that is what you believed before you ever looked into it, hence you agreeing with MITO cos it fitted your already unsupported belief. :D

Humans are so fuuunnnNY <laugh>
 
Competitive and quality are two entirely different things. The Championship as been one of the most competitive leagues in the world this season, it is in no way shape or form the best quality though.
 
Gerrez said:
Competitive and quality are two entirely different things. The Championship as been one of the most competitive leagues in the world this season, it is in no way shape or form the best quality though.
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The championship always will be because you have the best teams promoted so a team or teams cannot dominate it two years running
 
Sisu said:
The championship always will be because you have the best teams promoted so a team or teams cannot dominate it two years running
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Competitiveness is nothing to do with who the teams actually are, its about not being able to predict what is going to happen because there are several teams at a similar level to each other. Just about every there are four or five teams going for automatic promotion, this year there were seven for a long period of time and there were a measly four points between them all at one stage too. That is competitive.

La Liga as the better quality at the top end of the league, the PL as the better quality at the latter end. The competitiveness for titles isn't too dissimilar in the two leagues but the PL is more competitive lower down the table. With La Liga, you can usually predict most of the results (not scoreline) whereas you can't do the same for the PL.
 
Sisu said:
I used to believe the myth till I looked into it.
and that is what you believed before you ever looked into it, hence you agreeing with MITO cos it fitted your already unsupported belief. :D

Humans are so fuuunnnNY <laugh>
Click to expand...

but i don't think the premier league is more competitive. I just feel the premier league is "fairer"

I think the premier league is lauded cos anyone can beat anyone its seems but the reality is we get beaten cos we are piss poor and can't defend or attack but we are not top 2 or 3 either.

the spanish clubs simply cannot compete at all so you have a lower half battle and a top 2 battle then you have a few in the middle who are big stadiums and top half and can do something in europe but will very very rarely win the league or cup at hom.

In england there are more competitions so its harder for even a top 2 club to win them all so then sometimes a top 4 side like arsenal win the cup ;) chelsea won two domestic trophies this year. last year city won the same two.

I just feel barca might as well be playing accringotn stanley as getafe as the disparity is huge.

We played hull yesterday. hull pulled in 67 million in tv money. getfae 18mil... Of course this allows hull attracts a player like dawson from a bigger club just for wages who then scored against us but it doesn't make them any better a team.

it just makes thier players richer

I could however see a case where a team like oh i dunno... pick a city like Birmingham. 2nd biggest city in england. They could if they were run properly take that moeny, build a big assed stadium and academy (72.6mil in tv moeny FFS) take next 5-10 years and end up with enough revenues to compete. thats the ideal... southampton might even be an early example of a team start that journey i don't know.... fairer? maybe, competitvie no.

But I simply cannot see a team in Spain rising to compete with Barca and Real. Athletico managed it but i can see it all going away relatively fast and seville are trying. but the power of money speaks and they will get robbed of players and its too hard to keep going year on year on year.
 
moreinjuredthanowen said:
But I simply cannot see a team in Spain rising to compete with Barca and Real. Athletico managed it but i can see it all going away relatively fast and seville are trying. but the power of money speaks and they will get robbed of players and its too hard to keep going year on year on year.
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Similar situation in Germany. While a team can occasionally compete with Bayern, no team has been able to do so consistently for a long time. Dortmund have come closest in recent years, but never really looked like winning the league the last couple of seasons, and look at them now (though I expect them to do better again next season, depending on what happens in the summer).
 
moreinjuredthanowen said:
but i don't think the premier league is more competitive. I just feel the premier league is "fairer"

I think the premier league is lauded cos anyone can beat anyone its seems but the reality is we get beaten cos we are piss poor and can't defend or attack but we are not top 2 or 3 either.

the spanish clubs simply cannot compete at all so you have a lower half battle and a top 2 battle then you have a few in the middle who are big stadiums and top half and can do something in europe but will very very rarely win the league or cup at hom.

In england there are more competitions so its harder for even a top 2 club to win them all so then sometimes a top 4 side like arsenal win the cup ;) chelsea won two domestic trophies this year. last year city won the same two.

I just feel barca might as well be playing accringotn stanley as getafe as the disparity is huge.

We played hull yesterday. hull pulled in 67 million in tv money. getfae 18mil... Of course this allows hull attracts a player like dawson from a bigger club just for wages who then scored against us but it doesn't make them any better a team.

it just makes thier players richer

I could however see a case where a team like oh i dunno... pick a city like Birmingham. 2nd biggest city in england. They could if they were run properly take that moeny, build a big assed stadium and academy (72.6mil in tv moeny FFS) take next 5-10 years and end up with enough revenues to compete. thats the ideal... southampton might even be an early example of a team start that journey i don't know.... fairer? maybe, competitvie no.

But I simply cannot see a team in Spain rising to compete with Barca and Real. Athletico managed it but i can see it all going away relatively fast and seville are trying. but the power of money speaks and they will get robbed of players and its too hard to keep going year on year on year.
Click to expand...

It is all interlinked. The payment is more equitably shared, thus making it fairer. This also leads to a more competitive league. It is unpredictable. City was at the top last year but could have been Chelsea or ourselves. Next season, it could be the Mancs competing with Chelsea and Arsenal and may be even City.

The distribution of money in Spain may make the other teams less competitive as they cannot hope to get the same quality of players as the 2 Uber clubs . But it has also a wider impact on the CL competition. Because Madrid and Barca syphon off such a huge % of the Tv revenues, they can afford to acquire the most expensive players like Messi, Ronaldo, Suarez, james etc. With a more equitable distribution in Spain, their ability to hoover all the world class players could be affected leading to less dominance of the Cl too.
 
I think IN GENERAL the same old names will be up there it just depends on waht mess they've made of themselves.

eg. chelsea sacked mourinho and appointed awful dross... got anchelotti and stupidly sacked him too... they've calmed down now. If they'd stuck with either I'd wonde rif city would have or utd would have won as many. Utd has two virtually unopposed in that period

Utd are going to be up there cos astro says so [HASHTAG]#no1[/HASHTAG] spend on wages and fees.

city are johnny come latelys on inflated wages and fees that are not curtailed so they need to develop IMO over next 5 years commercially.

I fully expect to see Cheslea and utd at the top just like barca and real with arsenal doing the usual like an atletico or valencia and city hanging round stinking up the place with high wages and nobody cares

I think after that sure its very unpredictable... who'd predict everton falling apart?

but I do feel its faier as today southamton said they have a 5 year target to CL. I think they can do it if they take those shed loads of cash, don't pay players it but expand st mary's keep doing what they are doing in academy and then when they are able expand squad and really go for it.

Spurs are the same, unitl they get in a huge stadium they are not going any further end of...
 
You only see 17 of the La Liga clubs once or twice a season so the reality is, nobody has enough knowledge to know how competitive it is.

When you do see them, 8 out of 10 times they tend to be on the receiving end of a 6, 7 or 8 goal hammering in which they had 2% possession and made 1 pass (unsuccessfully) all game.

Thats la liga, most weeks, most years.
 
Sisu said:
Yeah that chart totally shows the PL is more competitive than La Liga <doh> 2 of those titles were the first divison too
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Just because it's had a team win more than the rest doesn't make it not competitive <doh>

for exanple...

If a league had 3 teams within a point of eah other at the top but the same team won it for 4 years Id say that was more competitive than a league where in 4 years 1 team won it 3 teams but by a distance of 15 points and the one other time another team won it.

Its about the whole league.. You're pretty much saying the Scottish league is more competitive because at least that has 2 teams winning the majority in the last 30 years totally disregarding how the rest of the league is pants.
 
Sisu said:
That was never the argument you dope <laugh>

Neither the PL nor La Liga are competitive unless you are one of a few few clubs.
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See this his is where you and everyone else's definition of competitiveness differs. You talk purely titles, everyone else talks the season game by game.
 
moreinjuredthanowen said:
for me the reason some compete in europe is that they take it seriously.

I find that clubs like seville and atletico have taken europa really seriously, have built thier uefa co-efficents, built their squads up and are able then to compete in a 2 game a week scenario.

It took atletico 5 years with players leaving to "bigger clubs" and them buying well to replace to get where they got to.

if the cash in spain was more spread out real and barca would not be spending 70mil on the likes of james though...

.................................

If you mean competitive = myth due to top clubs still winning everything fair enough but the point has to be made that the forbes reports on clubs show that english clubs are awash with cash.. this is why i called it the diarrhea league... (my spell check as used this spelling btw.. sue me RHC) the moeny is pouring in one end and out the other.. right into greedy ****s pockets.

If clubs took their 60 odd mil and built new training grounds and stadiums with it at least fans might point to getting something out of it but they don't really they give it out in wages and don't get any better
Click to expand...

Also they take it serious because tr money they get form the league isn't as huge as we get. If the money in the prem wasn't as great, pressure to finish in it wouldn't be as high so having a good cup run would be seen as huge compared to here where it's used as a 'distraction' that could hurt your league form possibly sending you down.
 
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