Are English managers useless ...

[Smug in Boots]

... or just have bad luck.

There's a theory that the only thing holding back English managers is 'unglamourous names'.

Yet the top clubs, who win things, have foreign managers, even the FA Cup is dominated by them.

There's been one English win in over 20 years, Portsmouth, who beat Championship teams in the semi and final.

Leicester peddled Pearson and an Italian won the League, now Lampard made way for a man who's won the Champions League.

What I saw last night was England have less possession and shots than Austria with only four on target efforts.

Even when England win, which is quite often, it's rarely impressive or exciting.

Are foreign managers better and, if so, why?

 

[Oliver's Army]

Personally I think it stems from the mindset of the players. There aren't many English players that play abroad and get that experience of different cultures and playing styles and then that filters up to managers. They only have experience of the English game.

How many France players, for example, play in foreign leagues? Tuchel has managed in 3 countries already and will no doubt get the Germany job at some point.

 

[Smug in Boots]

Personally I think it stems from the mindset of the players. There aren't many English players that play abroad and get that experience of different cultures and playing styles and then that filters up to managers. They only have experience of the English game.

How many France players, for example, play in foreign leagues? Tuchel has managed in 3 countries already and will no doubt get the Germany job at some point.

It's puzzling when English coaches people like Tony Adams, McClaren and Barton show such an aptitude for foreign languages

We certainly have a lot to offer ...

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[Millfield Maestro 1879]

Foreign clubs generally have a process for young coaches to work through each level up until the first team so the opportunities are far greater and it also ties in with club philosophy. We don't have a process at club level here, we hire names.

Lampard, Rooney are perfect examples really. Massive names but have no right to be coaches at big clubs yet..

The Fa are trying to change it for the national team but they will struggle as the public will demand a big name, rather than the best coach

 

[Oliver's Army]

It's puzzling when English coaches people like Tony Adams, McClaren and Barton show such an aptitude for foreign languages

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That's part of the problem as well. In the main, us English don't really put the effort in to integrate/learn the languages etc. (there are exceptions of course). I went to uni and there was a kid from Egypt there, he was younger than me and could speak Spanish, Italian, English, Arabic and a bit of German.

 

[Oliver's Army]

I think we would have a better chance of winning an international tournament if 15 or so of the players had a good few years experience at say, Madrid, Barcelona, Munich, PSG, Juventus etc. It would be great to see 3 or 4 English players lift the champions League as key players for 'insert foreign teams name here'.

I know we have had the likes of Platt, Ince, Owen, macmanaman, Beckham in the past but its always just the odd one or 2

 

[Smug in Boots]

That's part of the problem as well. In the main, us English don't really put the effort in to integrate/learn the languages etc. (there are exceptions of course). I went to uni and there was a kid from Egypt there, he was younger than me and could speak Spanish, Italian, English, Arabic and a bit of German.

During my time in France you'd see 8 year old English kids, obviously born locally, ordering for their parents in restaurants.

The saddest thing was that the parents weren't at all embarrassed and actually found it funny.

I enjoyed speaking French and would always argue in the local language and slang when appropriate

 

[Oliver's Army]

During my time in France you'd see 8 year old English kids, obviously born locally, ordering for their parents in restaurants.

The saddest thing was that the parents weren't at all embarrassed and actually found it funny.

I enjoyed speaking French and would always argue in the local language and slang when appropriate

If I ever lived abroad I'd definitely take the time to learn the language, out of courtesy of nothing else.

 

[Smug in Boots]

If I ever lived abroad I'd definitely take the time to learn the language, out of courtesy of nothing else.

Doesn't take a lot does it mate.

No one expects you to be totally fluent, just make a polite effort no matter how clumsy.

We had 2 months in Corsica so I learned a few basics of their language as they hate French, sadly we found there are two distinct Corsican dialects ...

... we learned the usual 'hello, goodbye, two pints please' in the North and got some dirty looks using them in the South

 

[The Exile II]

It's improving slowly, but we still don't breed 'em clever. Players or managers.

Watch our Euro game with Croatia coming up. Teams work us out but we rarely do the same. If plan A doesn't work we're always in bother because we don't have the mental flexibility.

 

[Disco down under]

I don't quite understand this to be honest.

There isn't one you would consider world class. There isn't even one you'd consider a scrappy upstart contender.

Who is the best English manager currently? Southgate? Howe? Bruce? Smith?

**** me. What an absolute shower of ****e.

Italy, Spain, and Germany absolutely put us to shame.

 

[FellTop]

Plenty of good English coaches in my opinion. There is a usual suspect list from Europe that keep getting appointed based on past glories - read Ancelloti and Mourinho. Ancelloti failed at Everton yet gets Madrid.

 

[Smug in Boots]

I don't quite understand this to be honest.

There isn't one you would consider world class. There isn't even one you'd consider a scrappy upstart contender.

Who is the best English manager currently? Southgate? Howe? Bruce? Smith?

**** me. What an absolute shower of ****e.

Italy, Spain, and Germany absolutely put us to shame.

It's the 'island mentality' in my opinion, Brexit will just make it worse.

 

[Smug in Boots]

Plenty of good English coaches in my opinion. There is a usual suspect list from Europe that keep getting appointed based on past glories - read Ancelloti and Mourinho. Ancelloti failed at Everton yet gets Madrid.

As opposed to 'no glories' in the case of English managers ...

... clubs are bound to give jobs to managers who've won something rather than nothing.

 

[Ozzymac]

I think it comes down to mindset of both the club owners and the FA.

Nowadays the PL where most of the England squad is chosen from has an influx of foreign players and managers so the English players are exposed to the different playing and training techniques.

The problem comes at national level where i feel there's still an ingrained perception that the manager must be English. If that's the case then fine, have an English manager but surround him with the best tacticians ans coaches the world has to offer.

If you look at the current structures around the successful clubs and countrys the "manager" is actually just a head coach and effectively a figurehead.

 

[FellTop]

As opposed to 'no glories' in the case of English managers ...

... clubs are bound to give jobs to managers who've won something rather than nothing.

So how do you win the first?

Gerard is showing what is possible.

Most owners at the top male vanity appointments.

 

[Draig]

During my time in France you'd see 8 year old English kids, obviously born locally, ordering for their parents in restaurants.

The saddest thing was that the parents weren't at all embarrassed and actually found it funny.

I enjoyed speaking French and would always argue in the local language and slang when appropriate

After 30 yrs in Britain my Sister-in-law's (Italian) parents could barely speak English.

One of my old girlfriend's had a Polish mother who had lived in Britain for 25 years and still spoke no English.

The Polish family that bought my old house had been here for 10 years. Monika and the children all speak English very well, yet Roman, the husband, doesn't speak any English.

I guess some people just don't do foreign languages.

 

[Gil T Azell]

During my time in France you'd see 8 year old English kids, obviously born locally, ordering for their parents in restaurants.

The saddest thing was that the parents weren't at all embarrassed and actually found it funny.

I enjoyed speaking French and would always argue in the local language and slang when appropriate

That wouldnt be in sign language with your fists would it?

 

[OldNewtown]

That wouldnt be in sign language with your fists would it?

No no no that's a universal language @Smug in Boots did specify local language

 

[Millfield Maestro 1879]

I don't quite understand this to be honest.

There isn't one you would consider world class. There isn't even one you'd consider a scrappy upstart contender.

Who is the best English manager currently? Southgate? Howe? Bruce? Smith?

**** me. What an absolute shower of ****e.

Italy, Spain, and Germany absolutely put us to shame.

Graham Potter seems to be the next outstanding coach. Won't be popular as he is at Brighton but tactically excellent and plays good football