Long way to go but there's so much potential. That's the scary things there's still lots of room for improvement
Match Day Thread Anyone fancy predicting the score for Chelsea?
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Long way to go but there's so much potential. That's the scary things there's still lots of room for improvement
An outstanding result. I was mentally & physically exhausted and wasnt even at PR!
IMO we now have a better chance of staying up. What a difference it.will make for attracting the right quality of players in January.
Massive night for Club, staff, players and us loyal fans. Wish I could have been there.
IMO we now have a better chance of staying up. What a difference it.will make for attracting the right quality of players in January.
Massive night for Club, staff, players and us loyal fans. Wish I could have been there.
Not sure if I am !
I just remember listening to Danny Baker on the original 606 radio show, when he did a topic on things you had done when your team had won and did you feel the need to continue them to keep the winning streak going.
Obviously completely bonkers to think that a new person doing a thread on an online football forum could influence a result.
But as Nuggets says let's get someone else to do the next one
Just watched the game, got sidetracked earlier in the day and forgot to watch it live.
First I want to say....**** yeah!
That, after the dogged performance against Arsenal, was the display of a manager and a team who finally ****in' get it.
When McK first came in it was all about being hard to beat first, the quality moves will come later. Well guess what, we're back at that point again as a team that are back in the top division after a long absence, and today actually looked as though we finally understood our place in the league heirachy and what it takes to get results.
We're not terrible in attack, we can get through teams, but the softness at the back has cost us frequently this season. The last two games have altered that with a change of shape making us more solid.
Happy that Walton was back in because, don't know why and I'm sure many others got the same feeling, I was just comfortable with him in goal. He claimed stuff, he looked for quick releases, he made great saves, I was just happy he was there. I felt good, and I'd missed that feeling about the keeper this season.
I'm with ptc on his recent assessments, Woolfy helps the team play out from the back better. I also agree with him about Greaves getting caught out of position too often but, he did also do a lot of good things in the game that shouldn't be overlooked.
Delap was a beast, Hutch ran all damn day and seemed to have a fire in the belly today! Broady was more effective than Jack or Sammie have been lately but I thought Szmodics came on and got stuck right in.
You can go right through the team and say that everybody did a job today, not always the prettiest, and a far cry from winning so often in the past couple of seasons, but I'll say it again....that performance was one that makes me think we're understanding where we're at, and what it takes to get results.
First I want to say....**** yeah!
That, after the dogged performance against Arsenal, was the display of a manager and a team who finally ****in' get it.
When McK first came in it was all about being hard to beat first, the quality moves will come later. Well guess what, we're back at that point again as a team that are back in the top division after a long absence, and today actually looked as though we finally understood our place in the league heirachy and what it takes to get results.
We're not terrible in attack, we can get through teams, but the softness at the back has cost us frequently this season. The last two games have altered that with a change of shape making us more solid.
Happy that Walton was back in because, don't know why and I'm sure many others got the same feeling, I was just comfortable with him in goal. He claimed stuff, he looked for quick releases, he made great saves, I was just happy he was there. I felt good, and I'd missed that feeling about the keeper this season.
I'm with ptc on his recent assessments, Woolfy helps the team play out from the back better. I also agree with him about Greaves getting caught out of position too often but, he did also do a lot of good things in the game that shouldn't be overlooked.
Delap was a beast, Hutch ran all damn day and seemed to have a fire in the belly today! Broady was more effective than Jack or Sammie have been lately but I thought Szmodics came on and got stuck right in.
You can go right through the team and say that everybody did a job today, not always the prettiest, and a far cry from winning so often in the past couple of seasons, but I'll say it again....that performance was one that makes me think we're understanding where we're at, and what it takes to get results.
Oh yeah, time to gloat, I called it - 2 bloody 0 Ipswich!!!!!!;
Tactics last two games were spot on. We needed to be better defensive, especially after Newcastle.
Possible issue now is, having the five at the back makes us, in my opinion, less of a threat up front (moreso against "lesser" teams).It worked perfectly last night as we could break with pace, and power.
But will K Mc keep the same system/formation or revert back to the 4231 against Fulham? Interesting call to be made.
Possible issue now is, having the five at the back makes us, in my opinion, less of a threat up front (moreso against "lesser" teams).It worked perfectly last night as we could break with pace, and power.
But will K Mc keep the same system/formation or revert back to the 4231 against Fulham? Interesting call to be made.
Agreed. McKenna's switch in formation and tactics was a sign of a great manager. No real ego or pride, McKenna realised that Newcastle defeat and some of the others came from a leaky defence that couldn't build a team attack. He could have been like several managers in this division and been wedded to a winning system and formation and stubbornly refuse to change - but he's willing to make big calls like that.
The back three works for me because they complement one another well and provides more protection. In our recent defeats, our previous back four consistently struggled to play the ball out when pressed. We then had the issue of our full-backs pushing up the pitch too high and leaving gaps. For example, against Newcastle, Davis was continuously caught out a possession too high up the pitch. Jacob Murphy, not the most lethal of players in this league, had an absolute field day exploiting that space and giving Burgess the run-around (Burgess has many strengths, but pace and mobility is definitely not one of them). I'd say that was on Davis more than Burgess, but McKenna definitely saw that and realised something had to change.
With the three - and particularly with Woolfenden there to cover for when Greaves pushes forwards - I think we handle the opposition press much better. Woolfenden can slow the game down when it needs to be and is an effective last line of defence to cover Greaves and O'Shea and allow them to push up the pitch and start moves. Woolfie was the best defender on the pitch for me last night.
Greaves had a positive start to the season, but Burgess played well in Greaves' absence. But I always think the plan was to start Greaves. He's younger and I believe Burgess is out of contract this summer. Most notably, Greaves is much more mobile than Burgess, he gets forward quicker, and he's more composed on the ball. He links up particularly well with Cajuste and Davis.
I have to keep reminding myself Dara O'Shea is only 25, he plays like a much more experienced player. With the exception of Tuanzebe, I'd say O'Shea has looked our consistently best defender in the Premier League. The fact he's playing in an unfamiliar half-centre-back/half-right-back type role against two top opponents, and played well both times, is a credit to both him and the team. He's also one of the more vocal players on the pitch - in a team where we don't really have many 'leaders'.
I'd say keep the current formation. I'd even say name an unchanged starting line up against Fulham, if fitness allows. Walton, Greaves, and Broadhead deserve the chance to make those places their own. Also, Wes Burns! Start him again against Fulham. A bit of a thankless defensive role for him last night, but I thought he was solid and put in his best performance of the season.
To be honest, today was 4-2-3-1 in attack, 5-2-3 in defence with Burns dropping back and O'Shea moving across. I don't think you should read too much into our defensive shape as today, our shape changed when we were going forward. Hoping this may be some kind of recipe to success.
I agree it's a tough one. Because Delap and Hutchinson were outstanding going forward last night and I wouldn't expect them to be able to replicate that every game (they couldn't against Arsenal) and would result in us being really blunt moving forwards. If we're playing that formation we really need to consider how we get more control of the ball and get players quickly up the pitch.
Also interesting that despite the millions of pounds we've spent on players Woolfenden and Broadhead improved our on the ball play.
When Tuanzebe is fit it'll be really interesting to see how McKenna plays it. We've got Greaves, Woolfenden, O'Shea, Tuanzebe and Burgess who at some point this season have all been outstanding and all have very different attributes.
O'Shea for me is Mr consistent, he barely puts a foot wrong and think Greaves can learn alot from him in terms of timing as they're both agressive players....Woolfenden and Burgess tend to stand off and intercept more. But I'm not convinced from an offensive point of view that O'Shea brings enough playing the right side of a back 3. If we're going to make this work think we're going to have to see more on the ball from him and Greaves.
The other alternative to be more solid is to play a flat back 4 with Davis being a defender first and foremost....the problem is doing that takes away one of our biggest threats, he creates the most chances for our team.
Whatever happens if we're playing well i don't want to see the team chopped and changed too much. Have to say though the players who've been left out cold and come back in have stepped up nearly everytime. Especially those who aren't used to the level it's absolutely exceptional. For Woolfenden to come back into the team and perform against 2 of the best sides in the world..outstanding.
The development of these players from league 1 to beating a multi billion pound squad with the majority of the same team is unbelievable.
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The thing with Burns and Davis is they have great energy and capacity to bomb forwards and get back for large periods of the match. The level of running from those 2 plus Hutchinson last night was unbelievable.
Full credit to the players, who have stepped up to two of the best sides in the Premier League and relished the challenge. Yes, we're in the relegation zone and we've certainly lacked quality in several games this season - but only Newcastle really outplayed us from start to finish and gave us a thrashing. West Ham was more from a series of self-inflicted mistakes and Man City had a seven minute spell where everything Haaland hit went in.
And of course he's flown under the radar a bit when we talk about the players, but McKenna is the key ingredient again. He knows this squad and has us competing in games week-in, week-out. The dressing room and 'culture' (hate the word in a sport/corporate context, personally, but fits here) is still strong. It would've been easy for players to get disheartened and down tools after a run of losses. Things could have turned sour with an 'us and them' mentality between the core players and the new summer signings. You could even sympathise with McKenna if he had the odd sleepless night wondering if a move to Brighton or Chelsea would've been better for him, after some gut punch results where we dropped points and couldn't see a game out. But he's kept this squad together, kept morale high, and inspired our players to adapt to the top flight and play well. Watching them on the pitch week-in, week-out - there doesn't appear to be any bad apples. They are one team, and that's the way it should be.
In terms of nailed on starters - Davis, O'Shea, Tuanzebe, Morsy, Cajuste, Hutchinson, and Delap are arguably the core players who, if fit, should start every match. For me, they've been the most consistent and impressive players in this division. Then there are first team spots up for grabs but with some players fancying their chances of nailing down a regular spot off the back of the last two performances. Walton, Woolfenden, Greaves, Burns, and Broadhead top that list after the Arsenal/Chelsea games.
The main factor that makes me uncertain we can stay up is squad depth. Sorry to bang the drum, but I believe only the two Jacks (Clarke and Taylor) have come off the bench to contribute to a goal this season (ignoring Delap being brought on to score against Brentford):
I'd like to see a centre-forward brought in on loan. Al-Hamadi isn't up to it and needs a loan move to the Championship. Hirst has done well when played, but is injury prone. I think an alternative version of Delap - powerful runner and a strong finisher - would significantly improve this squad. That type of player is a big ask, but possibly Evan Ferguson at Brighton (linked previously) fits the profile for a loan move.
I'd like us to move for a central midfielder by returning Phillips (hopefully saving a few bob in the process) and bringing somebody in like a Morsy - strong and combative to give us some bite. Again, this can be a loan.
Finally, a bit more depth on the right hand side would be nice. For me, Tuanzebe is big miss and there are no guarantees he'll come back fit anytime soon. Ogbene is also done for the season. Johnson has looked okay wide right, but struggles as an out-and-out right back. We've questioned Burns all season - hopefully last night was a sign he's improving rather than a one-off. So, potentially a right wing-back who is a threat going forwards (reducing the creative burden on Hutchinson), as well as having that defensive nous and stamina to get back, would be a positive addition.
I agree with areas for improvement, I'd hope we sign a midfielder permanently though as it's the area we are reliant on loans.
But I do think Hutchinson has often been disappointing this season, decision making often poor. He was a lot better last night but still a couple of occasions made the wrong choice and held onto the ball for too long. Also if Hirst would've been fit despite some of Delaps monumental performances I think he would've played more. When Delap isn't on his game, we're quite flat uptop whereas I've generally found Hirst still impacts on the game.
Both Hutchinson and Delap with lots of room for improvement and still so young. Often their performances rely on their own individual brilliance rather than bringing the best out of others and helping our forward line look balanced and fluid. McKenna made reference to this after the Brentford performance where he played Hirst and Chaplin.
Even last night we saw a difference with Broadhead being in the team, the positions he took up, knowing when to release the ball and also the movement...his movement when Delap had the ball created the space for Hutchinson. I've definitely noticed improvement in his overall 'Team' game but certainly still an area others in the team show greater strength in.
I was convinced early on in the season Hutchinson could play anywhere across the front 3 positions we play however as the season has progressed I'm certainly joining others in thinking his best position is wide right and there are other who are better suited to the 10 role (potentially even Szmodics who we haven't seen there yet and maybe even Taylor).
Maybe not at this level but I've also felt Harry Clarke could play a role on the right either further forwards.
Also if we play 3 CBs at some point is McKenna going to get caught out not having at least 1 on the bench?
But I do think Hutchinson has often been disappointing this season, decision making often poor. He was a lot better last night but still a couple of occasions made the wrong choice and held onto the ball for too long. Also if Hirst would've been fit despite some of Delaps monumental performances I think he would've played more. When Delap isn't on his game, we're quite flat uptop whereas I've generally found Hirst still impacts on the game.
Both Hutchinson and Delap with lots of room for improvement and still so young. Often their performances rely on their own individual brilliance rather than bringing the best out of others and helping our forward line look balanced and fluid. McKenna made reference to this after the Brentford performance where he played Hirst and Chaplin.
Even last night we saw a difference with Broadhead being in the team, the positions he took up, knowing when to release the ball and also the movement...his movement when Delap had the ball created the space for Hutchinson. I've definitely noticed improvement in his overall 'Team' game but certainly still an area others in the team show greater strength in.
I was convinced early on in the season Hutchinson could play anywhere across the front 3 positions we play however as the season has progressed I'm certainly joining others in thinking his best position is wide right and there are other who are better suited to the 10 role (potentially even Szmodics who we haven't seen there yet and maybe even Taylor).
Maybe not at this level but I've also felt Harry Clarke could play a role on the right either further forwards.
Also if we play 3 CBs at some point is McKenna going to get caught out not having at least 1 on the bench?
Hutchinson - like all our attacking players, really - hasn't been able to build a consistent run of good performances week-in, week-out. As a newly promoted club at this level, that's an unfair expectation anyway. As you say, he's still young and learning at this level - but I think there's a top player in there. His ball control and dribbling has helped him fit into the Premier League, but his decision making needs further improvement. Often, at times, I think he feels the need to do too much and play 'the hero'. He was much better against Chelsea than Arsenal - where I think the crowd got to him - so hopefully can take that experience into a more forgiving (but still tough) two-game stretch against Fulham and Brighton. If we're playing two number 10s in front of a back five, I think we need him in there - mainly for his link-up play with Delap.
Chaplin's had some good performances - Brentford and Bournemouth spring to mind - but there have also been games where he's done next to nothing and been bullied out of matches - such as Newcastle and Forest. I'm surprised we didn't see him come on last night, he's a good option for the number 10 role. It might be harsh, but I wonder if McKenna sees him as a more reliable option against bottom half Premier League clubs, but doesn't quite trust him to stamp his authority in games against tougher opposition - he wasn't brought on against Arsenal either.
For me, Delap has played an integral role in why we're only a point from safety. Take him out of this team, and I can't see where the goals would come from. We'd likely be in the same boat, or worse, as Southampton. He's 21, playing his first regular run of Premier League games, and he's averaging almost a goal every other game in an 18th place side. He's undoubtedly a great talent - but still rough around the edges and far from a finished article. The big clubs know we have a real talent on our hands here. We would do very well to keep him beyond the summer. And if we're serious about survival, we should certainly not sell him in January.
Hirst has had a couple of good performances, but outside of that first half against Brentford, I've yet to see him really impress with his movement and become a reliable goal threat. You might say that's not his game. Fair enough. His strengths are holding up the ball and linking up with the other attacking players. But if the attacking midfielders aren't getting space and influencing games - as has often been the case this season - then Hirst's strengths are nullified. With Delap, we have a player accomplished at taking games by the scruff of the neck and driving the ball forwards, beating defenders, and scoring goals. Even against the best teams in the division. If Hirst had been fit, he'd have played a load more minutes and hopefully adapted to the Premier League. Hopefully he would've scored a couple more too. And Delap would have benefitted from that. Currently, Delap's not always on his game because he's had to run his a*** off for 80 odd minutes every match because we don't have a good, available back-up striker. If Hirst had been available, Delap's workload would have been managed a lot better and we might have seen even more goals from him. Currently, Al-Hamadi hasn't positively changed a game whenever he's come on.