ALL three of the remaining bidders for Rangers have refused to rule out liquidation

[rogueleader]

Not at all mate.

No-one here is disputing Leeds have kept their history. Leeds company only came into existance in 2007.

Its the whole thing about the business (the club) and the company being different.

ok , I think we have come to an impasse.....sterling effort, but we`re in a chalk/cheese interface here ;

tbh , I think liquidation is the most likely outcome - but obviously by no means definate - ; rangers supporters will claim an unbroken lineage, celtic supporters will take the opposite view and no one else will give a flying ****....and ultimately no authority/governing body will touch this particular can of worms with a barge-pole for fear of setting one or other precedent.


That said, the red-card protest from rangers fans does show the extent of the worry many of your fellow bears have

 

[rogueleader]

.....a fitting subject for easter...resurrection and all that

 

[Mitre_Mouldmaster]

http://www.scotprem.com/content/mediaassets/doc/SPL Articles as at 15-Apr-10 (CURRENT).pdf

go on.

It is his interpretation. Nothing more.

SPl voting structures mean it can't happen. There is at least one team that is going to tell you to get to steppin.

On that basis It can't be transferred. Won't be transferred. Will not be transferred.

You Bass!

You actually did have me worried with this one! lol

Seriously though, I really cant see us being denied the league share.

 

[Mitre_Mouldmaster]

They will die. You can start a new club. Wear blue, be stupid. All the things that you are now. Just don't expect anyone to believe you when you say you are loyal when you are cheering for a new club.

They wont die. You dont need to start a new club, will just buy the old one. Everyone will believe us cause we are the people! (I say that mockingly, Im not a fan of that phrase!).

Anyway, its been a real pain debating with you. The fingers in the ears Nah Nah Nah approach is always a hard one to break down!

Think we can call it a win for me though.

Anyway, have a good one and enjoy your league title. We want it back next year (for number 55, newco or not!)

 

[Mitre_Mouldmaster]

ok , I think we have come to an impasse.....sterling effort, but we`re in a chalk/cheese interface here ;

tbh , I think liquidation is the most likely outcome - but obviously by no means definate - ; rangers supporters will claim an unbroken lineage, celtic supporters will take the opposite view and no one else will give a flying ****....and ultimately no authority/governing body will touch this particular can of worms with a barge-pole for fear of setting one or other precedent.
That said, the red-card protest from rangers fans does show the extent of the worry many of your fellow bears have

To be honest mate, you are pretty spot on with your comments!

Only thing I would debate is that I think Uefa will settle it for us. We will have one page on their site and it will show the continuous history.

Unfortunately for us, the page will probably be filled with mug shots of guys Uefa are looking for on hooligan charges!

To be honest, I dont really care what the other fans do, my preffered route is CVA, but it might work out better if its a Pre-Pack.

I was posting on Rangers Media earlier and because I explained how a pre-pack would work and how we would keep our history, I was labelled a tim (well, not in those exact words) for even bringing up NewCo as an option.

They are doing their usual head in the sand, we are the people defence! Thats done us so well in the last couple of years!

 

[RebelBhoy]

You can call it a win for you if you like.

It is not going to change the fact that when Rangers are liquidated they are finished.

A new club will be formed. Maybe more than one? Who can say? They will instantly become the least successful club in the world.

Should the new club somehow weazel its way into the SPL, I look forward to beating them on the three occasions we shall play.
Should sense prevail and the new club start its existence in the bottom tier, as all new clubs should, then the best of luck to them.

It won't trouble me. As Celtic march on to their 50th or 51st title, whatever that number ends up being.

I admire the way you steadfastly stuck to your point despite having little or no grasp of the reality of the situation.

Liquidation = death. A simple and accurate equation that could have saved you a whole lot of bother.

 

[RebelBhoy]

You Bass!

You actually did have me worried with this one! lol

Seriously though, I really cant see us being denied the league share.

Who is "us"?

Do you support a club that doesn't even exist yet?

 

[RebelBhoy]

All this effort by D&P to sell the club is a waste of time.

Why not just liquidate. That way you don't have to erm........liquidate......

http://www.scotsman.com/news/rangers-administration-easy-to-get-lost-in-moral-maze-1-2223157



Timing is everything.

Never before have I typed read it and weep....and actually meant read it and weep.

to be honest, I can't recall ever having typed read it and weep. ........Or for that matter feeling quite so triumphant about something that is so bloody obvious.

 

[eric cartman]

Oh sorry!

Think I picked you up wrong! So you are saying that none of the NewCos actually retained their history? Leeds, Fiorentina, Luton for example?

No, But they legally cant add to it as they broke the timeline unlike a name change.

As the courts see it rangers founded in 1872 traded for 140 years won 54 titles. Liquidated in 2012, now cease to exist and you no longer can claim monies from the club as its dead. So if you win another title its not number 55 its Rangers (oldco) number 54 and Rangers (newco) number 1.

You may own the rangers (oldco) history but you are not able to add to it anymore. As allistair Johnston would put it "have your cake and eating it, you cant".

 

[Mitre_Mouldmaster]

All this effort by D&P to sell the club is a waste of time.

Why not just liquidate. That way you don't have to erm........liquidate......

http://www.scotsman.com/news/rangers-administration-easy-to-get-lost-in-moral-maze-1-2223157



Timing is everything.

Never before have I typed read it and weep....and actually meant read it and weep.

to be honest, I can't recall ever having typed read it and weep. ........Or for that matter feeling quite so triumphant about something that is so bloody obvious.

"The administrator is required by paragraph 3 of Schedule B1 to the Insolvency Act 1986 (the 1986 Act) to perform their functions with the objective of achieving the three-tier statutory purpose of the administration. The statutory purpose is important for creditors to bear in mind as an administrator will be acting with a view to achieving it. Whether it is achieved therefore provides an indicator of whether the administrator is doing a good job – although in some cases it may not be possible to achieve it, no matter what steps and actions an administrator takes.

The administrator must initially perform their functions with a view to achieving the first tier, which is to rescue the company as a going concern. Potential purchasers are often unwilling to buy the shares of a company in administration as this would involve them taking on the liabilities of the insolvent company. Consequently, in practice, this first limb is rarely achieved."

The administrators have a responsibility to try and save the company, so they have to be seen to be trying to sell it first.

http://www.inhouselawyer.co.uk/inde...trators-who-are-they-and-what-are-your-rights

 

[Mitre_Mouldmaster]

No, But they legally cant add to it as they broke the timeline unlike a name change.

As the courts see it rangers founded in 1872 traded for 140 years won 54 titles. Liquidated in 2012, now cease to exist and you no longer can claim monies from the club as its dead. So if you win another title its not number 55 its Rangers (oldco) number 54 and Rangers (newco) number 1.

You may own the rangers (oldco) history but you are not able to add to it anymore. As allistair Johnston would put it "have your cake and eating it, you cant".

I would disagree.

You are correct on the length of time the company would have been trading, as trading is legally recognised against the company not the club.

However, the NewCo can claim to have a timeline back to the inception of the club, as long as the club has been bought in the form of the goodwill from the previous company. If the club can legally clain to have been founded in in the 19th centuary, as you admitted earlier, and is continuing to flourish today then it has obviously kept its history. During this history, the club that has never ceased existing, would have won may titles. These would all still be valid.

 

[eric cartman]

I would disagree.

You are correct on the length of time the company would have been trading, as trading is legally recognised against the company not the club.

However, the NewCo can claim to have a timeline back to the inception of the club, as long as the club has been bought in the form of the goodwill from the previous company. If the club can legally clain to have been founded in in the 19th centuary, as you admitted earlier, and is continuing to flourish today then it has obviously kept its history. During this history, the club that has never ceased existing, would have won may titles. These would all still be valid.

Afraid not as legally it would now be classed as two seperate entities. Thats is why no one can claim monies due from the old company and as such where a pre pack is different from an name change/takeover. You would own the copyright etc but as i said any new titles would not be adding to your number. You would then eventually be overtaken by celtic as you are stuck at 54.

Pre pack doesn't really suit football clubs as fans care about things like the history etc. Best thing rangers can do is start afresh like AFC wimbledon that way you can get proper fan ownership. Tell the guys in suits to **** off as there only interested in your money.

 

[Mitre_Mouldmaster]

Afraid not as legally it would now be classed as two seperate entities. Thats is why no one can claim monies due from the old company and as such where a pre pack is different from an name change/takeover. You would own the copyright etc but as i said any new titles would not be adding to your number. You would then eventually be overtaken by celtic as you are stuck at 54.

Pre pack doesn't really suit football clubs as fans care about things like the history etc. Best thing rangers can do is start afresh like AFC wimbledon that way you can get proper fan ownership. Tell the guys in suits to **** off as there only interested in your money.

As the history exists in the goodwill, and the goodwill is continuous, along with the brand, then of course you can claim to continue the history.

Why else do Uefa recognise this with Fiorentina, Leeds, Etc.

If you are saying that worst case scenario, that Uefa the european governing body recognise that we keep our history and also can add to it, then I would say that was a result!

 

[eric cartman]

As the history exists in the goodwill, and the goodwill is continuous, along with the brand, then of course you can claim to continue the history.

Why else do Uefa recognise this with Fiorentina, Leeds, Etc.

If you are saying that worst case scenario, that Uefa the european governing body recognise that we keep our history and also can add to it, then I would say that was a result!

what!!!

Im clearly saying the opposite to that you CANT add to it. Its a legal fact it isn't open for debate you want to change it, then petition parliment for a change in the law.

 

[Mitre_Mouldmaster]

what!!!

Im clearly saying the opposite to that you CANT add to it. Its a legal fact it isn't open for debate you want to change it, then petition parliment for a change in the law.

Are you sure thats how it works legally though?

If thats true, im sure you can point me to the law that states this.

I think you might just be making it up.

Oh, and how do Uefa get round ths rule when attributing the history of the old club to the new club? Surely they must be breaking the law?

 

[eric cartman]

Are you sure thats how it works legally though?

If thats true, im sure you can point me to the law that states this.

I think you might just be making it up.

Oh, and how do Uefa get round ths rule when attributing the history of the old club to the new club? Surely they must be breaking the law?

Pretty sure, as i have a degree in it. http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1986/45/contents. When a company is liquidated thats it you cant claim any monies from the phoenix company. Many have tried but failed, as such the company that won 54 titles is insolvent and can no longer add to it. The new pheonix company cant add to it as it legally has no tie's to it.

Anyway i thought you had done your research and you knew what you were talking about. I told you stop using message boards for your research as you are just perpertrating misheld myths.

 

[Mitre_Mouldmaster]

Pretty sure, as i have a degree in it. http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1986/45/contents. When a company is liquidated thats it you cant claim any monies from the phoenix company. Many have tried but failed, as such the company that won 54 titles is insolvent and can no longer add to it. The new pheonix company cant add to it as it legally has no tie's to it.

Im not saying you can claim money against it! That would be daft!

Im talking about continuing the history, which is transfered with the goodwill of a company.

Nice try pretending you have a law degree by the way

 

[DevAdvocate]

Mitre, if "Liquidation" can save Rangers FC and it's history then why has no one else suggested such a course of action?

 

[Mitre_Mouldmaster]

Mitre, if "Liquidation" can save Rangers FC and it's history then why has no one else suggested such a course of action?

They have!

""By putting all of the assets into a different corporate structure, the assets are rescued from liquidation. Such a transaction would be very similar to the one that occurred at Leeds United in 2007, which simultaneously rescued that club, maintained its proud history and allowed the club to shed its debt burdens so that it could have the opportunity for future success"."

Club 9

 

[eric cartman]

Im not saying you can claim money against it! That would be daft!

Im talking about continuing the history, which is transfered with the goodwill of a company.

Nice try pretending you have a law degree by the way

Erm the only one pretending on this board is you, in that you know what your talking about. Yet you ask me basic questions that anyone who claims to know about transferring the history of a company should know.