Al Fayed

[TonyG]

Can I just ask you this

have you ever had to text a parent to say what you are wearing on a night out?
text a friend/parent /partner you are in a taxi coming home?
go in groups to the toliet or to someone to wait for a taxi home?
carry keys in your hand as weapon?
have 999 ready to go on your phone?
text the group of friends that you made it home safely after a night out?

this is what I have to do,
as woman, this is our struggle,
Something happens its always us that gets scrutinised,
what were you wearing
did you lead him on. etc
shes lyingm she wanted it to happen

its never taken seriously or serious enough
most cases dont make it to court.
some of these women did go to the authourites but "not enough" evidence - the evidence that was destroyed by his team,

So true. My missus is a strong person and personality but she has to cut her walks from work at this time of year as its much scarier being beeped at in the dark than in daylight.

from a male point of view I tend to cross the road when walking behind women cos I don't want them feeling nervous when I'm walking behind them and something has to be wrong to feel like that, I won't be the only one either.

 

[Montysoptician]

Can I just ask you this

have you ever had to text a parent to say what you are wearing on a night out?
text a friend/parent /partner you are in a taxi coming home?
go in groups to the toliet or to someone to wait for a taxi home?
carry keys in your hand as weapon?
have 999 ready to go on your phone?
text the group of friends that you made it home safely after a night out?

this is what I have to do,
as woman, this is our struggle,
Something happens its always us that gets scrutinised,
what were you wearing
did you lead him on. etc
shes lyingm she wanted it to happen

its never taken seriously or serious enough
most cases dont make it to court.
some of these women did go to the authourites but "not enough" evidence - the evidence that was destroyed by his team,

As a father of two grown up daughters Bucky, I can fully relate to the points you raise in your post.
My two daughters' party days were in a much less volatile era but I was still employed as Dad's Taxi's, despite 0630 starts at work the following morning. We laugh about it now but I wouldn't have it any other way.

 

[Brainy Dose]

As a father of two grown up daughters Bucky, I can fully relate to the points you raise in your post.
My two daughters' party days were in a much less volatile era but I was still employed as Dad's Taxi's, despite 0630 starts at work the following morning. We laugh about it now but I wouldn't have it any other way.

Yep,I've been there.....two daughters....= many times! " Dad,I'm going to a disco at the Rugby Club tomorrow night......Sophie's Mum says she can take if you can bring back?"
Mr Naive....yours truly...."Ok,what time does it finish?"
"I think it's midnight....but it'll take us a while to get our coats and that....can you come for us about 12.30?"
One month later......" Dad,it's the disco at the Rugby Club tomorrow night.....Sophie's Mum says she can take if you can bring back?"
"Erm...isn't it Sophie's Mum's turn to pick up and bring back?"
"Well,it would be,but Sophie's Mum has been invited for dinner with some friends,so she can't do it this time."
FFS! Done again! Another turnout early on a Sunday morning!
At least I knew the girls got home safely!

 

[Montysoptician]

Yep,I've been there.....two daughters....= many times! " Dad,I'm going to a disco at the Rugby Club tomorrow night......Sophie's Mum says she can take if you can bring back?"
Mr Naive....yours truly...."Ok,what time does it finish?"
"I think it's midnight....but it'll take us a while to get our coats and that....can you come for us about 12.30?"
One month later......" Dad,it's the disco at the Rugby Club tomorrow night.....Sophie's Mum says she can take if you can bring back?"
"Erm...isn't it Sophie's Mum's turn to pick up and bring back?"
"Well,it would be,but Sophie's Mum has been invited for dinner with some friends,so she can't do it this time."
FFS! Done again! Another turnout early on a Sunday morning!
At least I knew the girls got home safely!

Been there, done it and got the T-Shirt

 

[E.T. Fairfax]

So true. My missus is a strong person and personality but she has to cut her walks from work at this time of year as its much scarier being beeped at in the dark than in daylight.

from a male point of view I tend to cross the road when walking behind women cos I don't want them feeling nervous when I'm walking behind them and something has to be wrong to feel like that, I won't be the only one either.

As a 6ft 3, 17st bloke I myself feel nervous when a figure is following/walking behind me. For women it must be terrifying.

 

[Bucky1989]

I can bet all of you can ask any female memeber of family or friends or work colleagues,
they will either all have stories that have happened to them or someoe them they know

 

[123Daveyboy]

The Met police are now saying another 50 Women have come forward with allegations against Al Fayed, this now i believe takes the total to over 100.
Surely if this number of women had done so when he was still alive something would have been done, if he had been faced with police interrogation that may have been enough to stop him doing these things.
So as i asked originally why wait until he has died.what good will i do now.
I just cant understand.

 

[Evil Jimmy Krankie]

The Met police are now saying another 50 Women have come forward with allegations against Al Fayed, this now i believe takes the total to over 100.
Surely if this number of women had done so when he was still alive something would have been done, if he had been faced with police interrogation that may have been enough to stop him doing these things.
So as i asked originally why wait until he has died.what good will i do now.
I just cant understand.

Because you’re thinking about it from a male perspective. As Bucky says, it’s completely different as a female.

 

[The Norton Cat]

Because you’re thinking about it from a male perspective. As Bucky says, it’s completely different as a female.

And no one is any longer gaining anything from helping him hush it up.

 

[Scout73]

The Met police are now saying another 50 Women have come forward with allegations against Al Fayed, this now i believe takes the total to over 100.
Surely if this number of women had done so when he was still alive something would have been done, if he had been faced with police interrogation that may have been enough to stop him doing these things.
So as i asked originally why wait until he has died.what good will i do now.
I just cant understand.

I'm sure I read that loads did come forward when he was alive but it was just swept under the carpet. He was a powerful man so not surprised a lot got swept under the carpet, that would have put other victims off coning forward

Some victims find it hard to come forward due to the stigma of it, not the victims fault for coming forward now - I'm pleased they feel safe n empowered to come forward now

 

[Disco down under]

The Met police are now saying another 50 Women have come forward with allegations against Al Fayed, this now i believe takes the total to over 100.
Surely if this number of women had done so when he was still alive something would have been done, if he had been faced with police interrogation that may have been enough to stop him doing these things.
So as i asked originally why wait until he has died.what good will i do now.
I just cant understand.

They're coming out now because people are listening.

They might have been coming out all along but it's the whole tree falling in the woods situation, no one listening, it doesn't make a sound.

 

[Evil Jimmy Krankie]

I can bet all of you can ask any female memeber of family or friends or work colleagues,
they will either all have stories that have happened to them or someoe them they know

Ive just put that to the test with Mrs K. Turns out you’re right. She used to be airline cabin crew. She said it was rife with both passengers and with other crew members.

 

[Scout73]

Ive just put that to the test with Mrs K. Turns out you’re right. She used to be airline cabin crew. She said it was rife with both passengers and with other crew members.

My missus said similar, she started working for a big bank yrs ago n one of the senior managers kept feeling her bum on a night out n she had no idea what to do as he was really senior so just stayed quiet as felt nothing would get done n it would tarnish her more than it would him

 

[Bucky1989]

Ive just put that to the test with Mrs K. Turns out you’re right. She used to be airline cabin crew. She said it was rife with both passengers and with other crew members.

its incredible sad and upsetting,

when I went to uni, all the girls starting that year had to attend a senimar about staying safe in the city,
the boys? had the day off.

I reported someting once at the uni I went - "we've spoken to the person in question, they described things and we beleive it was a missunderstanding"

they followed me and friend to a bathroom and waited outsided till we came out, calling us quite awful things

missunderstanding

 

[123Daveyboy]

Because you’re thinking about it from a male perspective. As Bucky says, it’s completely different as a female.

No matter what perspective, I am saying if over 100 women went to the police and reported sexual abuse. It is then the police duty to investigate.

 

[C Montgomery Burns]

its incredible sad and upsetting,

when I went to uni, all the girls starting that year had to attend a senimar about staying safe in the city,
the boys? had the day off.

I reported someting once at the uni I went - "we've spoken to the person in question, they described things and we beleive it was a missunderstanding"

they followed me and friend to a bathroom and waited outsided till we came out, calling us quite awful things

missunderstanding

I've heard loads of similar stuff from ex girlfriends and female friends of mine. Lots of stuff is brushed off as a "misunderstanding" or "banter" or "harmless fun". A lass I used to work with was an ex copper and she said the amount of times she'd get groped on duty by members of the public was ridiculous and that didn't count harassment from male coppers. But complaining did nothing, male PCs would band round together for each other and the attitude was just "deal with it" when it came from the public.

 

[Evil Jimmy Krankie]

No matter what perspective, I am saying if over 100 women went to the police and reported sexual abuse. It is then the police duty to investigate.

It is the duty of the police to investigate, but I still don’t think you’re getting this. It’s not as black and white as you think it is.
Lots of women will make the initial complaint then decide not to go through with it. They don’t want the added stress of the investigation. They don’t want to take part in what would be an invasive medical examination to gather evidence. They don’t want to relive the terror by explaining to a cop exactly what happened to them. They don’t want to be cross examined in court and be made to look like a liar or a ‘hysterical and emotionally weak female’. And lastly they’ve been forced by a man to have sex with them against their will and felt powerless to stop it and then the cops come along and make them go through it all again. I’m sure you’ve heard the term controlling and coercive behaviour. For many it’s all just too much.
I think that the investigation process is always victim led in these cases, so it’s up to the victim to decide how it proceeds or not.
There’s just some of the reasons why maybe they aren’t investigated. Not forgetting of course that the rule of law has to apply no matter what the offence and the burden of proof is nearly always on the prosecution to prove it happened not the suspect to prove it didn’t.
These types of offences have always been notoriously difficult to successfully prosecute and until there is a significant change in the laws then they always will be in my opinion. Add into the mix that these are historic allegations for the most part and the police may not have been as fastidious or as understanding back then when it came to investigating them. Thankfully that has changed for the better and I’d like to think the investigation would be a bit more robust today.

 

[Disco down under]

No matter what perspective, I am saying if over 100 women went to the police and reported sexual abuse. It is then the police duty to investigate.

So it's the women's fault?

 

[Bucky1989]

No matter what perspective, I am saying if over 100 women went to the police and reported sexual abuse. It is then the police duty to investigate.

But they did, the had proof & recordings but it was destroyed by his legal team.

Most dont want to report anything due to the embarrassment or the feeling of being ashamed to do so.

or the stress or reliving whats has happened to us takes an emotional strain on us.

 

[C Montgomery Burns]

No matter what perspective, I am saying if over 100 women went to the police and reported sexual abuse. It is then the police duty to investigate.

And if they have and it's been dismissed? It happens a lot, especially if there's not a lot of evidence and it turns into a "he said - she said" situation.

Consider he owned Harrods for over 25 years, it works out at a handful a years, countable on one hand if you average it out. Infrequent enough that files and complaints "get lost", smart lawyers make it look like spiteful accusations, potential complaints get intimidated into not coming forward so the few who are prepared to don't have people backing them up. Over 100 women making complaints in a short period of time should get police interest, but a handful spread out over a long time? All you have to do is look at Jimmy Saville, Rolf Harris and Cyril Smith to see what happens. All of them had multiple accusations going back years which weren't taken seriously or were dismissed. Saville had to be dead for two years before it came out. ****ing hell, the City of Leeds practically had a state funeral for him with his body lying in Leeds Cathedral before being buried and thousands lining the streets in mourning. Al Fayed was richer and arguably more powerful than any of those three, despite Saville's connections and Smith being a senior Liberal politician.