Off Topic Afghanistan

[bcfcredandwhite]

I’m not a military person - I tried to join the RAF when I left school but was rejected.
Neither am I a warmonger. I was against the Iraq was and the invasion of Afghanistan.
However, I almost cry when I see what’s happening over there now. We have left those people to their doom and I think it also renders the sacrifices of our troops pointless.
So tragic.
Whatever your opinions are about our involvement in the first place, we can’t just pull out like cancelling a Direct Debit. There are real people there.

 

[Jiffie]

I’m not a military person - I tried to join the RAF when I left school but was rejected.
Neither am I a warmonger. I was against the Iraq was and the invasion of Afghanistan.
However, I almost cry when I see what’s happening over there now. We have left those people to their doom and I think it also renders the sacrifices of our troops pointless.
So tragic.
Whatever your opinions are about our involvement in the first place, we can’t just pull out like cancelling a Direct Debit. There are real people there.

Yep Trump was a twat, so what is dozy Joe then over this particular debacle?

Anybody who thinks that world terrorism will not increase over this decision is in a dream world. Will it take another 9/11 (probably something Biden can't remember anymore) for the penny to finally drop?

 

[oneforthebristolcity]

I’m not a military person - I tried to join the RAF when I left school but was rejected.
Neither am I a warmonger. I was against the Iraq was and the invasion of Afghanistan.
However, I almost cry when I see what’s happening over there now. We have left those people to their doom and I think it also renders the sacrifices of our troops pointless.
So tragic.
Whatever your opinions are about our involvement in the first place, we can’t just pull out like cancelling a Direct Debit. There are real people there.

I'm not sure that part of the world is fixable TBH, so many years of conflict and sacrifices of troops against it ....
Not sure what the answer is. It's always the innocent that suffer, showing no respect towards human rights by the taliban.... I knew people involved, one not even part of the forces (which is not talked about, who struggled to get back home) told me it was inevitable it would all start back up once the Americans, Brits and other foreign forces pulled out..
Watching some of the images, makes me thankful, I wasn't born within such dreadful circumstances....

 

[realred1952]

It is extremely SAD ..................….hundreds of families are suffering today through loved ones lost or now crippled physically or mentally and for what...… a terrorist group to take over a democratic country within days of the soldiers that brought [ aided ] stability leaving. The biggest victims of Afghanistan will be the children … girls mostly … raped and married off to Taliban or foreign fighters. Girls education will be stopped, young boys taken from families and forced into the terrorist ranks … ex police / military horribly and extensively tortured before a slow death is allowed to overcome them. families thrown onto the streets as there houses taken over …. and a destruction of their economy, slowly coming to fruition with a resurgence of poppy fields to fuel the drug markets taking its place.
The place is now open for the ruskies to invade! … ? ISIS to strengthen and get a caliphate [ they may have almost been wiped out of Iraq and Syria but still have £bn's stashed away ]

the UK and USA have spent multiple £'s in trillions. maybe as much as £1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 ...for what!

 

[AshtonRed]

It was never going to end well. Unless there is a permanent foreign force in place maybe UN, as soon as troops were removed it was obvious this would happen. Dreadful

 

[bcfcredandwhite]

It is extremely SAD ..................….hundreds of families are suffering today through loved ones lost or now crippled physically or mentally and for what...… a terrorist group to take over a democratic country within days of the soldiers that brought [ aided ] stability leaving. The biggest victims of Afghanistan will be the children … girls mostly … raped and married off to Taliban or foreign fighters. Girls education will be stopped, young boys taken from families and forced into the terrorist ranks … ex police / military horribly and extensively tortured before a slow death is allowed to overcome them. families thrown onto the streets as there houses taken over …. and a destruction of their economy, slowly coming to fruition with a resurgence of poppy fields to fuel the drug markets taking its place.
The place is now open for the ruskies to invade! … ? ISIS to strengthen and get a caliphate [ they may have almost been wiped out of Iraq and Syria but still have £bn's stashed away ]

the UK and USA have spent multiple £'s in trillions. maybe as much as £1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 ...for what!

If they did, they would do the region and us a favour imho - better than the Taliban anyway.

 

[AshtonRed]

It is extremely SAD ..................….hundreds of families are suffering today through loved ones lost or now crippled physically or mentally and for what...… a terrorist group to take over a democratic country within days of the soldiers that brought [ aided ] stability leaving. The biggest victims of Afghanistan will be the children … girls mostly … raped and married off to Taliban or foreign fighters. Girls education will be stopped, young boys taken from families and forced into the terrorist ranks … ex police / military horribly and extensively tortured before a slow death is allowed to overcome them. families thrown onto the streets as there houses taken over …. and a destruction of their economy, slowly coming to fruition with a resurgence of poppy fields to fuel the drug markets taking its place.
The place is now open for the ruskies to invade! … ? ISIS to strengthen and get a caliphate [ they may have almost been wiped out of Iraq and Syria but still have £bn's stashed away ]

the UK and USA have spent multiple £'s in trillions. maybe as much as £1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 ...for what!

Didn’t the Russians try and fail before? Went on for years if I remember correctly.

 

[bcfcredandwhite]

Didn’t the Russians try and fail before? Went on for years if I remember correctly.

Yeah - and we were on the same side as the Taliban in that one (shows how fickle the major powers are when it comes to world conflicts)

Haven't you seen Rambo? He joined with the Taliban and kicked the Russians' arses.....

 

[smhbcfc]

Once we went in there we had to stay and see the job through- there are no quick decisive answers here

We should hang our heads in shame for how we have left the Afghan people hanging out to dry

Was delighted when Biden beat Trump ............. now wondering

 

[AshtonRed]

Once we went in there we had to stay and see the job through- there are no quick decisive answers here

We should hang our heads in shame for how we have left the Afghan people hanging out to dry

Was delighted when Biden beat Trump ............. now wondering

Agree completely, except the Trump comment, Biden is much better. Think he got it very wrong on this point though, both for humanitarian reasons, but also from a selfish point of view. the Taliban can now regroup and will then cause havoc around the world again. Then back to square one.

 

[Supcon72]

As someone who has served in Afghanistan, this was always an obvious outcome. The Afghan Army are as impotent as they come, despite years of training from Coalition troops. They are corrupt as hell and would rather sell the assets given them - often to the Taliban…. Afghanistan is like Vietnam, in that it is not a uniformed enemy in front of you, it’s men, women and children laying land mines, shooting at you and detonating remote controlled improvised explosive devices (IED). One minute they are tending the field, then hosing you with an AK47. I for one couldn’t give a $hiny $hite what happens to the people of that country. They don’t want Western democracy, so leave them to their Islamic ways!

 

[AshtonRed]

As someone who has served in Afghanistan, this was always an obvious outcome. The Afghan Army are as impotent as they come, despite years of training from Coalition troops. They are corrupt as hell and would rather sell the assets given them - often to the Taliban…. Afghanistan is like Vietnam, in that it is not a uniformed enemy in front of you, it’s men, women and children laying land mines, shooting at you and detonating remote controlled improvised explosive devices (IED). One minute they are tending the field, then hosing you with an AK47. I for one couldn’t give a $hiny $hite what happens to the people of that country. They don’t want Western democracy, so leave them to their Islamic ways!

What about my point that left to their own devices it will allow the Talban the chance to reform and create a base to create havoc worldwide?

 

[Supcon72]

I don’t think that is likely to happen tbh. I think they know OBL over-stepped the mark. They will be happy running their $hithole of a country free from Western forces. That was the trade-off when we left.

 

[AshtonRed]

I don’t think that is likely to happen tbh. I think they know OBL over-stepped the mark. They will be happy running their $hithole of a country free from Western forces. That was the trade-off when we left.

You obviously know more about it than me, I hope you’re right, still not nice for ordinary Afghans though, there must be some decent ones.

 

[Jiffie]

Agree completely, except the Trump comment, Biden is much better. Think he got it very wrong on this point though, both for humanitarian reasons, but also from a selfish point of view. the Taliban can now regroup and will then cause havoc around the world again. Then back to square one.

It has been pointed out only today had Trump been responsible for the inevitable fall of Kabul the UK media would be all over it + there he is on record claiming the Kabul would never fall because of well trained Afghan army, this has taken a couple of weeks, his hands are covered in the blood of all of the people being executed and women and girls being used as sex slaves, shame on the doddery old twat.

 

[bcfcredandwhite]

I don’t think that is likely to happen tbh. I think they know OBL over-stepped the mark. They will be happy running their $hithole of a country free from Western forces. That was the trade-off when we left.

I respect your opinions and you’ve experienced it first hand, so hats off to you.
I feel that this is bigger than just Afghanistan though. By pulling out in the way we are doing, we are sending a message to those people who actually helped us that we can’t be trusted.
Potential allies in future conflicts will look at this abandonment and will be less likely to support us, in case we just pack up and go home.

 

[AshtonRed]

I respect your opinions and you’ve experienced it first hand, so hats off to you.
I feel that this is bigger than just Afghanistan though. By pulling out in the way we are doing, we are sending a message to those people who actually helped us that we can’t be trusted.
Potential allies in future conflicts will look at this abandonment and will be less likely to support us, in case we just pack up and go home.

Such as ? Genuine question. I’m on the fence , it feels like the west is abandoning them, but equally how long do we stay? , 20 years since it started, also wasn’t it obvious from the beginning this would happen eventually, only a matter of time, therefore should we have gone in there at all?

 

[Jiffie]

Such as ? Genuine question. I’m on the fence , it feels like the west is abandoning them, but equally how long do we stay? , 20 years since it started, also wasn’t it obvious from the beginning this would happen eventually, only a matter of time, therefore should we have gone in there at all?

As usual it was the good old U S of A seeking revenge ala Iraq and we followed, the outcome was predictable but what is happening now is shameful.

 

[AshtonRed]

As usual it was the good old U S of A seeking revenge ala Iraq and we followed, the outcome was predictable but what is happening now is shameful.

I know why they went in, revenge etc, it was also to prevent further attacks, my point was as soon as they(we) pulled out things were always going to go back to ‘as before’,

By encouraging them to have western values, females having access to education etc, and not sticking to strict Islamic rules it was obvious they’d be punished once we pulled out and the Talban regained control. We essentially set them up for a fall.

It seems to me the problem is more that they went in in the first place. You blame Biden but he didn’t chose to go in all those years ago, staying longer would just kick the problem further down the road . They have to leave eventually.

 

[Jiffie]

I know why they went in, revenge etc, it was also to prevent further attacks, my point was as soon as they(we) pulled out things were always going to go back to ‘as before’,

By encouraging them to have western values, females having access to education etc, and not sticking to strict Islamic rules it was obvious they’d be punished once we pulled out and the Talban regained control. We essentially set them up for a fall.

It seems to me the problem is more that they went in in the first place. You blame Biden but he didn’t chose to go in all those years ago, staying longer would just kick the problem further down the road . They have to leave eventually.

All of this true and I agree, but thousands will be executed on the whim of sub humans, some of them who actually worked for the alliance, thousands of women and young girls are being rounded up and used for their own pleasure, but never mind eh?

I blame Biden for such a dramatic withdrawal and bullshitting the media about Afghanistan's capacity to defend itself, when everybody and I mean everybody could have predicted what has happened and the speed with which it has happened.