Off Topic Advice needed

[OddDog]

Thanks to Covid-19 I have reached one of life's crossroads where I have a big decision to make and I am looking for some thoughts and advice on which way to go.

The crux of the matter is this: My company (aerospace industry) is offering Voluntary Redundancy and I am weighing up whether to take it or not. I would walk away with a lump sum equating to just over 2 years salary.

I have been unhappy at work for the last couple of years (feeling under-utilised and under-appreciated) and have yearned for change. I turn 52 this December so I still feel I have plenty to offer a prospective employer with my experience and another 12-15 years of working (I'm not one of those people who wants to retire early - I like going to work and working with people, it just hasn't been the right challenge these last couple of years). For a long time now I have just been going through the motions and taking the money - only the great people who work for me have kept me sane. But now feels like the right time to actively seek change (and take a nice sum of money which will keep me going for 2-3 years in the very worst case). I think the aerospace industry is going to struggle massively for the next 5-7 years and there are already signs that my company is centralising more and more roles in its UK centre - so my job may be gone anyway in 12 months.

Just wondering if anyone has done a similar thing, or has any views or advice which might help me make my decision. Thanks in advance for any thoughts.

 

[NassauBoard]

The Good - My wife was made redundant from a job she had similar feelings about and with the payout and then good fortune of finding a job she prefers and has better work life balance, it has worked out staggeringly well. The months between redundancy and getting a "temp" role were very difficult even with a decent payoff.

The Bad - Economy and the crisis. Who knows where the economy and jobs markets will be in the next few years, finding roles might be more difficult and stressful.


Personally, I think that if I was in that position I would probably opt for the voluntary redundancy but only if I had financial security (mortgage/bills payable by one wage etc) and make the most out of it. It really does come down to the risk/reward aspect of it all. With two years wages reward and the outlook for the sector, I think it would probably outweigh the risks for me.


Good luck either way!

 

[OddDog]

Cheers Nass. One other thing I should mention is that I have a private health insurance which can be crippingly expensive when you are a pensioner. Registering unemployed will allow me to get back in to the "state" health insurance. So all sorts of rewards which for me are outweighing the risks by a long mark. Always good to hear other views though

 

[NassauBoard]

Cheers Nass. One other thing I should mention is that I have a private health insurance which can be crippingly expensive when you are a pensioner. Registering unemployed will allow me to get back in to the "state" health insurance. So all sorts of rewards which for me are outweighing the risks by a long mark. Always good to hear other views though

Sounds like you’ve almost made your decision too!

 

[Ron]

It's a difficult one Oddy. Impossible for the likes of us to advise of course, as we don't know the big picture, but very happy to offer some thoughts.

In order to assess, you need to consider

• the implications for your pension
• how much you would receive as unemployed and for how long
• the likelihood of either finding alternative employment in the current climate or becoming self employed
• implications of not taking VR at this stage (especially retirement pension - not to be under estimated)
• your financial commitments

2 years salary may sound a lot and would be very useful if starting up your own business. But in the worst scenario, it won't last long.

Personally I would consider the worst scenario and build up from there. Work through each scenario, including how you might fare in retirement. It's so easy to overlook retirement for a nice sum now but it is a point we all reach (hopefully) so a lot depends what one can do with that redundancy pay

Much as you aren't enjoying your work, you could potentially be better off sticking it out for another 3 years after which you may get an even better redundancy package, including a non reduced pension. During those 3 years try to find something else to keep you sane

They are offering voluntary redundancy to encourage as many employees as possible to go without having to make them redundant. Presumably they want to keep some, so if plenty take it up and you don't, you could end up with a more interesting job

The only advice I can offer Oddy,is to make sure you are aware of all the options should you not take up the offer and do your sums before jumping to any conclusions

 

[OddDog]

Sound advice Ron and the point about the pension is a good one. My company pension (as I believe is the case with many German companies) is crap - €350 per month and I have already done enough service with the company to guarantee that. So that is mine, come what may. My main pension pot is the state pension - which I need to keep feeding, so fully intend to get another job ASAP - plus some private investments. I rent rather than own, so no mortgage to service. I have been browsing for new jobs and have applied for 4 in Berlin (including at the new Tesla Gigafactory opening next year) so there are jobs out there.

 

[Pilgrim]

Complicated decision. I may not be the best person to advise you but I'm older than you and I may be able to contribute something.

I see that there are two levels, the work and the economic.

In the first one I am even worse off than you since my co-workers don't help me at all and the only thing they do is avoid their work and their responsibilities. So if I could retire I would do it tomorrow without hesitation.

Then there's the financial side, and it's very important. You have to do a lot of numbers to see if what they offer you is worth it so that you don't lower your standard of living too much and your family is affected.

So, my advice is, if you can really afford it, take Voluntary Redundancy. Time flies by and those of us over 50 know that very well.

And finally there is a variable that is as important as the first two and that is health. I'm sure you don't have any problems but it's another thing to consider very seriously. You have to enjoy life while you can and I can tell you from my own experience that this can change dramatically in a couple of days.

 

[smokethedeadbadger]

I'd say you just have to figure out whether you can afford it, if at your age you struggle to get another job. Well another job that you want to do anyway. It's ok just getting any old job and working just for the money but if your colleagues or the job itself is ****e then is it worth it. Around 12 years ago my dad was made redundant, I think he was around 57 at the time. He just couldn't find another job. No one wanted someone his age. Wanted the younger applicants instead and he never ended up working again.

 

[redcgull]

I wish you luck on whatever you choose to do Oddy as it seems the world of business and loyalty don't go hand in hand very much nowadays. Saying that the world is a very different place to when you or I first ventured out in to the wide world of working for a living, some companies love to have you, some simply to make the numbers up.

I'm sure you will make the right choice come the time...

 

[OddDog]

Thanks guys - especially the health slant from Pilgrim, that is so important. I haven't mentioned it on the Forum but I have been off sick since the beginning of June (smashed up my arm in a bike accident) and just being away from work has left me feeling mentally so much better. I do look in on the mails from time to time and when I read them, it is almost a kind of surreal world where everyone talks about bollocks KPIs whilst patently failing to understand the challenges our industry is facing. Not sure whether to laugh or cry when I read them .................

 

[rainermariarilke]

I'm too long (25 years) out of the workplace to say anything useful about employment/remuneration prospects, but maybe one of the first things to consider is location. If you and yours intend to stay in Germany, that's one thing: if you're looking to come back to the UK now or in the foreseeable future, that's another thing. My whole instinct shouts 'stay' - you're in a socio-economic frame that you're familiar with and - if I can say this non-provocatively - inside a nation state that appears to be better-run and on better terms with itself than most. Imo, the Brexit thing would be a red herring in your situation and I'd ignore it.

I hope it all ends happily, and (I think) I know you too well to imagine that you would do anything stupidly impulsive. And Ron's right - do look long and hard at the pension situation and prospects. Once you stop working, it's your only lifeline and you need to keep it in good repair. Viel Gluck !

 

[OddDog]

I'm too long (25 years) out of the workplace to say anything useful about employment/remuneration prospects, but maybe one of the first things to consider is location. If you and yours intend to stay in Germany, that's one thing: if you're looking to come back to the UK now or in the foreseeable future, that's another thing. My whole instinct shouts 'stay' - you're in a socio-economic frame that you're familiar with and - if I can say this non-provocatively - inside a nation state that appears to be better-run and on better terms with itself than most. Imo, the Brexit thing would be a red herring in your situation and I'd ignore it.

I hope it all ends happily, and (I think) I know you too well to imagine that you would do anything stupidly impulsive. And Ron's right - do look long and hard at the pension situation and prospects. Once you stop working, it's your only lifeline and you need to keep it in good repair. Viel Gluck !

I know what you mean about the pension and my intention is to find another job pretty quickly but I do need to get unemployed for a short while to get back into the state health insurance - I've heard many horror stories of how financially crippling private health insurance can be once you retire. I've got until 11th September (what a day to choose) to apply for VR so until then I will keep my powder dry. Talking to a recruitment agency this afternoon, let's see what they have to say.

 

[SwanHills]

Well, Oddy, seems on one or two points (e.g. health insurance) I too have been there before. Any other questions I might have had have been fully and comprehensively dealt with by Nassau and Ron. The aerospace industry is indeed in real trouble at the moment, and the oil and gas industry too (in which I spent just about all my working life, home and abroad) will never be the same again either, but I guess very few will be sorry about that! Redundancy payment, based on 2-years salary is tempting, but it may well soon go even if you are very careful?

Without babbling on, the last paragraph in post #5 of Ron's excellent assessment sums it all up, IMHO. Sorry that I have been no help at all, but on health insurance I would be happy to go into a few details of my 'state' insurance if it is of any help, just send me a PM. However, you seem to have that covered. I know one thing, so-called 'Private' health insurance is the veritable 's***s', especially as one gets older. So happy and relieved I was able to get rid of it well in time.

 

[SwanHills]

..................And finally there is a variable that is as important as the first two and that is health. I'm sure you don't have any problems but it's another thing to consider very seriously. You have to enjoy life while you can and I can tell you from my own experience that this can change dramatically in a couple of days.

You have never spoken truer words, Pilgrim. I was just rolling along in happy retirement (which I must have thought would go on for ever), in pretty good health all-in-all, and then about a year-and-a-half ago my troubles began. No grumbles at all though, had a long life with my full share of happy times, a little bit of adventure occasionally too, so I count my blessings, often.

 

[redcgull]

Thanks guys - especially the health slant from Pilgrim, that is so important. I haven't mentioned it on the Forum but I have been off sick since the beginning of June (smashed up my arm in a bike accident) and just being away from work has left me feeling mentally so much better. I do look in on the mails from time to time and when I read them, it is almost a kind of surreal world where everyone talks about bollocks KPIs whilst patently failing to understand the challenges our industry is facing. Not sure whether to laugh or cry when I read them .................

Glad to hear that you are in a good place mentally Oddy as I struggled for a while after coming off my bike 4 years ago now. Get a few bad days now and again but we all do, it sounds like your back up and running true OddDog style now...

 

[stick]

We all see things differently dont we but the key point for me in all of this is that you do not like your current job. Work doesnt have to be a chore if we can find the right employment for the right people. For too many years I workde in jobs that I hated with people I really didnt like and all because I was a) scared to get out and do something radically different and b) too stuck in my ways because it was so easy for me. The last three years of my working life were my most enjoyable. I did a job that was challenging and yet rewarding and for people that I liked and respected and showed me how much they appreciated what I did for them. In that time I would say my health improved dramatically.
You have the chance to change and are even being given a cash boost to help you on your way. Take it with both hands and dont look back. I bet you in years to come you will say it was the best decision you ever made.
Always remember, it isnt a rehearsal and there are no pockets in shrouds!

 

[OddDog]

Site has been down a few hours today so just catching up. Thank you all for the comments. I had a first telephone interview today with a recruitment agency looking to hire a Supply Chain Manager for a company that has just won a massive order for trams for Berlin. Seemed really interested and impressed with my CV and I will go through to a formal interview in the next few weeks.

 

[Ron]

Site has been down a few hours today so just catching up. Thank you all for the comments. I had a first telephone interview today with a recruitment agency looking to hire a Supply Chain Manager for a company that has just won a massive order for trams for Berlin. Seemed really interested and impressed with my CV and I will go through to a formal interview in the next few weeks.

Great Oddy and good luck. From what you have said above it looks like the pension consideration is considerably less important than I could have imagined (that is either a typo or a really **** pension). You have a month to make your decision. That's great. If you get a job offer within that time it's a no brainer. Take the money and go. It is much better to look for alternative employment whilst you are employed so I would make the most of that month. Love your positive attitude.

 

[rudebwoy]

For what it’s worth , ive always left / got sacked from jobs a didn’t like , no job is worth your health , mental or physical , so if as you say , you’ve reached the tipping point in this venture , they’re offering two years pay , no brainer.Life is one innings , close one door , many more are there to be opened, just imagine if you’d stayed in your first job all your life , for fear of the unknown / unpredictable?
get your pension sorted for future benefits , unemployment is a also a time to take stock , without the hamster wheel of work , you could even take up self work with some business that you can create .
Whatever you do , health is wealth !!! G luck

 

[OddDog]

Got my application in today and spoke to my boss, he understands and won't stand in my way. All about the numbers now