aaron lennon

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Josh-LUFC said:
Simon, I gotta disagree with something there. We do not have the best defence in the competition. We aren't even playing England's best defence. We have Johnson who is average, Terry who is past it, Lescott who is reckless and Cole who is starting to show age. You could easily say names in other teams in the Euros who have far better. Hart is probably our best player at the moment and there are still better keepers in the competition
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There's 1 better 'keeper in the competition, Casillas. We're not playing our best defence, and it's still better than any defence I've seen in the competition. Seriously look at them, Holland: So bad they're nearly out, Germany: Playing a centre back at right back and a right back at left back, France: Average with a capital A, Spain: Skilful on the ball but no fight, Italy: Nothing compared to defences of old. This is largely a competition of good attacks, attacks that are better than ours which is why we would lose if we tried to play a free flowing attacking game.
 
Simon21-LUFC said:
There's 1 better 'keeper in the competition, Casillas. We're not playing our best defence, and it's still better than any defence I've seen in the competition. Seriously look at them, Holland: So bad they're nearly out, Germany: Playing a centre back at right back and a right back at left back, France: Average with a capital A, Spain: Skilful on the ball but no fight, Italy: Nothing compared to defences of old. This is largely a competition of good attacks, attacks that are better than ours which is why we would lose if we tried to play a free flowing attacking game.
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Hmm, I think you overrate our defense, each one you mentioned I believe are better. I would actually say our defence is our weakest point and our other positions aren't great.

Saying that though if you do have a manager that can organise a defence well then any set of defenders have the potential to do a decent job. I think Hodgson is pretty good in that regard however I don't think hes had long enough to sort it out properly
 
Josh-LUFC said:
Hmm, I think you overrate our defense, each one you mentioned I believe are better. I would actually say our defence is our weakest point and our other positions aren't great.

Saying that though if you do have a manager that can organise a defence well then any set of defenders have the potential to do a decent job. I think Hodgson is pretty good in that regard however I don't think hes had long enough to sort it out properly
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Just look at the evidence for a second, we limited one of the best attacks in the competition to long shots, by contrast the rest of the games have been filled with chances due to poor defending. I think you underrate the players individually, Cole is still probably the best LB in the world, Lescott and Terry were both starters in defences which one major trophies largely due to good defending, Johnson, while probably the weak link, is still decent defending and a real asset going forward and Hart is one of the best 'keepers in the world (I'd say 2nd best).
 
Agree with Simon here. Netherlands have looked very shaky as have France in all the warm up games. Italy have a few good players in Chiellini, De Rossi and Buffon but full backs/wing backs are poor defensively, likewise with Spain.

The only team I believe has a stronger defence is Germany, but that could be because I have such a high opinion of Neuer, Hummels and Lahm
 
GioDosDallas said:
Agree with Simon here. Netherlands have looked very shaky as have France in all the warm up games. Italy have a few good players in Chiellini, De Rossi and Buffon but full backs/wing backs are poor defensively, likewise with Spain.

The only team I believe has a stronger defence is Germany, but that could be because I have such a high opinion of Neuer, Hummels and Lahm
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Individually they are all great players, although I rate Hart above Neuer and Lahm is being played out of position.

Hart

Lahm, Hummels, Terry, Cole

would be almost unbeatable IMO.
 
Simon21-LUFC said:
Just look at the evidence for a second, we limited one of the best attacks in the competition to long shots, by contrast the rest of the games have been filled with chances due to poor defending. I think you underrate the players individually, Cole is still probably the best LB in the world, Lescott and Terry were both starters in defences which one major trophies largely due to good defending, Johnson, while probably the weak link, is still decent defending and a real asset going forward and Hart is one of the best 'keepers in the world (I'd say 2nd best).
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Again i just disagree. Hart on current form is probably the best in the world (probably second in the world overall) and I'll give you that. Johnson is very poor, Terry is again very poor. You never know what Lescott is going to show up, he can be solid alongside someone good but it very mistake prone when he has a bad day which he has way too often to be considered a class defender. And I think I'm probably the only person on this forum that doesn't rate Cole anywhere near the best LB in the world. 4 or 5 years ago I woulda agreed he was one of the best but he has made a hell of a lot of mistakes for Cheski this season and just doesnt seem the same player. Just because we have kept France (who I wouldn't say they have one of the best attacks) down to 1 goal for 1 game doesn't mean a thing, I can easily see us conceding at least 3 or 4 goals if we have the pleasure of playing one of the best teams in the competition. Tell me Germany or Spain would struggle to get through our defence.
 
Simon21-LUFC said:
Individually they are all great players, although I rate Hart above Neuer and Lahm is being played out of position.

Hart

Lahm, Hummels, Terry, Cole

would be almost unbeatable IMO.
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Lahm is not being played out of position, he can naturally use both feet and can play both sides comfortably, he's one of the best full backs in the world in my opinion, same with Neuer who is an excellent keeper, in fact Germany easily have the strongest defense in my opinion, except when Mertesacker plays of course.

Holland are shaky at the back, especially Willems at left back, same with France because both Rami and Mexes are prone to mistakes. Italy have actually defended pretty well so far but will look better at the back in the next match once Barzagli comes back into the back 3 with De Rossi moving back into his usual defensive midfield role, although I really don't understand why they play Giaccherini as the left wingback, as an attacking winger he's not the best defensively.

And for the record, I would not have picked Terry in that "almost unbeatable" back 4 you named, Bonucci has been one of the best central defenders in the tournament so far in my opinion (along with Hummels) and would be a much better choice, and Buffon in goal, he's been one of the best keepers in the world for quite a while now.
 
Psycho2k said:
Lahm is not being played out of position, he can naturally use both feet and can play both sides comfortably, he's one of the best full backs in the world in my opinion, same with Neuer who is an excellent keeper, in fact Germany easily have the strongest defense in my opinion, except when Mertesacker plays of course.

Holland are shaky at the back, especially Willems at left back, same with France because both Rami and Mexes are prone to mistakes. Italy have actually defended pretty well so far but will look better at the back in the next match once Barzagli comes back into the back 3 with De Rossi moving back into his usual defensive midfield role, although I really don't understand why they play Giaccherini as the left wingback, as an attacking winger he's not the best defensively.

And for the record, I would not have picked Terry in that "almost unbeatable" back 4 you named, Bonucci has been one of the best central defenders in the tournament so far in my opinion (along with Hummels) and would be a much better choice, and Buffon in goal, he's been one of the best keepers in the world for quite a while now.
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Well I dont think he was picking out of any team, just combining England and Germany's team but If you were to pick the best defence I'd include Coentrau from Portugal I think. He is an awesome LB and I dont much rate Cole. I agree Bonucci is good as well and is easily better than Terry (although I don't consider Terry to be in the best 2 CBs England have let alone in the world)
 
Psycho2k said:
Lahm is not being played out of position, he can naturally use both feet and can play both sides comfortably, he's one of the best full backs in the world in my opinion, same with Neuer who is an excellent keeper, in fact Germany easily have the strongest defense in my opinion, except when Mertesacker plays of course.

Holland are shaky at the back, especially Willems at left back, same with France because both Rami and Mexes are prone to mistakes. Italy have actually defended pretty well so far but will look better at the back in the next match once Barzagli comes back into the back 3 with De Rossi moving back into his usual defensive midfield role, although I really don't understand why they play Giaccherini as the left wingback, as an attacking winger he's not the best defensively.

And for the record, I would not have picked Terry in that "almost unbeatable" back 4 you named, Bonucci has been one of the best central defenders in the tournament so far in my opinion (along with Hummels) and would be a much better choice, and Buffon in goal, he's been one of the best keepers in the world for quite a while now.
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I was just picking between Germany and England. Lahm is naturally right footed, although he's so good at LB it's hard to notice. Buffon is still brilliant but his age is catching up to him, Casillas, Hart and Neuer are all currently ahead of him IMO. As a unit England have put in the best defensive performance of the tournament so far, that can't really be denied.
 
Simon21-LUFC said:
England have put in the best defensive performance of the tournament so far, that can't really be denied.
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we used double the number of defenders than any other side as well.

but we didn't defend twice as well

and we had arguably the worst attack

Young and Welbeck did nothing all match bar get tackled easily and be offside.
 
Simon21-LUFC said:
No we didn't, we played 2 rigid sets of 4 when they had the ball
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they had the ball the entire match

therefore 8 at the back.

Royball

disgusting.

We didn't even have a shot on target other than a header from a set piece. All defence, no attack.
 
Simon21-LUFC said:
...Buffon is still brilliant but his age is catching up to him, Casillas, Hart and Neuer are all currently ahead of him IMO. As a unit England have put in the best defensive performance of the tournament so far, that can't really be denied.
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Since when has Buffon's age caught up with him? He's only 34, that's not that old for a keeper, plus he's been brilliant all season. England may of put in some good defensive performances but that was because they defended in such numbers at all times, Italy's defensive performances have been much better because they not only defended well but were able to move the ball out of defense effectively, something England's deep midfield seems incapable of doing which is why Welbeck looked so isolated for much of the game.
 
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