Off Topic 2019 GE

[Class of 73]

Blair is a war criminal in my eyes, I'm certainly not seeing things through rose tinted spectacles.

I just don't see how you can condemn Corbyn under the premise that he condones or supports terrorism (which I think is hyperbolic nonsense for my tuppence worth) but casually brush under the carpet that the Conservatives are supporting nations and aiding situations that create terrorists. That's before we even mention the fact that they did it in violation of international law. Then there's Priti Patel negotiating with Israel behind her own government's back.

The Tories are far more dangerous with foreign policy than Jeremy Corbyn could ever be in my opinion.

The whiff of hypocrisy eh. The Conservative party are the ones in Government at the moment and as I said there have been labour before them. The defense industry has been built on policies since the 2nd world war, by successive governments, whom try to balance military sales with those on our side. Sadly those on our side are sometimes powerful and very corrupt countries, which are themselves fighting other very powerful and corrupt countries and all fighting for land, power and in most cases religious domination......at the expense of freedom and the innocent.

I agree it’s a bloody awful, awful situation and whomever is in charge needs to be as transparent as possible and held to account, with the aim of trying to keep the people of our land safe. This, whilst trying to prevent another world war. Parliament then holds all party committees that scrutinize government policies and brings them to account.

I suppose that you are hoping that Corbyn gets into power and immediately severs all ties with those nations currently on our side. I suppose as well, he will immediately stop all of the nuclear warships / submarines going out to sea, which would be a good idea as they would be a busted flush anyway; he has stated that he would never use them.

So there mr Corbyn will sit in No10, friendless, defenseless and with a crumbling defense industry that watches the likes of France, Spain and other European countries start selling their weapons to those same countries. Will he be listened to, Will other countries follow his lead? Will America come to our aid if one of those said nations, or ISIS if it is allowed to have a resurgence, decides to take bits of our land? With a weakened defense allow the enemies of the western world flood our lands with refugees, as they are given free reign to do as they wish in other countries. Will he sell military hardware anywhere? Politics, divide and conquer...oh yes, and hypocrisy!

A lot of questions and for the record I am, as I put before, we need to unite and I am of the opinion that the real danger to the planet is global warming and global pollution.....which is again in the news in our country.

Anyway we will find out soon enough and our arguing won’t change anything, so let’s get our blinkers back on and return to football. Over & out as they say.

 

[Sunderpitt]

The whiff of hypocrisy eh. The Conservative party are the ones in Government at the moment and as I said there have been labour before them. The defense industry has been built on policies since the 2nd world war, by successive governments, whom try to balance military sales with those on our side. Sadly those on our side are sometimes powerful and very corrupt countries, which are themselves fighting other very powerful and corrupt countries and all fighting for land, power and in most cases religious domination......at the expense of freedom and the innocent.

I agree it’s a bloody awful, awful situation and whomever is in charge needs to be as transparent as possible and held to account, with the aim of trying to keep the people of our land safe. This, whilst trying to prevent another world war. Parliament then holds all party committees that scrutinize government policies and brings them to account.

I suppose that you are hoping that Corbyn gets into power and immediately severs all ties with those nations currently on our side. I suppose as well, he will immediately stop all of the nuclear warships / submarines going out to sea, which would be a good idea as they would be a busted flush anyway; he has stated that he would never use them.

So there mr Corbyn will sit in No10, friendless, defenseless and with a crumbling defense industry that watches the likes of France, Spain and other European countries start selling their weapons to those same countries. Will he be listened to, Will other countries follow his lead? Will America come to our aid if one of those said nations, or ISIS if it is allowed to have a resurgence, decides to take bits of our land? With a weakened defense allow the enemies of the western world flood our lands with refugees, as they are given free reign to do as they wish in other countries. Will he sell military hardware anywhere? Politics, divide and conquer...oh yes, and hypocrisy!

A lot of questions and for the record I am, as I put before, we need to unite and I am of the opinion that the real danger to the planet is global warming and global pollution.....which is again in the news in our country.

Anyway we will find out soon enough and our arguing won’t change anything, so let’s get our blinkers back on and return to football. Over & out as they say.

Thoughtful post... I guess most folk are in favour of nuclear disarmament... it is the unilateral bit that is the problem.

Seeing how most of the country is gradually drowning.. climate change wrought by humans should be if the highest political priority!

 

[Makemstine Roger]

List the aspects of society that have thrived under the Tory party since 2010

reported again. Really unnecessary for such a simple question

you forgot Blair the Witch and the iraq war how many deaths did he cause

 

[safc-noggieland]

I am what you would call a floating voter and have changed my mind a few times over the years. I also voted to remain. I believe we need a majority government to go forward. I cannot bring myself to vote for Labour and their policies. I don't believe they represent the WORKING MAN/WOMEN any more. We also need to give the people what they voted for and see what happens. This time I will vote for the Tories.

But surely you can’t believe or even imagine a Tory party have ANY policy that would benefit a working man or woman ? Then why in the last 9 NINE years have they not done so. No it must be time for achange AUSTERITY, AUSTERITY AUSTERITY has just sh:t on the worker while loosening the tax on the m/billionaires.
Give Labour a chance we know Boris will just let things roll along AT BEST.
JC for PM

 

[rooch 3]

But surely you can’t believe or even imagine a Tory party have ANY policy that would benefit a working man or woman ? Then why in the last 9 NINE years have they not done so. No it must be time for achange AUSTERITY, AUSTERITY AUSTERITY has just sh:t on the worker while loosening the tax on the m/billionaires.
Give Labour a chance we know Boris will just let things roll along AT BEST.
JC for PM

I would like to think I could agree with you but over here the pubs, b and bs and hotels are rammed every day every night 365 days a year and a large % come from the north east so I never see this hammering the working man you talk of I would love to see them when they are feeling flush

 

[Chunksafc]

Just a point on the NHS from someone who's family have all devoted teor lives to working in it or still in it.

I have seen the effect underfunding caused, the nights my dad sat up till the early hours trying to find a way to keep wards open to keep bean counters happy, I've seen my mam crying as her cancer patients spent their last days in a **** hole as they couldn't afford to redecorate the ward. My sister desperately trying to keep standards of care as high as possible while trying to juggle a budget she can't possibly achieve.

I have also seen a consultant spend 16 hours in surgery saving my dads life and apologising that he didn't keep us informed as he couldn't leave theatre, bringing the exact same team back in on a Sunday to complete an operation as he didn't trust anyone else to be present.

Our NHS has the most dedicated, brilliant people working for them under immeasurable pressure and I refuse to support any government that will even contemplate selling that off

 

[Jerry lee]

Just a point on the NHS from someone who's family have all devoted teor lives to working in it or still in it.

I have seen the effect underfunding caused, the nights my dad sat up till the early hours trying to find a way to keep wards open to keep bean counters happy, I've seen my mam crying as her cancer patients spent their last days in a **** hole as they couldn't afford to redecorate the ward. My sister desperately trying to keep standards of care as high as possible while trying to juggle a budget she can't possibly achieve.

I have also seen a consultant spend 16 hours in surgery saving my dads life and apologising that he didn't keep us informed as he couldn't leave theatre, bringing the exact same team back in on a Sunday to complete an operation as he didn't trust anyone else to be present.

Our NHS has the most dedicated, brilliant people working for them under immeasurable pressure and I refuse to support any government that will even contemplate selling that off

Totally agree with the SNP regarding the NHS & not been part of any agreement for privatisation

 

[DELETED ACCOUNT 1234]

The whiff of hypocrisy eh. The Conservative party are the ones in Government at the moment and as I said there have been labour before them. The defense industry has been built on policies since the 2nd world war, by successive governments, whom try to balance military sales with those on our side. Sadly those on our side are sometimes powerful and very corrupt countries, which are themselves fighting other very powerful and corrupt countries and all fighting for land, power and in most cases religious domination......at the expense of freedom and the innocent.

I agree it’s a bloody awful, awful situation and whomever is in charge needs to be as transparent as possible and held to account, with the aim of trying to keep the people of our land safe. This, whilst trying to prevent another world war. Parliament then holds all party committees that scrutinize government policies and brings them to account.

I suppose that you are hoping that Corbyn gets into power and immediately severs all ties with those nations currently on our side. I suppose as well, he will immediately stop all of the nuclear warships / submarines going out to sea, which would be a good idea as they would be a busted flush anyway; he has stated that he would never use them.

So there mr Corbyn will sit in No10, friendless, defenseless and with a crumbling defense industry that watches the likes of France, Spain and other European countries start selling their weapons to those same countries. Will he be listened to, Will other countries follow his lead? Will America come to our aid if one of those said nations, or ISIS if it is allowed to have a resurgence, decides to take bits of our land? With a weakened defense allow the enemies of the western world flood our lands with refugees, as they are given free reign to do as they wish in other countries. Will he sell military hardware anywhere? Politics, divide and conquer...oh yes, and hypocrisy!

A lot of questions and for the record I am, as I put before, we need to unite and I am of the opinion that the real danger to the planet is global warming and global pollution.....which is again in the news in our country.

Anyway we will find out soon enough and our arguing won’t change anything, so let’s get our blinkers back on and return to football. Over & out as they say.

If those "on our side" are war criminals, killing thousands of innocent people, torturing and murdering dissidents, helping to cause a famine that has affected 17 million people and promoting the most radical form of oppressive Islam on the planet then yes I absolutely hope that Jeremy Corbyn condemns them.

I'm amazed how these kind of actions are considered "the price of doing business" whilst terrorists are cowards. It's all the same in my eyes.

As for nuclear disarmament, yes I'm 100% in favour of getting rid of our nukes. They are not the answer to anything. But nuclear disarmament and getting rid of defence are two entirely different things. Getting rid of nuclear weapons does not make us defenceless.

 

[Class of 73]

If those "on our side" are war criminals, killing thousands of innocent people, torturing and murdering dissidents, helping to cause a famine that has affected 17 million people and promoting the most radical form of oppressive Islam on the planet then yes I absolutely hope that Jeremy Corbyn condemns them.

I'm amazed how these kind of actions are considered "the price of doing business" whilst terrorists are cowards. It's all the same in my eyes.

As for nuclear disarmament, yes I'm 100% in favour of getting rid of our nukes. They are not the answer to anything. But nuclear disarmament and getting rid of defence are two entirely different things. Getting rid of nuclear weapons does not make us defenceless.

Yep, what then do you think Corbyn will do if he gets into No 10? Remember most Middle Eastern countries are guilty of war crimes, which side do you think he will choose?
The nukes have provided the M.A.D. Solution, in other words they stopped a major escalation of war between the east and the west since their invention. It’s called Mutually Assured Destruction.

 

[DELETED ACCOUNT 1234]

Yep, what then do you think Corbyn will do if he gets into No 10? Remember most Middle Eastern countries are guilty of war crimes, which side do you think he will choose?
The nukes have provided the M.A.D. Solution, in other words they stopped a major escalation of war between the east and the west since their invention. It’s called Mutually Assured Destruction.

It's not about choosing sides, it's about brokering peace where possible and fighting only when necessary against those committing atrocities. Instead we're arming those committing atrocities because they're "on our side". The west "choosing sides" is a large part of the problem.

As for M.A.D, I don't think it's a convincing argument that it's worked. Russia and the US have just decided to fight proxy wars and kill people in Korea, China, Vietnam, Iraq, Iran, Israel/Palestine, Yemen, Angola, Lebanon, Turkey, Cambodia, Afghanistan, Sudan, Syria, Ukraine, Libya and probably another dozen countries that I've missed instead. These conflicts have led to refugees the world over, to the rise in terrorism and the argument that greater defence is needed. They cause the problem, not prevent it.

 

[FulwellBri]

If trump gets in again and boris gets elected say goodbye to free national health.
You can probably say goodbye to nissan and hello to charity shops.
Mind you the upside is old grannies will be able to buy mince and ham by the ounce.
Oh by the way the shipyards and coal mines will not reopen once we fully exit. Bojo's party closed them and are unlikely to reopen them.
Oh guess where that 350m a week is or will be that we save by being out of the eu?
You don't need to guess..it was a big fat whopping lie by the biggest shyster in politics..Farage.
Tommy Robinson for PM anyone?

 

[Saf]

I see the Labour lovies are back trying to convince everybody that the Conservatives are going to sell off the NHS. Has there ever been an election when Labour haven't done this scare tactic?

Why any working man would feel connected to an ultra left wing party is anybodies guess.

Jeremy Corbyn quite simply sides with terrorists. He really does. Turning up at wreath laying events for the bastards that butchered the Israeli Olympic team. Calling Hamas his friends. Going for a meal and drinks with the IRA at the most inappropriate times.

Diane Abbott. Are you really happy to see this RACIST bitch in government? She's made so many comments now about 'whites' her agenda is obvious. She openly praised the IRA, too. She's also demonstrably thick as ****.

John McDonnell. The man who also openly supported the IRA. He said it was the brave actions of the IRA bombs and bullets which brought about peace. Blowing kids up after dropping a bomb in a bin isn't really that brave. The prick.

Any working class man who seriously believes that a vote for Labour is a vote for the working class seriously needs to engage their brain. We have nothing in common with that lot anymore.

 

[Class of 73]

It's not about choosing sides, it's about brokering peace where possible and fighting only when necessary against those committing atrocities. Instead we're arming those committing atrocities because they're "on our side". The west "choosing sides" is a large part of the problem.

As for M.A.D, I don't think it's a convincing argument that it's worked. Russia and the US have just decided to fight proxy wars and kill people in Korea, China, Vietnam, Iraq, Iran, Israel/Palestine, Yemen, Angola, Lebanon, Turkey, Cambodia, Afghanistan, Sudan, Syria, Ukraine, Libya and probably another dozen countries that I've missed instead. These conflicts have led to refugees the world over, to the rise in terrorism and the argument that greater defence is needed. They cause the problem, not prevent it.

Ah, brokering peace, like it. Good luck to Mr Corbyn with that, just look at how the Syrians broker peace with the help of Mr Putin. How the Chinese are creating a huge empire in Asia, landing on atolls in international waters and then making them into airfields. Oh yes, a leader who has shown his hand before taking power will go down a treat with Putin and Xi Jinpin - they have shown how they deal with the weak.
Utter despots, who destroyed lives and were, or are, in every one of the countries listed above. It’s a one to scratch your head about, as in what do you do. You have to remember that you cannot broker peace from a position of weakness and you cannot hope to negotiate with people who have a religious extremist ideology that has an utter hatred of democracy.
I realise that there is good and bad on both sides, fueled by corruption, greed and the lust for power. I do though, pick a side and it’s the one that stands for freedom and democracy and the one that stands up to the despots and bullies.
Trump is an idiot abroad, but the Americans are at last waking up to that. He is being impeached and could get voted out of office in the next elections. Boris is someone who people either love or hate. He could get into No10, but then Corbyn is exactly the same. Look up on what happens to people who criticise Putin, Xi Pinin, Kim Jong -Un and the other despots who worm their way into absolute power, treat their citizens.
You put in about the Russians and the Americans fighting wars, but reality it was communism against democracy, which has been raging since 1945 and Religious extremism has now been added to the ghastly fight.
We need equality, respect, democracy and freedom of speech. I believe that the basis of that should be taught to all children, hoping that they will grow up to choose a religion if they so wish.
It’s great that we can openly debate our beliefs, eh
Anyway the match is on in a few hours

 

[farnboromackem]

Our NHS has the most dedicated, brilliant people working for them under immeasurable pressure and I refuse to support any government that will even contemplate selling that off[/QUOTE]

Excellent post. Have you got a link to suggest that any party will sell off the NHS? I honestly haven't seen this but I'm genuinely interested in reading about it.

 

[Chunksafc]

Our NHS has the most dedicated, brilliant people working for them under immeasurable pressure and I refuse to support any government that will even contemplate selling that off

Excellent post. Have you got a link to suggest that any party will sell off the NHS? I honestly haven't seen this but I'm genuinely interested in reading about it.[/QUOTE]

There have been numerous articles from all sides suggesting the NHS will be part of trade deals. Then there are the private companies working their way into various sectors of it all ready.

No party is ever going to admit to wanting rid of it as they know its a sure fire way to lose votes, but having spoken to family, friends and others who either have or still do work in the NHS, they all are concerned it will be sold down the river and before people know it, it will be gone.

My statement is not aimed solely at one party, far from it. It will be a question I will pose to all the candidates who stand in my constituency and something I will actively be looking for more information on in their manefestos.

All I urge people to do is not sleep walk into losing our NHS as once it's gone, it will never be back

 

[Saf]

Excellent post. Have you got a link to suggest that any party will sell off the NHS? I honestly haven't seen this but I'm genuinely interested in reading about it.

There have been numerous articles from all sides suggesting the NHS will be part of trade deals. Then there are the private companies working their way into various sectors of it all ready.

No party is ever going to admit to wanting rid of it as they know its a sure fire way to lose votes, but having spoken to family, friends and others who either have or still do work in the NHS, they all are concerned it will be sold down the river and before people know it, it will be gone.

My statement is not aimed solely at one party, far from it. It will be a question I will pose to all the candidates who stand in my constituency and something I will actively be looking for more information on in their manefestos.

All I urge people to do is not sleep walk into losing our NHS as once it's gone, it will never be back[/QUOTE]
What counts for me is that Boris Johnson and Donald Trump have categorically ruled it out.

I know that Labour under Tony Blair sold off private contracts, though.

 

[DELETED ACCOUNT 1234]

Ah, brokering peace, like it. Good luck to Mr Corbyn with that, just look at how the Syrians broker peace with the help of Mr Putin. How the Chinese are creating a huge empire in Asia, landing on atolls in international waters and then making them into airfields. Oh yes, a leader who has shown his hand before taking power will go down a treat with Putin and Xi Jinpin - they have shown how they deal with the weak.
Utter despots, who destroyed lives and were, or are, in every one of the countries listed above. It’s a one to scratch your head about, as in what do you do. You have to remember that you cannot broker peace from a position of weakness and you cannot hope to negotiate with people who have a religious extremist ideology that has an utter hatred of democracy.
I realise that there is good and bad on both sides, fueled by corruption, greed and the lust for power. I do though, pick a side and it’s the one that stands for freedom and democracy and the one that stands up to the despots and bullies.
Trump is an idiot abroad, but the Americans are at last waking up to that. He is being impeached and could get voted out of office in the next elections. Boris is someone who people either love or hate. He could get into No10, but then Corbyn is exactly the same. Look up on what happens to people who criticise Putin, Xi Pinin, Kim Jong -Un and the other despots who worm their way into absolute power, treat their citizens.
You put in about the Russians and the Americans fighting wars, but reality it was communism against democracy, which has been raging since 1945 and Religious extremism has now been added to the ghastly fight.
We need equality, respect, democracy and freedom of speech. I believe that the basis of that should be taught to all children, hoping that they will grow up to choose a religion if they so wish.
It’s great that we can openly debate our beliefs, eh
Anyway the match is on in a few hours

It's a good debate mate, glad we can explain our opposing viewpoints without it coming down to cheap digs or patronising others as most political debates do.

We're on opposite sides and I think we're both strong enough in our viewpoints and justifications that it's unlikely to change anytime soon.

I'm hoping we adopt a different approach and not just with regards to foreign policy, but I suspect the country is more likely to vote your way than mine.

Anyway, we'll stop derailing the thread with our foreign policy discussion and try to enjoy some footy instead!

 

[Gordon Armstrong]

This politics thread is being 'bumped' 'cos I've closed the takeover thread (which is now being used for things other than a takeover, like election stuff)

 

[wtdog]

It's the year 2089, election year, Les Bean the Labour leader tells us that the Tories will sell off the NHS...and free unicorns for all.
Unicorns that **** diamonds and public transport.
The public transport will lead you to a genderless world of honey rivers, candy floss trees and free parking forever.
When you get parked magical pixies will valet your car and increase its value.

 

[Gordon Armstrong]

Not many of us will be around to vote in that year's election