Yes and he is very capable of running fast times. I'm sure he would have been thereabouts
2017 Eclipse Stakes
- Thread starter Ron
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I think he would be the best of them. He's a very good horse but he's benefiting from a lack of any significant opposition. That could continue for the rest of the season with the news that Almanzor will miss his intended come back race and the negative update on Minding. I'd expect the three-year olds to step up abit as the year goes on but the only two of them I'd be interested in are Cliffs Of Moher and Enable (although I think the Oaks was a very poor race).
He gave 10 pounds to a 120 rated 3yo, his previous best rating was a career best 119 last time out and he looks to have stepped up significantly on that, hes clearly an improving horse. Both of the front 2 ran career bests, well clear of the likes of Eminent and Cliffs Of Moher are in with a bunch of horses all supposedly around 116/119 from the Derby and Decorated Knight 119. The time was solid as well.
Highland Reel is a glorified thief, he beat a handicapper in the Coronation after Hawkbill didnt stay. Stole the BC Turf last year from Flinstshire.
Hes a good solid Group 1 racehorse but in terms of class, hes not top drawer, will always lose to proper champion.
Golden Horn, Almanzor, Winx, Found and even Postponed and New Bay all put him away. People getting carried away this season because he took his opportunities in a very weak division, but Ulysses has stepped up now and id fancy him strongly to beat Highland Reel if they meet again, at 10f or 12.
Hes a good solid Group 1 racehorse but in terms of class, hes not top drawer, will always lose to proper champion.
Golden Horn, Almanzor, Winx, Found and even Postponed and New Bay all put him away. People getting carried away this season because he took his opportunities in a very weak division, but Ulysses has stepped up now and id fancy him strongly to beat Highland Reel if they meet again, at 10f or 12.
No one is saying Highland Reel is a vintage middle distance horse, but he's still better than what was in that Eclipse. The muddly pace probably wouldn't have suited him, but I'm not sure they'd have allowed it to develop the way it did when they've got a strong stayer like Highland Reel in the race.
i don't think there's enough evidence to say Ulysees has massively improved, on looking good against a bunch of poor 3yo. Yeah he's reversed form with Decorated Knight, but he had interference, and probably didn't run up to form.
I'd imagine Ulysees and Highland Reel will clash in the KG, and I'd still be firmly in the Highland Reel camp.
i don't think there's enough evidence to say Ulysees has massively improved, on looking good against a bunch of poor 3yo. Yeah he's reversed form with Decorated Knight, but he had interference, and probably didn't run up to form.
I'd imagine Ulysees and Highland Reel will clash in the KG, and I'd still be firmly in the Highland Reel camp.
Highland Reel, Ulysses, Enable in the King George would be some race, hope they skip the Irish Oaks with the filly, think she is a level above the derby horses and would definitely be challenging the two older horses getting a lot of weight.
If ever he had a chance to beat Highland Reel it was at Ascot.10 furlongs is not his trip and Ulysses had the race won at the furlong pole yet he still got beat. HR wins easily in the King George and if they met in the Juddmonte I would fancy him to gallop all over him with the longer straight.
Ulysses will slaughter Highland Reel next time, take it to the bank.
Talking about a historic animal here.
Talking about a historic animal here.
She could be but that form is very hard to take seriously. Most of the field would struggle in a 0-100 handicap. The only one to mark her against is Rhoda but god knows what level she was running to.
If Enable where to run then I think she definitely has a massive chance, and would be the favourite in my opinion. I'm not sure she will run though, there are so many fillies races, that I think they might wait till the Arc to really test her.
People may say it was a poor Oaks, but Rhodedendron was beaten 5 and the 3rd was 11 lengths back. So regardless of wether they are poor, that is still some serious distance she's put between herself and her rivals. And people only think the field was poor, because she made them look that way.
She is definitely a serious fillie, and could beat the likes of Highland Reel, Ulysees and Barney Roy over any middle distance trip. We will have to wait and see if she gets her chance to prove how good she is.
People may say it was a poor Oaks, but Rhodedendron was beaten 5 and the 3rd was 11 lengths back. So regardless of wether they are poor, that is still some serious distance she's put between herself and her rivals. And people only think the field was poor, because she made them look that way.
She is definitely a serious fillie, and could beat the likes of Highland Reel, Ulysees and Barney Roy over any middle distance trip. We will have to wait and see if she gets her chance to prove how good she is.
Ulysses has grown in stature
We reflect on the weekend's golf and horse racing and have a long-range pick for the Breeders' Cup.
Racing
It seems a long time ago now that a gawky, inexperienced horse was fast-tracked to the Investec Derby after winning his maiden by eight lengths. He got buffeted about, became lit up then didn’t settle before unsurprisingly throwing the towel in when the gap between Massaat and Deauville slammed shut on him over two furlongs from the finish.
Roll on 13 months and we see the mastery of Sir Michael Stoute in full effect.
The horse had only had five races during the interim, winning two, but on Saturday suddenly there appeared a man, all beefed up, full of swagger and in no mood to lie down once challenged by Barney Roy in the final furlong. Successfully conceding 10lb to Richard Hannon’s rapidly-improving St James’s Palace winner should not be underestimated.
Connections of both horses remain coy over where they’re likely to be seen next, a return to a mile for the runner-up looking most likely, with the Sussex Stakes a popular route for Hannon’s very best three-year-olds in recent seasons.
Stoute was at his prickly best when it was suggested post-race that at 10 furlongs he’d now found the ideal trip for the winner, offering: “He settles better now, he’ll get a mile and a half.”
Having won the Group Three Gordon Stakes over exactly that trip at Glorious Goodwood last summer, it’s hard not to read into the trainer’s quote and assume that what he really meant was that “He settles better now, he’ll win a Group One at a mile and a half.”
That Group One could well be the King George at Ascot at the end of the month but a more suitable long-term target at this stage would appear to be a return to the Breeders’ Cup – this year staged at Del Mar (‘Where the Surf meets the Turf’) for the first time.
Highland Reel is the 9/4 favourite for the 12-furlong Breeders’ Cup Turf having won it last year and maintained his fine form this term, but Ulysses is after him.
There was six and a quarter lengths between them at Santa Anita last November and that gap was narrowed to just a length and a quarter in last month’s Prince Of Wales’s Stakes, when Ulysses briefly hit the front before being worn down close home.
A bigger and better Ulysses is likely to be heading to America this winter and whether it’s the King George, the Juddmonte International at York or the Champion Stakes he contests in the meantime, he’ll have more top-class form in the book by then and looks worth a small investment now at 8/1 for the Turf.
We reflect on the weekend's golf and horse racing and have a long-range pick for the Breeders' Cup.
Racing
It seems a long time ago now that a gawky, inexperienced horse was fast-tracked to the Investec Derby after winning his maiden by eight lengths. He got buffeted about, became lit up then didn’t settle before unsurprisingly throwing the towel in when the gap between Massaat and Deauville slammed shut on him over two furlongs from the finish.
Roll on 13 months and we see the mastery of Sir Michael Stoute in full effect.
The horse had only had five races during the interim, winning two, but on Saturday suddenly there appeared a man, all beefed up, full of swagger and in no mood to lie down once challenged by Barney Roy in the final furlong. Successfully conceding 10lb to Richard Hannon’s rapidly-improving St James’s Palace winner should not be underestimated.
Connections of both horses remain coy over where they’re likely to be seen next, a return to a mile for the runner-up looking most likely, with the Sussex Stakes a popular route for Hannon’s very best three-year-olds in recent seasons.
Stoute was at his prickly best when it was suggested post-race that at 10 furlongs he’d now found the ideal trip for the winner, offering: “He settles better now, he’ll get a mile and a half.”
Having won the Group Three Gordon Stakes over exactly that trip at Glorious Goodwood last summer, it’s hard not to read into the trainer’s quote and assume that what he really meant was that “He settles better now, he’ll win a Group One at a mile and a half.”
That Group One could well be the King George at Ascot at the end of the month but a more suitable long-term target at this stage would appear to be a return to the Breeders’ Cup – this year staged at Del Mar (‘Where the Surf meets the Turf’) for the first time.
Highland Reel is the 9/4 favourite for the 12-furlong Breeders’ Cup Turf having won it last year and maintained his fine form this term, but Ulysses is after him.
There was six and a quarter lengths between them at Santa Anita last November and that gap was narrowed to just a length and a quarter in last month’s Prince Of Wales’s Stakes, when Ulysses briefly hit the front before being worn down close home.
A bigger and better Ulysses is likely to be heading to America this winter and whether it’s the King George, the Juddmonte International at York or the Champion Stakes he contests in the meantime, he’ll have more top-class form in the book by then and looks worth a small investment now at 8/1 for the Turf.
Timeform Review
".... the feature race itself was very much a Newmarket-centric affair, with the end result being a vintage renewal which featured a thrilling finish between two still progressing, top-class performers. With contrasting styles going head to head at the line, Ulysses (up 3 lb to 128) and Barney Roy (now 127) represented the clash of generations this race is designed for, that the pair managed to pull clear in what was a muddling race all to their credit, the winner Ulysses' performance among the better ones in the race this century. It was a race full of incident, with the trouble in the back straight significant, damaging the cause of the favourite Cliffs of Moher (loses +, now just 123), though his form didn't entitle him to that position and he'd have needed to improve plenty to trouble the principals."
".... the feature race itself was very much a Newmarket-centric affair, with the end result being a vintage renewal which featured a thrilling finish between two still progressing, top-class performers. With contrasting styles going head to head at the line, Ulysses (up 3 lb to 128) and Barney Roy (now 127) represented the clash of generations this race is designed for, that the pair managed to pull clear in what was a muddling race all to their credit, the winner Ulysses' performance among the better ones in the race this century. It was a race full of incident, with the trouble in the back straight significant, damaging the cause of the favourite Cliffs of Moher (loses +, now just 123), though his form didn't entitle him to that position and he'd have needed to improve plenty to trouble the principals."
Every older horse has to give weight away to three year olds – that is the weight for age allowance system. Had the race been run last year, Barney Roy would have won because he would have received 11lb from Ulysses and he only failed to prevail by a flared nostril.
Not really QM. The WFA is adjusted throughout the year to account for the younger horse getting closer to maturity. Theoretically it should have produced the same result. But then you knew that
Not really QM. The WFA is adjusted throughout the year to account for the younger horse getting closer to maturity. Theoretically it should have produced the same result. But then you knew that
I know WFA is adjusted during the season but if you look at last year’s Eclipse, the three year olds carried 8st 10lb and this year they carried 8st 11lb because the WFA scale was adjusted by the BHA so that from July 2017, the three year olds would receive 1lb less in races over ten furlongs or more.
I love it how the weight for age allowance is now being used as a positive to boost a horses ability 
He may have conceded 10 pounds to Barney Roy, but he also only beat a horse who at 3 is still not physically at his peak, who was only having his 5th start on a racecourse.
It's amazing how the information can be manipulated to suit an argument.
It is honestly one of the most stupid statements to try to use the WFA allowance to score points. It is there for a reason. If you've actually seen alot of 3yo and 4yo horses in the parade ring then you'd realise that the 10 pounds is really not all that much. There is a massive physical difference between the age groups. If the allowance wasn't there then a 3yo would probably never win an all aged group 1, unless it's a superstar like Frankel, and even he'd have probably struggled if you'd whacked another 10 pounds on his back in his clash with Canford Cliffs for example.
He may have conceded 10 pounds to Barney Roy, but he also only beat a horse who at 3 is still not physically at his peak, who was only having his 5th start on a racecourse.
It's amazing how the information can be manipulated to suit an argument.
It is honestly one of the most stupid statements to try to use the WFA allowance to score points. It is there for a reason. If you've actually seen alot of 3yo and 4yo horses in the parade ring then you'd realise that the 10 pounds is really not all that much. There is a massive physical difference between the age groups. If the allowance wasn't there then a 3yo would probably never win an all aged group 1, unless it's a superstar like Frankel, and even he'd have probably struggled if you'd whacked another 10 pounds on his back in his clash with Canford Cliffs for example.
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