2017 Driver Lineup

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SgtBhaji said:
I hear ya. Button has probably never really achieved what he was truly capable of. But Coulthard was just never capable of those things imo. He drove some fantastic cars and never really looked close to champion material.
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It's quite ironic in a way, that Hamilton (Westy's law broken etc) gets lambasted for his playboy lifestyle, yet it was this that Button got a lot of criticism for in his earlier years and a reason many felt that he didn't deliver on track because he was too distracted off it.
 
SgtBhaji said:
He'll quite openly own his mistakes though. Gotta admire that.
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Yes and No. It's what made him popular as a person, but all the niceness and openness made him look like he lacked the killer instinct of a Schuey, Alonso, Vettel, Hamilton etc. He appeared to lack that focus and aggressiveness that makes the true great's great.

If nice guys won WDC's on the basis people liked them, then he'd have won a lot more.
 
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There's no two ways about it- on raw pace Button is behind Hamilton, Alonso, Vettel.

However, he is an absolute craftsman in races, and in the one chance he had in a dominant car, grasped it with both hands. Ask yourself- would Vettel, Alonso, or Hamilton have won any more world titles than he in those same cars? I very much doubt it. Would they have had more poles? Yes. More race wins? Probably one or two more in his McLaren years but not many given that they were up against a genius 4 years of Adrian Neweys Red Bull and would have had top class racers as a team mate.

He's mixed it with people who are going to go into the all time great categories and come out with a World Title, 15 race wins, the greatest ever race win in F1 history in Canada, and the respect of every team mate he's gone up against.

He doesn't design the **** heaps that he has had to put up with every year in his carer bar 2009-2012. 15 race wins in 4 seasons in competitive cars is very good (not great, but very good given the competition).

I hope he manages to get back on the top step or the podium one day- he owes no one anything and has been a brilliant character in F1 for all these years. Coulthard could not lace this guys boots as a driver.

Big respect to Jenson.
 
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Reactions: Number 1 Jasper, Mrcento, Smithers and 3 others
Very sad to hear, but I suspected something very early on this season as I stated with his helmet swaps with fellow drivers (no innuendo intended). Pace was off and he looked out of sorts. Leaves behind a big hole to fill i'd say.

Button or Lynn. Nasr to stay at Sauber imo.
 
Not suprised, but I think Button has turned them down which would indicate he is also retiring. If Nsar gets the seat that would highlight how far Williams has fallen - Frank must be eating his words - not so long ago he ousted Hill and said he could put a monkey in his cars!
 
If Button retires too, it will open the grid up nicely for some new drivers to come in.

Good decision by Massa. Williams are falling back and he can see that the chances of getting back to the front again have gone.
 
Smithers said:
Depends whether they are filled by low level pay drivers or real talent.
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Hopefully Williams and McLaren won't need the pay drivers, so either they can promote from within or pluck an emerging driver from the back of the grid into a decent drive.

Realistically, it's only Sauber this year who have had questionable drivers, but they are desperate for cash. Haryanto wasn't half as bad as some feared he could be.
 
After watching and listening to Button in the press conference the most common phrase that was said was "we are making progress". Surely if he was to retire he would have made that announcement already.
 
Jenson doesn't want to retire. He wants to stay at McLaren since he believes as you say that they are making progress and will get back to front. He'll find out this month if he can do that, most likely he can't.

Then it becomes Williams or retirement and i expect he'll choose retirement. All of his comments are that he would need to be at a team that is working towards victories. Williams are at best going to be treading water and probably going backwards.

As for Massa it's the right decision. The performance was clearly beginning to go this year. It's nice to see somebody who's been around as long as him going out in a dignified way (as opposed to the Barrichello approach).
 
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Monza is ideal place for massa to announce it to his ferrari family. I agree that its only right. He's just going nowhere and when its time its time.

He got very lucky that time and getting out and enjoying his retirement is the way to go.

Button... i dunno. I fancy he probably doesn't want to retire but is using it in the negotiations. I fail to see where the hell mcclaren will produce a better driver given the changes coming next year need a bit of a experience head.
 
For Massa it feels the right time- he's not been driving the wheels off that Williams (saying that, neither has Bottas) but he has not shown the edge.

Button for me has been driving as well as ever and providing great competition to an excellent team mate..again..and I don't feel that Vandoorne is an upgrade. Yes he is talented but a year or two elsewhere on the grid makes the most sense to me to let him learn his craft and race but would McLaren pay for him and let someone have him for free(?) and who would be the sort of team who would want that?

I don't think it would be the worst idea in the world for Williams- who else is available, young and any better right now? Vandoorne at Williams would be most interesting as would Williams becoming the second Honda powered team. It's obvious that as long as Mercedes Benz have a team, no one else has a prayer of winning as their customer and whilst Williams is a rival of McLaren, they don't have a McLaren budget these days or the aero brilliance of Prodromou, and therefore I think they would be a good British partnership to ramp up the Honda development, they'd almost be both exclusive and most other teams have already been powered by the Merc and Ferrari engines, and Vandoorne could be a good way to begin the relationship.


But of course, that's all F1 fantasy!
 
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Definitely the right decision from Massa. He's been slipping backwards for a while now (albeit a good chunk of that is car related) but it was becoming more and more telling that he wasn't quite at the level he should be.

I wouldn't say he ever truly had an "edge" of a great but at his best, he was bloody quick and probably deserved one WDC on pace alone. He's probably been more unlucky than anything else, with the last corner of 2008 being a bit of a freak thing to cost him a title and the freak accident with the spring (which IMO he never recovered from). It's 2 moments of fate he had no say in. Seems like a really nice and very classy guy and he's going out at a decent level still. Good luck to him in the future and hopefully he can go out on a relative high if the situation allows.

As for Williams, they'll find a way to make a mess of another appointment. Button probably won't be interested, feel it's McLaren or nobody for him as Williams slip back (though i wouldn't rule out Renault, however they are more of a project he probably doesn't have time for). They'll probably end up signing Nasr with Bottas and produce an OK car that neither get much out of.
 
Massa's career will forever be haunted by the words "Fernando is faster than you. Can you confirm you understood that message?"


However, someone has kindly turned this into a nice little jingle

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