Off Topic YOUR VOTE COUNTED...

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ON 23rd of June which way are you going to vote?.

  • IN

    Votes: 28 43.8%

  • OUT

    Votes: 34 53.1%

  • DON'T KNOW

    Votes: 4 6.3%
  • Total voters
    64
  • Poll closed .
BobbyD said:
whilst i agree to some degree, cameron volleyed that over into the long grass on Friday and we still saw falls on Friday and Monday. As everyone has been mentioning in the other thread, it was just investors doing their standard overreacting
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Wrong. Cameron resigned on Friday, he didn't clarify what was going to happen with article 50.

The markets reacted to the news of Brexit on Friday, the fall wasn't due to 'over reaction' it was due to the huge uncertainty that the UK had placed itself in. You deliver uncertainty to the markets and that's what you get.

What's happened this week is that Cameron has clarified that **** all is going to happen until he's passed the poison chalice to his successor, the timescale for that is at least 2 months away, so nothing is now happening.

Add to that, there's now plenty of legal experts saying that the 1972 act that got us into the EU to start with will need to be overturned by Parliament, which will require 2 things;

1. A bill that is put in front of the House of Commons - which can't happen until November
2. Said Bill would have to be voted on in the House and then ratified by the Lords.......

So the markets have reacted and calmed as we've not exited anything as yet.
 
BobbyD said:
whilst i agree to some degree, cameron volleyed that over into the long grass on Friday and we still saw falls on Friday and Monday. As everyone has been mentioning in the other thread, it was just investors doing their standard overreacting
Click to expand...
part of that was the markets had bet on remain winning so there is a rush to sell off stock ,particularly in those companies particularly vulnerable to Brexit ,as quick as possible as all traders will be trying at same time and the last takes the biggest hit you get MITO's "cliff" graphs. The stock markets are to an extent just a form of gambling with bigger stakes .

You may gather i am quite cynical about the way stock markets behave which often bears little relationship to how the economy or even individual stocks is performing
 
Tobes said:
He should have hammered that point home before the ****ing vote though, I'd been talking about the examples of Norway and Switzerland for weeks. It's the direct comparable to our position and there's no way the EU are going to buckle to our demands on this issue, as they'll not want to be seen as being anything but strong in the way it deals with Brexit.

That fat chump and the neo Nazi have lead the country up the garden path - well the dumb ****s at least - with blatant lies and untruths. As Saint says there's no accountability for it either, it's absolutely outrageous.
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There have been a lot of accusations that Remain didn't make their case strongly enough, but I think that's only partly true.
The debunking of the £350M claim was robust enough but it didn't stop Leavers quoting it as a reason for their vote right up to the end.
There was a huge amount of material from economists and industry warning of a downturn. There was plenty of evidence to show that immigrants make a positive net contribution to our society rather being a drain on it. There was enough evidence, if we wanted to look for it, that excessive bureaucracy is a lamentable aspect of modern life in any advanced country rather than a peculiarly EU phenomenon. Moreover, this bureaucracy actually protects our rights in many areas rather than endanger them.

There could be an Alpine range of evidence there, but those who don't want to see it will simply look the other way.

The fact is that once people have made up their minds they are rarely open to change. I'm afraid this referendum was carried on an emotional response rather than an intellectual one - on both sides.
 
saintKlopp said:
It's surreal.
All along I've been saying "surely this can't happen?" at various intervals as new idiocies are unfolded - yet they all come about. Boris as PM would be the final nail in the coffin of my faith in my own judgement.
I really don't want to live in a country run by Boris. I'd move abroad - only the buggers won't have me now so I'm stuck with it.

As for accountability for the scandalous lies on which the vote was won and lost, no-one will ever be brought to book over it because we meekly accept that lying is what politicians do.
It's like someone saying vote for me and I'll send you a Merc but you get a Fiesta. It'll still get you about but it wasn't quite what you were expecting.
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Absolutely incredible set of events since Friday. Like many I am thinking I am surely going to wake up and this has all been a dream. Observers in US and the Far East think that we've collectively taken leave of our senses.

1. We've taken a massive seismic decision on our future and that of several generations without a plan on how to deliver it. Absolutely incredible. And the wise British (mostly English) public went for it. never asked for that plan, only trusted the likes of Boris et al to know what they were doing.

2. The financial collapse was predicted. The stock market and pound may well recover some stability but no sane economist had predicted we would be better off. We may limit the damage and that that's being optimistic. The long economic health is on a knife edge. Will the likes of Nissan move from Sunderland to Belgium? ditto the banks and other financial institutions of the EU countries. When there was a prediction of economic uncertainty the Brexiteers screamed "Scaremongering" when they knew full well it was true.

3. The racism and xenophobic monster. Into the campaign, I said that the likes of Boris, Gove and even Patel were playing with fire when they adopted farage's language. We now have had a increase in attacks against not only the East europeans but also against people from Asia or people born here to asian parents.

All this for something that we had no plan for and now idea on how to proceed. The Uk have declared their negotiating hands. They would like to trade with a single market but would like some control on the free movements of people. The EU and Merkel said NO. So if we are lucky we'll have something in between. People are now realising The Leave mantra of " We buy more BMWs from Germany that they buy cars from us and no way would the Germans impose tarrifs on us" does not look so secure now does it? Not even worth the paper it's written on. When Merkel says soemthing she means it. She is poilte unlike the Schultz or the Juncker but she is utterly cold and ruthless.

We put ourselves into a dreadful position. It was all so damn unnecessary. All at the altar of some right winger's vision of sovereignty. If the last few weeks and the next weeks were in a Hollywood blockbuster, we would have said it was too far fetched. <ok>
 
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Solid_Air 2 said:
part of that was the markets had bet on remain winning so there is a rush to sell off stock ,particularly in those companies particularly vulnerable to Brexit ,as quick as possible as all traders will be trying at same time and the last takes the biggest hit you get MITO's "cliff" graphs. The stock markets are to an extent just a form of gambling with bigger stakes .

You may gather i am quite cynical about the way stock markets behave which often bears little relationship to how the economy or even individual stocks is performing
Click to expand...
That's true to an extent as the market rises last Thursday were due to the markets believing that Remain had won.

However, what has happened since is that specific market areas have taken huge share price falls. The UK banks - obvious, then Building companies, car dealer groups, airlines etc - all sectors that are the first to take a bath when any recession hits, as people stop spending on luxury and high capital cost items.
 
carlthejackal said:
Absolutely incredible set of events since Friday. Like many I am thinking I am surely going to wake up and this has all been a dream. Observers in US and the Far East think that we've collectively taken leave of our senses.

1. We've taken a massive seismic decision on our future and that of several generations without a plan on how to deliver it. Absolutely incredible. And the wise British (mostly English) public went for it. never asked for that plan, only trusted the likes of Boris et al to know what they were doing.

2. The financial collapse was predicted. The stock market and pound may well recover some stability but no sane economist had predicted we would be better off. We may limit the damage and that that's being optimistic. The long economic health is on a knife edge. Will the likes of Nissan move from Sunderland to Belgium? ditto the banks and other financial institutions of the EU countries. When there was a prediction of economic uncertainty the Brexiteers screamed "Scaremongering" when they knew full well it was true.

3. The racism and xenophobic monster. Into the campaign, I said that the likes of Boris, Gove and even Patel were playing with fire when they adopted farage's language. We now have had a increase in attacks against not only the East europeans but also against people from Asia or people born here to asian parents.

All this for something that we had no plan for and now idea on how to proceed. The Uk have declared their negotiating hands. They would like to trade with a single market but would like some control on the free movements of people. The EU and Merkel said NO. So if we are lucky we'll have something in between. People are now realising The Leave mantra of " We buy more BMWs from Germany that they buy cars from us and no way would the Germans impose tarrifs on us" does not look so secure now does it? Not even worth the paper it's written on. When Merkel says soemthing she means it. She is poilte unlike the Schultz or the Juncker but she is utterly cold and ruthless.

We put ourselves into a dreadful position. It was all so damn unnecessary. All at the altar of some right winger's vision of sovereignty. If the last few weeks and the next weeks were in a Hollywood blockbuster, we would have said it was too far fetched. <ok>
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The Welsh, albeit a minority compared to England, also went for Leave, bewilderingly.
They've shot themselves in the foot here. Wales, particularly the western regions, receive a lot of money from the EU. I can't see England, with austerity looming, doing much to help with the losses.
 
Tobes said:
That's true to an extent as the market rises last Thursday were due to the markets believing that Remain had won.

However, what has happened since is that specific market areas have taken huge share price falls. The UK banks - obvious, then Building companies, car dealer groups, airlines etc - all sectors that are the first to take a bath when any recession hits, as people stop spending on luxury and high capital cost items.
Click to expand...
oh i know that hence the "particularly in those companies particularly vulnerable to Brexit" part of my post

the worry now is just a loose comment could cause another panic as the markets are so jittery and the traders need to sell before their rivals which also causes the auto trading computer programs to kick in -though there are nor brakes on them
 
saintKlopp said:
The Welsh, albeit a minority compared to England, also went for Leave, bewilderingly.
They've shot themselves in the foot here. Wales, particularly the western regions, receive a lot of money from the EU. I can't see England, with austerity looming, doing much to help with the losses.
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They were interviewing some Welsh leave voters on the news the other night.

They were asked, why vote out when this region has seen so much EU investment into it? The answer was, well that funding will come from the Govt now, as we won't have to pay the EU <doh>
 
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Solid_Air 2 said:
oh i know that hence the "particularly in those companies particularly vulnerable to Brexit" part of my post

the worry now is just a loose comment could cause another panic as the markets are so jittery and the traders need to sell before their rivals which also causes the auto trading computer programs to kick in -though there are nor brakes on them
Click to expand...

The major fall will come as and when they proceed with actual withdrawal and invoke article 50, in the interim there's bound to be extreme volatility in the markets, and they'll react to new that signals companies either withdrawing planned investment in the UK, or relocating facilities within the EU etc etc. Albeit I think most companies will hold their fire until this debacle draws to an actual conclusion, as there's still a long way to go yet imo. This is not fait accompli yet....
 
DirtyFrank said:
Is anyone here (and happy to divulge) if they are a member of the Labour party?
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What's it to you?

Only joking.

I'm not a member.
I hope it's fairly obvious that I'm a socialist, but I've never been affiliated to the party. (Except perhaps through the back door when I was a union member years ago).
Socialism to me means I advocate a governmental policy that seeks to do the best for all of its people, not just the favoured few.
Labour comes closer to that ideal than any other, but is still part of the political game-playing that I consider to be against the principles of inclusiveness.
 
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Tobes said:
They were interviewing some Welsh leave voters on the news the other night.

They were asked, why vote out when this region has seen so much EU investment into it? The answer was, well that funding will come from the Govt now, as we won't have to pay the EU <doh>
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Feel like you're going round in circles, don't you? :headbang::headbang::headbang:
 
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no its not bobby.... Its guys making profits on our mistakes. they bet its going down. they bet its going up and all 4 days we've seen guys having a great time.
 
The brexit scenario for us is different to norway

why?

norway never had a veto on stuff, norway didn't have a key financial capital within the EU which is going to be decimated.

Noways could not decide to join. their choice. so they pay for access to the market. and sit and benefit form that trade. which is good for them

We are in for 2 more years then we are out... wen we are out we lose veto and influence on european policy. WE will lose that financial capital... we will have to pay for access (thus no savings for loss of influence) we will have to accept free movement
 
saintKlopp said:
As I've said before, I'm no economist, but what you've said here seems like common sense to me. Nothing much is actually happening at the moment politically so the money markets are likely to stabilise for a while. Whenever there's anything going on then they'll respond to it again.
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yes but at least its not a crash now.
 
Tobes said:
They were interviewing some Welsh leave voters on the news the other night.

They were asked, why vote out when this region has seen so much EU investment into it? The answer was, well that funding will come from the Govt now, as we won't have to pay the EU <doh>
Click to expand...
My town has a noticeboard on Facebook. I hardly ever look at it, but yesterday I was searching for some roadwork information and I came across an interesting exchange.
Someone said congratulations to the Welsh for being the last British team in the Euros. A reply came up "Wales are not British!" (sic).
It then took about 7 or 8 posts before someone advised the lady of the geographical nature of these islands, and she never actually responded.
Even then, the person who put her right still seemed to think that the Celts have somehow been here for ever, and didn't realise that they too are (earlier) immigrants from the continent.
I didn't contribute- I have to live with these people. :)
 
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EU member countries cannot afford if Britain succeeds in their move out of the EU. Certainly, that is the
end of EU itself. They are going to do everything to frusturate Britain.Nigel Farage was mocking them yesterday.
 
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