@Diego and @BobbyD serious question for you... 'the common market' requires any country to have freedom of movement of people as one of its conditions. If the Tory government negotiate our exit in such a way that we can remain inthe common market, would you be happy to accept the freedom of movement of people as part of that condition?
Yep, never had a problem with the freedom of movement. My biggest gripe is the move towards federalism and becoming a small part of a very shaky whole. If I wasn't convinced the whole thing will come crashing down within a few years I would be more than happy to remain, as it is I just think we would be getting a head start on rebuilding before the rest.
No problem with freedom of movement. When you boil it down, why should 1 person have more rights to a job than someone else, just because they were born in this country? What next, preferential treatment if you were born in that town? We need migrants doing jobs over here because a lot of British people believe they have too much self respect to do some of the "more demeaning" jobs. The only thing ****ed up, is people being able to come here, do **** all and be able to claim benefits or housing etc. Although, just as bad is British people doing **** all and also claiming benefits. All the talk about the extra money going into NHS or building more houses etc, wouldn't be a problem if we stopped paying out **** load of benefits to people who abuse the system. Get a job? Why bother when I can have 4 kids, get a 5 bedroom home and earn 40k a year to do nothing? Cushy.
And what about the extra burden on public services such as hospitals, schools? Or the impact on our national/cultural identity (btw I'm not going down the racist route, that would be crass, just genuinely gauging opinion from Outers on this)
Only the opportunity to rock up here and become a benefits sponger ended in 2013, when Cameron did that deal with the EU EU immigrants are entitled to nothing for 3 months. After 3 months if they've not found work they can claim JSA and child benefit - but not housing benefit - for 3 months After those 3 months the benefits stop - they can only claim further benefits, if they can prove they have a realistic chance of imminent employment I.e.a job offer. EU economic immigrants in the UK provide a net treasury gain, not a net cost. This is where public perception is completely pissed. As the Tory rags have created a perception that these economic migrants are engulfing the system and bleeding it dry. They aren't. Shame they don't pay as much attention to the massive tax evasion by corporate and individuals the sum of which completely dwarfs the entire welfare budget for the populous. Then again, given they're all owned by tax evading Billionaires, most of whom live in tax havens that the EU have their sights on, it's hardly a shocker.
I do worry about the extra burden on services and infrastructure but feel with the right planning we could ease the problems. What is our national/cultural identity? we have been a conglomerate of cultures for hundreds of years and I don't see that changing any time soon. I always use the Chinese (sorry @BobbyD) as an example of cultures mixing, they come to Britain and maintain the parts of their culture that are important to them yet go un-noticed because they also accept and adopt much of the "British" culture. I could use many other people that come here, unfortunately there is one culture who have sections that demand we adopt their way (and this is where the racist screams come)....Muslims I am sorry if people think this of me because I am not targeting a whole religion (or race as some people think of them ), just the fact that a high proportion has a major problem with our (at this point I will change the term) life style. You can try to make people feel as welcome as you want, if they don't want or try to meet you half way they will never be settled or happy.
Some of the poor ****ers that genuinely want legit work can't find it, so they end up 10 to a small room working for slave wages on a cash in hand basis and have to pay that to the **** of a landlord that money for rent and get their food from a foodbank, they can't even afford a ticket back to their country of origin.
A lot of those cases are **** all to do with the EU though. We're hearing a lot more truths now from Brexit re their immigration plans (or lack of), but how will Brexit help non-EU migration, legal and illegal? Answer - sweet ....
In a round about way its got to do with the EU, EU citizens are allowed to come here, but they face the problems tobes pointed out, so they have to survive until they are entitled to benefits, if there's no legit work there will always be a slimey ****er to make money out of their plight like I pointed out. Brexit out was based on lies, the culprits have admitted it, the £350m a week for the NHS, the immigration issue etc were and are myths, on that basis their should be another referendum. If not throw Boris, Farage and the rest of their motley crew into the tower of London and lash the key into the Thames.
This has always been the problem. The real drain on the wealth of this country, and the rest of the world, is the fact that 5% of the population hoover up 95% of its wealth and resources, and too many of them don't pay their taxes. The media, most of whom are of course, owned by members of the 5%, continually offer other scapegoats for our ills. Throughout my lifetime it's variously been Pakistanis, unmarried mothers, benefit scroungers and now EU immigrants, or any other convenient targets unable to stand up for themselves adequately. The idiot, mean-spirited, lynch mob public fall for this every time and join in the demonisation of whichever group is nasty flavour of the month, and the super rich laugh all the way to the offshore bank. We only have to see how readily people have decided to stereotype one group or another in this debate, even down to some of the sore losers pigeon-holing certain demographic splits in order to blame one group for the defeat that we all must share. So we fight amongst ourselves over the scraps whilst the real problem look on, stirring the **** occasionally to keep it bubbling nicely. Divide and conquer - works every time.
In @ the ten years since they've been coming here I've not met a bad Pole, or one without a job (and yes, they do come here to York too). I don't want to oversimplify or Disneyfy it, but, like the Chinese that Diego referred to further up the thread, they simply don't, in my experience, come here for handouts. And when people then retort that our public services are further stretched the answer is that public services such as health, education and transport have not grown exponentially with the population. Ah, but why grow our population, says Nigel with his 75m apocalypse? Well, the economy needs to grow year on year to fund future debts, such as paying for Wayne and Waynetta's benefits and an ever-burgeoning pension segment of society. And there's the ****ing point, Lillywhite Brexit fantasists, how are you going to keep Slob England in it's beer and pizza and pay for Baby Boomers' pension and NHS demands and expectations?
