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http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8112/8532533146_dd91fce7f4_o.gif

Second movement clearly visible, as is the high studs up nature of the challenge. The Mancs have a thread about it now <ok>

Well Chico was sent off for a high-footed kick vs Sunderland I believe http://www.totalfootballmadness.com/2012/09/02/swansea-city-2-2-sunderland-highlights/

Laudrup subsequently said he and Chico would have to adapt to the regulations, because he believed such a challenge would be yellow. They were told any appeal would be dismissed out of hand, because of the regulations. It's all there in a .0021 second google search...
 
Gandalf said:
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8112/8532533146_dd91fce7f4_o.gif

Second movement clearly visible, as is the high studs up nature of the challenge. The Mancs have a thread about it now <ok>

Well Chico was sent off for a high-footed kick vs Sunderland I believe http://www.totalfootballmadness.com/2012/09/02/swansea-city-2-2-sunderland-highlights/

Laudrup subsequently said he and Chico would have to adapt to the regulations, because he believed such a challenge would be yellow. They were told any appeal would be dismissed out of hand, because of the regulations. It's all there in a .0021 second google search...
Click to expand...

Second movement is clearly him moving his leg round so he lands on his feet.
 
Agent Bruce said:
Going to the game next Thursday G?
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Is that Anzi at home? I dunno. DT is more bothered about it than me at the moment, and she's been booking all our Europa tickets this year. We're both pretty busy, so it might just be a radio job.

I didn't even go vs Southampton, because I had a 4hr driving lesson booked, so DT took her Dad... I didn't want to know the score or anything, and just hoped to pretend the game didn't happen in truth, but the git of a driving instructor made me drive by the stadium while the game was on and then gave me updates every second from his sky app <wah>. Passed my test last week though, so now I suppose I can line up some away matches when I'm freer!

I take it you'll be going AB?
 
Gandalf said:
Is that Anzi at home? I dunno. DT is more bothered about it than me at the moment, and she's been booking all our Europa tickets this year. We're both pretty busy, so it might just be a radio job.

I didn't even go vs Southampton, because I had a 4hr driving lesson booked, so DT took her Dad... I didn't want to know the score or anything, and just hoped to pretend the game didn't happen in truth, but the git of a driving instructor made me drive by the stadium while the game was on and then gave me updates every second from his sky app <wah>. Passed my test last week though, so now I suppose I can line up some away matches when I'm freer!

I take it you'll be going AB?
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Yes, I'll be going. Hope we're going to try and progress all the way. Used to drive to away games but it can be a real headache trying to get parked and started using the supporters coaches ages ago.


Congrats on passing the driving test. <ok>
 
Agent Bruce said:
Yes, I'll be going. Hope we're going to try and progress all the way. Used to drive to away games but it can be a real headache trying to get parked and started using the supporters coaches ages ago.


Congrats on passing the driving test. <ok>
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It would be nice, but the drop still troubles me at present and I can't really enjoy our other exploits <wah>. I'm glad we're playing some nicer stuff now though, gives me some faith again.

Thanks AB... Although the amount of coverage bad drivers get on our occasional "room 101" threads is enough to put anyone off taking to the roads, at 23 and being a certified maniac I thought it was about time I got out there and cut up some arse anyway!

I only got two lesser infractions too... I wonder how many minors Jimmy Saville had on his test... <whistle>
 
Arfa's Left Foot said:
Second movement is clearly him moving his leg round so he lands on his feet.
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In Gandalfs world its a red card, but in a normal world the ref is on drugs. Chico's is a totally different challenge all together he knew what he was doing to hurt him, if he was facing away from him and then swung round and foot high up trying to clear the ball around his face and kicked him without knowing it would of been a yellow at most.

That video is no good for this case boyo.
 
Darlo_Geordie said:
In Gandalfs world its a red card, but in a normal world the ref is on drugs. Chico's is a totally different challenge all together he knew what he was doing to hurt him, if he was facing away from him and then swung round and foot high up trying to clear the ball around his face and kicked him without knowing it would of been a yellow at most.

That video is no good for this case boyo.
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You do realise that "normal" isn't some objectively defined sanity, right? It's a subjective construction formed from culture and fashionable perspective. If I'm holding an unfashionable viewpoint, it doesn't make it wrong... As it happens, more than a few support my conclusion, if not vocally on Not606.

Anyway, if you "normal people" want to ignore the clear second kicking motion, highlighted in the gif, Fifa's laws still allow for Nani to be sent off;

"A player is guilty of serious foul play if he uses excessive force or brutality against an opponent when challenging for the ball when it is in play. Excessive force means that the player has far exceeded the necessary use of force and is in danger of injuring his opponent."

Nani went full pelt into someone, with a raised foot and studs up. Excessive force, check.
In danger of injuring his opponent, check.

Also, it's bull to suggest Nani didn't know Arbeloa was anywhere near him. Where else is the RB going to be? Even if he keeps his eyes on the ball the entirety of the way (not just the 1 second prior to contact shown on replays), surely he's endangering other players by not being conscious of their presence? If I'm driving in my car and swerve into a different lane causing an accident... Should I not be held responsible for not looking in my mirrors? It was an accident, right?

If Lee Cattermole does that to Papiss Cisse, or Stevie G did it to Robin Van Persie, the reaction would definitely be different.
 
Gandalf said:
You do realise that "normal" isn't some objectively defined sanity, right? It's a subjective construction formed from culture and fashionable perspective. If I'm holding an unfashionable viewpoint, it doesn't make it wrong... As it happens, more than a few support my conclusion, if not vocally on Not606.

Anyway, if you "normal people" want to ignore the clear second kicking motion, highlighted in the gif, Fifa's laws still allow for Nani to be sent off;

"A player is guilty of serious foul play if he uses excessive force or brutality against an opponent when challenging for the ball when it is in play. Excessive force means that the player has far exceeded the necessary use of force and is in danger of injuring his opponent."

Nani went full pelt into someone, with a raised foot and studs up. Excessive force, check.
In danger of injuring his opponent, check.

Also, it's bull to suggest Nani didn't know Arbeloa was anywhere near him. Where else is the RB going to be? Even if he keeps his eyes on the ball the entirety of the way (not just the 1 second prior to contact shown on replays), surely he's endangering other players by not being conscious of their presence? If I'm driving in my car and swerve into a different lane causing an accident... Should I not be held responsible for not looking in my mirrors? It was an accident, right?

If Lee Cattermole does that to Papiss Cisse, or Stevie G did it to Robin Van Persie, the reaction would definitely be different.
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Catts wouldn't get the chance. He'd see red under thirty seconds for sneezing.

Anyway, personally if I was the ref, I would have given a yellow. But I can fully understand why others say it was a red.
 
Indestructible said:
Catts wouldn't get the chance. He'd see red under thirty seconds for sneezing.

Anyway, personally if I was the ref, I would have given a yellow. But I can fully understand why others say it was a red.
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Me as well. I can totally see why others say it's a red.

Personally, I think it's totally a red. The WC Nigel De Jong kungfu kick deserved to be red as well.
You might then claim these two tackles were different.

The defence for Nani is that he was always looking at the ball and was only trying to play the ball.
Then in that case there would be no penalty kicks ever, since all defenders were only trying to play the ball too when they bring players down.

My point is simple. Regardless of whether Nani meant only to control the ball or to bury Arbeloa(of which I am sure was never on his mind), the fact remains that Nani did in fact fly across the field and deliver full-blooded studs-in challenge into Arbeloa.

The minimum is a yellow, but a yellow definitely feels too lenient for me, and only the likes of Howard Webb would consistently dish out that kind of lenient yellows.

The deciding factor for me that makes it a red is the dangerousness of the challenge. Seriously can you imagine Arbeloa going head-first into the ball like Ba did? Or even a standing player would have gotten a few broken bones in his chest.

It's a clumsy challenge, and worthy of a red, because Nani was only looking at the ball, and never realised that a player was there. If his defence is that he should be only looking at the ball, then I would rather Newcastle field a team of 11 bulldozers who just attack the ball at any given situation as they'd just take out all the players who challenge the balls with them.
 
Indestructible said:
I don't thonk this could compared to de Jong on Alonso.
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Now , I don't see why not.

De Jong was going for the ball and didn't "see" Alonso....check
Nani on Arbeloa....check

Kungfu kick flying laterally at fast speed....check

Catches opponent above the waist, or even the stomach region with lower limbs....check

Why can't it be compared? Both are similar dangerous tackles where the player thought he "went for the ball" but as he did so, took the player out.
The only difference here is that Howard Webb being the tool that he is, only gave De Jong a yellow , whereas the Turkish ref gave Nani a red. I wouldn't have thought it an absolute travesty had it been a yellow for Nani, and I can see why a red was given for the danger of the challenge...

Hell, we've seen even much softer reds given before on our players (Tiote comes to mind, also as Mourinho said the Pepe red card against Barca). Had this been any other team not named Manchester United that had gone out through such a red, there would not have been such a major talking point.

I've provided a youtube link to anyone who needs to rewatch the Nigel De Jong tackle to confirm anything.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeaON2fLeno
 
I say it was a red, deliberate or not, (I don't think it was) it was dangerous, I dread to think how Nani above all others would have behaved had he been on the receiving end.
We've had to endure harsh decisions ourselves, I'm thinking more Coloccini's red against Liverpool.

I think there will forever be disagreement on this, Dermott Gallagher has said emphatically it wasn't a red, but the referee wasn't English, and petty though I may seem, I don't recall him ever declaring an English ref to have made a controversially bad decision, he may have, but I've not seen it, he's usually more diplomatic.
The behaviour of the Man Utd team when the game ended was worrying, I'm pleased Rio Ferdinand is coming to the end of his career, he's out of control!
 
LTF said:
I say it was a red, deliberate or not, (I don't think it was) it was dangerous, I dread to think how Nani above all others would have behaved had he been on the receiving end.
We've had to endure harsh decisions ourselves, I'm thinking more Coloccini's red against Liverpool.

I think there will forever be disagreement on this, Dermott Gallagher has said emphatically it wasn't a red, but the referee wasn't English, and petty though I may seem, I don't recall him ever declaring an English ref to have made a controversially bad decision, he may have, but I've not seen it, he's usually more diplomatic.
The behaviour of the Man Utd team when the game ended was worrying, I'm pleased Rio Ferdinand is coming to the end of his career, he's out of control!
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I agree, the behaviour Man Utd players and staff exhibited after the game is deplorable, I'm glad Uefa are taking action. Being sulky, childish whiners doesn't really seem to equate with Sir Alex's sides historically, or the man himself, yet that's what I'd say of the carry-on after the final whistle. "Distraught"? Who isn't when you lose a match?

I find it highly amusing the BBC are talking to ex-Man Utd players and English refs, because both are utterly biased, and more hilarious still Man Utd fans are citing these refs as bastions of refereeing conduct, when most of them froth at the mouth when Ashley Young forlornly quivers his lip during the 18th somersault and the same refs denied them a penalty... English referees are hopeless by and large, isn't that what we've surmised as a nation on these forums? Why are they worth listening to now? Oh yeah, because it serves media agenda to whip up a few Red fanatics into a fury in order to get more hits on websites and more papers sold. Roy Keane's been vilified for the audacity of having an opinion... It's just nuts.

Rationally, I don't think it was the worst decision given over 2 legs, and had Man Utd defended better for the 10 minutes afterwards, I doubt it would have been an issue.
 
I'm awaiting to see how Celtic fare in their next round, I think Ray Charles would have been a better ref than the ref they had in their last leg.
It was unbelievable what Juventus got away with, the furore died down very quickly though, the media quickly lost interest, Neil Lennon wasn't distraught, and the team didn't look as though they were about to attack the officials!
 
abc CissesCurriedGoat abc said:
Now , I don't see why not.

De Jong was going for the ball and didn't "see" Alonso....check
Nani on Arbeloa....check

Kungfu kick flying laterally at fast speed....check

Catches opponent above the waist, or even the stomach region with lower limbs....check

Why can't it be compared? Both are similar dangerous tackles where the player thought he "went for the ball" but as he did so, took the player out.
The only difference here is that Howard Webb being the tool that he is, only gave De Jong a yellow , whereas the Turkish ref gave Nani a red. I wouldn't have thought it an absolute travesty had it been a yellow for Nani, and I can see why a red was given for the danger of the challenge...

Hell, we've seen even much softer reds given before on our players (Tiote comes to mind, also as Mourinho said the Pepe red card against Barca). Had this been any other team not named Manchester United that had gone out through such a red, there would not have been such a major talking point.

I've provided a youtube link to anyone who needs to rewatch the Nigel De Jong tackle to confirm anything.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeaON2fLeno
Click to expand...

Do you even believe what you've just said?!?!

de Jong was facing Alonso and knew he would get no where near the ball. The clip you have provided shows as much, so thanks for that <cheers>.
 
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