Is Sunderland a better club than Newcastle …

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Smug in Boots

Smug in Boots

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Jan 27, 2011
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Upper Largo Scotland
… and is it now permissible to ask the question?

It was posed quite often before the season started and mainly laughed off by many including, naturally, the Mags.

However with the advent of PSR, or whatever it’s now called, it’s becoming more difficult to simply assume a club, with more money, is better than the next. It’s quite possible that Sunderland will have more ‘disposable income’ this window or, if not, spend it more wisely. If you’re basing your opinion on such things as, current league position, European football, squad value, club structure, etc, it may well be Sunderland are better as things stand.

Of course there are things like ground capacity, international reputation, latest trophy, etc, but they’re either less tangible or difficult to replicate. Sunderland have other advantages such as owing their stadium with the ability to extend, better training facilities, clearer ownership and management, etc.

So my question is, are Newcastle currently the bigger/better club and will that be proven in the forthcoming season. If not how can Sunderland maintain their current superiority or will it inevitably lapse?
 
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Smug in Boots said:
… and is it now permissible to ask the question?

It was posed quite often before the season started and mainly laughed off by many including, naturally, the Mags.

However with the advent of PSR, or whatever it’s now called, it’s becoming more difficult to simply assume a club, with more money, is better than the next. It’s quite possible that Sunderland will have more ‘disposable income’ this window or, if not, spend it more wisely. If you’re basing your opinion on such things as, current league position, European football, squad value, club structure, etc, it may well be Sunderland are better as things stand.

Of course there are things like ground capacity, international reputation, latest trophy, etc, but they’re either less tangible or difficult to replicate. Sunderland have other advantages such as owing their stadium with the ability to extend, better training facilities, clearer ownership and management, etc.

So my question is, are Newcastle currently the bigger/better club and will that be proven in the forthcoming season. If not how can Sunderland maintain their current superiority or will it inevitably lapse?
Click to expand...
Good observations Smug lad, I'd like to see where we are at the end of the second "KLD wants it all" Five Year Plan. Year One was achieved this past season.

I cannot wait to see what we do over the next two summer transfer windows with £200m (before sales) to spend.

Remember also, Xhaka signed up to a 10 year vision.

Hhhaaa'wwwwaaaaayyyyyy the Lad's
 
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Smug in Boots said:
… and is it now permissible to ask the question?

It was posed quite often before the season started and mainly laughed off by many including, naturally, the Mags.

However with the advent of PSR, or whatever it’s now called, it’s becoming more difficult to simply assume a club, with more money, is better than the next. It’s quite possible that Sunderland will have more ‘disposable income’ this window or, if not, spend it more wisely. If you’re basing your opinion on such things as, current league position, European football, squad value, club structure, etc, it may well be Sunderland are better as things stand.

Of course there are things like ground capacity, international reputation, latest trophy, etc, but they’re either less tangible or difficult to replicate. Sunderland have other advantages such as owing their stadium with the ability to extend, better training facilities, clearer ownership and management, etc.

So my question is, are Newcastle currently the bigger/better club and will that be proven in the forthcoming season. If not how can Sunderland maintain their current superiority or will it inevitably lapse?
Click to expand...
In the eyes of Mags fans and the media, they're seen as being the bigger club, probably due to the length of time they've spent in the Premier League and the Keegan era, where they played in the Champions League, but won nothing. The media still holds them in high regard because of their old label as 'The Entertainers'.

They are also seen as being a big club, which is slightly different, and in their case misplaced.

The top and bottom of it is, big clubs win trophies. One trophy win in 70-odd years puts them on a par with Wigan and Wimbledon. Are they big clubs? I think not.

Both Sunderland and Newcastle are not big clubs. They are sleeping giants with big fan bases.

Fans of other clubs certainly look upon Sunderland as the better, more humble club, probably due to the delusions of grandeur displayed by Newcastle fans. Our training facilities and modern ground are the envy of many, including our near neighbours.

Sunderland has an intelligent owner, who so far has worked miracles to get the club where it is in such a short space of time. They also have an innovative manager, who people outside of the fanbase are beginning to admire. Sunderland are a club on the up and if that can be maintained next season, they will start to be spoken of as an established Premier League club with regular European aspirations.

Newcastle, in contrast, appear to be waning. Their training facilities are not as good as Sunderland and their stadium is antiquated. More importantly, their owners have not invested in these areas, as they had promised to do and their enthusiasm for the project is showing signs of subsiding.

As you say Smug, this season could be pivotal for both clubs and we'll see where both clubs are after that.
 
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Bank of England 2 said:
In the eyes of Mags fans and the media, they're seen as being the bigger club, probably due to the length of time they've spent in the Premier League and the Keegan era, where they played in the Champions League, but won nothing. The media still holds them in high regard because of their old label as 'The Entertainers'.

They are also seen as being a big club, which is slightly different, and in their case misplaced.

The top and bottom of it is, big clubs win trophies. One trophy win in 70-odd years puts them on a par with Wigan and Wimbledon. Are they big clubs? I think not.

Both Sunderland and Newcastle are not big clubs. They are sleeping giants with big fan bases.

Fans of other clubs certainly look upon Sunderland as the better, more humble club, probably due to the delusions of grandeur displayed by Newcastle fans. Our training facilities and modern ground are the envy of many, including our near neighbours.

Sunderland has an intelligent owner, who so far has worked miracles to get the club where it is in such a short space of time. They also have an innovative manager, who people outside of the fanbase are beginning to admire. Sunderland are a club on the up and if that can be maintained next season, they will start to be spoken of as an established Premier League club with regular European aspirations.

Newcastle, in contrast, appear to be waning. Their training facilities are not as good as Sunderland and their stadium is antiquated. More importantly, their owners have not invested in these areas, as they had promised to do and their enthusiasm for the project is showing signs of subsiding.

As you say Smug, this season could be pivotal for both clubs and we'll see where both clubs are after that.
Click to expand...

Obviously, due to the last decade, I came to see Newcastle as the bigger club and thought that status would remain due to their owner's wealth. Now I'm not so sure and wonder if there are actual reasons or whether it's just a state of mind. Sunderland, it would seem, can spend big money and attract top players. Another disastrous transfer window and Newcastle could look very 'mid-table' and looking forward to a second season without Europe.

That definitely wasn't in their plans.
 
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Blond Bombshell said:
Good observations Smug lad, I'd like to see where we are at the end of the second "KLD wants it all" Five Year Plan. Year One was achieved this past season.

I cannot wait to see what we do over the next two summer transfer windows with £200m (before sales) to spend.

Remember also, Xhaka signed up to a 10 year vision.

Hhhaaa'wwwwaaaaayyyyyy the Lad's
Click to expand...

I'd love to know what the vision was, why it excited Xhaka so much and where he was going to be in it once he finished playing?

We all assume RLB replacement eventually but he must have been sold some vision for the stuff that has been said and can only imagine how excited we would all be if it excited a pro with no links to the club!
 
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Bank of England 2 said:
In the eyes of Mags fans and the media, they're seen as being the bigger club, probably due to the length of time they've spent in the Premier League and the Keegan era, where they played in the Champions League, but won nothing. The media still holds them in high regard because of their old label as 'The Entertainers'.

They are also seen as being a big club, which is slightly different, and in their case misplaced.

The top and bottom of it is, big clubs win trophies. One trophy win in 70-odd years puts them on a par with Wigan and Wimbledon. Are they big clubs? I think not.

Both Sunderland and Newcastle are not big clubs. They are sleeping giants with big fan bases.

Fans of other clubs certainly look upon Sunderland as the better, more humble club, probably due to the delusions of grandeur displayed by Newcastle fans. Our training facilities and modern ground are the envy of many, including our near neighbours.

Sunderland has an intelligent owner, who so far has worked miracles to get the club where it is in such a short space of time. They also have an innovative manager, who people outside of the fanbase are beginning to admire. Sunderland are a club on the up and if that can be maintained next season, they will start to be spoken of as an established Premier League club with regular European aspirations.

Newcastle, in contrast, appear to be waning. Their training facilities are not as good as Sunderland and their stadium is antiquated. More importantly, their owners have not invested in these areas, as they had promised to do and their enthusiasm for the project is showing signs of subsiding.

As you say Smug, this season could be pivotal for both clubs and we'll see where both clubs are after that.
Click to expand...

But it was going to improve the whole reejin and tha premier were messing with oor mental health blocking the takeover!
 
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ATM

I think we are better ran, and that showed last season,

and we havent been promised that we will be the biggest clerb in the world by 2030

there could be a shift, think isf we win a couple of trophies and stay in the PL for years.

the gap is slowly closing

just took us 4 years in L1, to reach lowest pits of the well for us to get on track
 
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Hannah1989 said:
ATM

I think we are better ran, and that showed last season,

and we havent been promised that we will be the biggest clerb in the world by 2030

there could be a shift, think isf we win a couple of trophies and stay in the PL for years.

the gap is slowly closing

just took us 4 years in L1, to reach lowest pits of the well for us to get on track
Click to expand...
Had on thur a minute pet... did a mention Nuwcastle being tha biggest clerb? Doh
 
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We are a club.
We are all in it together working towards the same aims. Yeah, we are not going to agree on everything but that's life.
I'm not sure what they are.
A plaything, a Political device, I really don't know.
All they wanted was their club back and yet its even further away..As the old saying goes " be careful what you wish for, as one day you might just get it."
 
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Smug in Boots said:
… and is it now permissible to ask the question?

It was posed quite often before the season started and mainly laughed off by many including, naturally, the Mags.

However with the advent of PSR, or whatever it’s now called, it’s becoming more difficult to simply assume a club, with more money, is better than the next. It’s quite possible that Sunderland will have more ‘disposable income’ this window or, if not, spend it more wisely. If you’re basing your opinion on such things as, current league position, European football, squad value, club structure, etc, it may well be Sunderland are better as things stand.

Of course there are things like ground capacity, international reputation, latest trophy, etc, but they’re either less tangible or difficult to replicate. Sunderland have other advantages such as owing their stadium with the ability to extend, better training facilities, clearer ownership and management, etc.

So my question is, are Newcastle currently the bigger/better club and will that be proven in the forthcoming season. If not how can Sunderland maintain their current superiority or will it inevitably lapse?
Click to expand...
It's a good question.

In size, maybe the figure that people outside the region would use would be financial turnover. That lot turned over around £300m in a non UCL season, so against ours of £200m+ they are significantly ahead. Their next accounts will have a UCL element so will be bigger still.

It's a hard gap to bridge , and it doesn't mean everything, and we are heading upwards, but it's a gap. It's probably what a lot would use, though there are many other factors.

But as for "better"? I'd say there was a much, much bigger gap. And it's the other way.

What are they for? Who knows? What sort of football club have "unknown" and invisible owners? They are no longer a club, in the accepted sense of the word. Their supporters are angry at a lot of things, but this is at the heart of it.

They have lost their club, and the team is now a representative of an opportunistic Saudi state, using a name as a bit of shower gel. I'd be angry too, especially if I had welcomed them so slavishly.

We know what we are. We know where we've been, and we know how the connection between us and the players and even the owners has been strengthened over a number of years now.

It's rock solid, openly visible and is the crucial stuff of what a club is supposed to be. The type of thing that will last.

If that lot can be described as bigger, using a financial metric, they will now never be better. They given up in that
 
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Football wise, too early to say.
In every other way, definitely.
My claim to fame, if I have one, is having known Andrew Friend (RIP) and knowing his partner Jonathan Morrell. Some of you will know that at one time or another they were both presenters/reporters on Tyne Tees telly. Both of them said that Sunderland were by far the classier club of the two in the dealings they had with them. Much more family oriented and community friendly and just nice. They disliked NUFC for their lack of class and general feeling of superiority.
 
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Without question we are a better club, top to bottom.

I grudgingly accept they are marginally bigger due to their more global presence owing to being in the PL at start of boom and multiple European seasons, but we are years ahead of them in every aspect of how the club is ran, the direction, the strategy and public perceptions.

If we talking facilities and framework they are actually one of the worst in league for it, indeed championship clubs including Boro are far better set off the park.

They do, unquestionably have a loyal and passionate fan base, the majority ‘just like us’ but a really vocal section that are utterly clueless and brainless that’s driven most of the country to dislike them.

Our platform is here now. We have world class facilities, ambitious, driven and strategic ownership, and low debt and rapidly rising revenues.

We are in ****ing great shape and we just scratching the lid of the pie before we hit the meat.
 
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I never got the trophies = big club argument personally. Wimbledon winning the FA Cup didn't make them big. Us winning nowt for 50 years didn't make us small. Nor did it them up the road.
 
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Firstly,let's make no mistake about it,historically and currently,these are two of England's great clubs.
My take on this is that,as a young lad in the early 60's growing up in Consett,Newcastle were always perceived as the "bigger "club,probably because of the success they had in the mid 50's with Milburn,Robledo brothers etc. Since then,our collective form has been up and down,the odd success here and there,but never anything that lasted for very long.
Newcastle have reaped the advantage, over time and the expansion of the City,of being a one-club city,and certainly found themselves in the box seats post 1992,with their Keegan era set-up,the Halls, and Sky TV's management wholly obvious,and shameful bias. They got lucky then,which still spills into media coverage today.
However, as the two of us have been intertwined with fleeting success and failure, we at Sunderland have been so fortunate to have a visionary called Sir Bob Murray,who created the major stepping stone for us to compete at the top level, and,after years of disappointment, we now have a new,young visionary looking to improve us and take us forward. Newcastle,on the other hand,appear to be stalled,after years of treading water and one trophy, seem almost a little bit lost,in who they are and where to go next.
I suppose the major difference at the moment is that we have committed leadership,management and players with whom us fans are totally bonding for the now and the future........ and they don't.
 
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YES, in my eyes always have been, to many of the young generation that might seem biased and wrong but like many on this forum I have followed SAFC and football in general throughout the 60’s, 70’s,80’s etc and have personally witnessed the apathy and disinterest in nufc in the north east ESPECIALLY IN DURHAM at first hand,we always had the better history and achievements and bigger ground
BUT the main factor behind their rise and our poorer nationwide outlook is unfortunately Newcastle is the HOME of the north east MEDIA and we can’t compete with the coverage and love in they receive, so when the likes of keegan and robson turn up you get the fanfare x 10 , but deep down I know what I’ve witnessed in the past and any time a mag wants to talk about all things football in the north east I’m VERY confident in putting them straight , but to be honest the conversation doesn’t get very far when I ask “do you attend games “
So yes taking everything into account we are the biggest club….and they sold their souls
 
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