According to the papers, who is to blame for spreading these toxic conspiracy theories about Kate?
You must log in or register to see images
Off Topic Politics Thread
- Thread starter ChilcoSaint
- Start date
-
Please bear with us on the new site integration and fixing any known bugs over the coming days. If you can not log in please try resetting your password and check your spam box. If you have tried these steps and are still struggling email [email protected] with your username/registered email address
-
Osvaldorama, post: 17433911, member: 1013464"]
The very idea that humans are individuals in their own right, that basically forms our justice system is essentially a Christian idea.
Really? Which particular bit would that be. Christianity is all about justice in the next world, and do as you're ****ing told in this one.
Have you forgotten all those monarchs who used Divine right as their way to maintain power? Pretty sure that a million serfs under those regimes weren't burdened with much individual freedom. It's a myth that religion brings individual freedom, and Christianity is no different.
Before Christianity, humans were seen as property and slaves.
Fairly sure that the practice of slavery was carried out for at least 1800 years after jesus was reported to be around. And Christians industrialised the process
Organised religion had a big part to play in the foundation of the legal system, the justice system, capitalism and many other things which the country is built upon.
Did it? Not for the good of the people though until very recently. Justice was (and still is to some extent) exactly what the ruling classes want it to be, and different people get different justice.
Capitalism has been around since the invention of money, so no credit there to any religions, other than the fact that religion is tied in with governmental power structures
I guess yes, I agree, what I am saying is that religion was a useful tool for social control and aligning people’s world views for a common good.
Look at all the cathedrals, paintings and art that has been produced in the name of religion over the years.
I agree, there's lots of fantastic human endeavor that's happened because of religions. The fact is, the Christian church branches are generally fabulously wealthy, so they tended to be the clients with cash to spend. I'd question how they become so wealthy whilst appreciating what they commissioned.
Monuments and art as you say are an amazing human thing, and we as a species still do that, but it's not because of religion any more, or certainly not as much. Art can come from any kind of spiritualism, and that doesn't need a religion to exist
I also strongly think that a move away from spirituality has caused negative effects in society. As I said. It seems to have left a void in people that is being filled with other more toxic ideas.
Religion is and always has been a tool for controlling the masses. We slipped that yoke and rule of law took over. I'd sooner keep the illusion of freedom I have now than be under orders from God to behave in a certain way. Christianity stifled people's freedom, stifled scientific development and persecuted and oppressed women for centuries. You can keep that spirituality.
Like it or not, it has been a truly centralising force for hundreds of years. Decentralisation of communities has an impact on the country.
All tied in with nation state government. What it generally does is polarise people and cause conflict between nations.
I’m not saying it is all positive, by any means. It’s caused many problems too as you rightly suggest. But atheism leaves a spiritual void in people imo.
I'm not saying it's all bad Os, true belief or spiritualism of some kind is a great comfort for millions. I'm glad those that have it find it a comfort but it's not for me. I believe in people and what people can achieve, and I get comfort from good people and great achievements. I don't think that's a void, I think I filled it with sonething tangible, rather than faith in a God.
I do wish I was religious in some ways. It must be nice to have faith in something. But I personally just can’t accept that a man was brought back from the dead, no matter how much I try
I agree here as well
The very idea that humans are individuals in their own right, that basically forms our justice system is essentially a Christian idea.
Really? Which particular bit would that be. Christianity is all about justice in the next world, and do as you're ****ing told in this one.
Have you forgotten all those monarchs who used Divine right as their way to maintain power? Pretty sure that a million serfs under those regimes weren't burdened with much individual freedom. It's a myth that religion brings individual freedom, and Christianity is no different.
Before Christianity, humans were seen as property and slaves.
Fairly sure that the practice of slavery was carried out for at least 1800 years after jesus was reported to be around. And Christians industrialised the process
Organised religion had a big part to play in the foundation of the legal system, the justice system, capitalism and many other things which the country is built upon.
Did it? Not for the good of the people though until very recently. Justice was (and still is to some extent) exactly what the ruling classes want it to be, and different people get different justice.
Capitalism has been around since the invention of money, so no credit there to any religions, other than the fact that religion is tied in with governmental power structures
I guess yes, I agree, what I am saying is that religion was a useful tool for social control and aligning people’s world views for a common good.
Look at all the cathedrals, paintings and art that has been produced in the name of religion over the years.
I agree, there's lots of fantastic human endeavor that's happened because of religions. The fact is, the Christian church branches are generally fabulously wealthy, so they tended to be the clients with cash to spend. I'd question how they become so wealthy whilst appreciating what they commissioned.
Monuments and art as you say are an amazing human thing, and we as a species still do that, but it's not because of religion any more, or certainly not as much. Art can come from any kind of spiritualism, and that doesn't need a religion to exist
I also strongly think that a move away from spirituality has caused negative effects in society. As I said. It seems to have left a void in people that is being filled with other more toxic ideas.
Religion is and always has been a tool for controlling the masses. We slipped that yoke and rule of law took over. I'd sooner keep the illusion of freedom I have now than be under orders from God to behave in a certain way. Christianity stifled people's freedom, stifled scientific development and persecuted and oppressed women for centuries. You can keep that spirituality.
Like it or not, it has been a truly centralising force for hundreds of years. Decentralisation of communities has an impact on the country.
All tied in with nation state government. What it generally does is polarise people and cause conflict between nations.
I’m not saying it is all positive, by any means. It’s caused many problems too as you rightly suggest. But atheism leaves a spiritual void in people imo.
I'm not saying it's all bad Os, true belief or spiritualism of some kind is a great comfort for millions. I'm glad those that have it find it a comfort but it's not for me. I believe in people and what people can achieve, and I get comfort from good people and great achievements. I don't think that's a void, I think I filled it with sonething tangible, rather than faith in a God.
I do wish I was religious in some ways. It must be nice to have faith in something. But I personally just can’t accept that a man was brought back from the dead, no matter how much I try
I agree here as well
Last edited:
If there was any basis of historical accuracy in this post it would be a decent theory. As it is, it’s wrong on many levels.
The very idea that humans are individuals in their own right, that basically forms our justice system is essentially a Christian idea.
Before Christianity, humans were seen as property and slaves. Organised religion had a big part to play in the foundation of the legal system, the justice system, capitalism and many other things which the country is built upon. Basically the idea of treating each human as an individual with their own rights stems from Christianity.
I guess yes, I agree, what I am saying is that religion was a useful tool for social control and aligning people’s world views for a common good. Look at all the cathedrals, paintings and art that has been produced in the name of religion over the years.
I also strongly think that a move away from spirituality has caused negative effects in society. As I said. It seems to have left a void in people that is being filled with other more toxic ideas.
Like it or not, it has been a truly centralising force for hundreds of years. Decentralisation of communities has an impact on the country.
I’m not saying it is all positive, by any means. It’s caused many problems too as you rightly suggest. But atheism leaves a spiritual void in people imo.
I do wish I was religious in some ways. It must be nice to have faith in something. But I personally just can’t accept that a man was brought back from the dead, no matter how much I try
As is often the case, there's some truth in what Os is trying to say, but it was rather spoilt by then going in to the "I hate progressives" extreme reaction.
The church did used to provide community for people. Community is hugely important. As faith began to fade those community interactions began to move to the pubs. They became hubs.
The trouble now (in my opinion only) is that now the pubs are beginning to fade, and with social media hubs like Instagram coming to the fore, any sense of community is now held in gyms. That seems to be where young people hang out now. And a gym/Instagram congregation is by its very nature narcissistic. Gyms are becoming more and more focused around 'gains' and how you look, which is then posted for like and appreciation. So it's less a community as such, and far more an inward looking endeavour.
That, long term, is hugely problematic.
The church did used to provide community for people. Community is hugely important. As faith began to fade those community interactions began to move to the pubs. They became hubs.
The trouble now (in my opinion only) is that now the pubs are beginning to fade, and with social media hubs like Instagram coming to the fore, any sense of community is now held in gyms. That seems to be where young people hang out now. And a gym/Instagram congregation is by its very nature narcissistic. Gyms are becoming more and more focused around 'gains' and how you look, which is then posted for like and appreciation. So it's less a community as such, and far more an inward looking endeavour.
That, long term, is hugely problematic.
Before Christianity, humans were seen as property and slaves. Organised religion had a big part to play in the foundation of the legal system, the justice system, capitalism and many other things which the country is built upon. Basically the idea of treating each human as an individual with their own rights stems from Christianity.
Church of England made a fortune from slavery.
Happy Easter all, may the eggs be with you.
You must log in or register to see images
Communities and society in general were cynically broken down by the Thatcherite policies in the 80s (Thatcher even famously said there is no such thing as society) firstly by deliberately decimating UK manufacturing and industry in the early part of the decade and letting over 3 million workers fester on the dole whilst squandering North Sea oil revenues to pay for it and then force them to take any soul destroying job on offer in sweat shops.
Then we had the boom and bust years where "greed is good" policies were promoted and "**** thy neighbour", i'm all right Jack attitudes were encouraged and the country has been changed forever.
One of the biggest of Thatcher's crimes against humanity was councils being banned from using the income from right to buy to build more housing stock resulting in the massive housing crisis of today.
Completely agree that FPTP is completely flawed, but all systems have pros and cons, the pro being the relative stability of the British political system. The benefit to tories under the current system is largely because the left of centre vote is split 3 ways.
Not sure I can agree that the most supported party shouldn't lead the government, regardless of view point... Regardless, the point was that PR has caused a myriad of problems that FPTP does not suffer from. During 2010 coalition talks, people were calling Brown a squatter for acting as PM for a few weeks following the GE. Rutte resigned last summer and nearly a whole year on is still in place, that is completely ludicrous.
I also think that councils wanting to borrow money from central government funds, in order to build social housing, were told that the interest rate would be higher than if they borrowed money for other projects.
FPTP is not fit for purpose never has been.
Not having a government hasn't prevented the Netherlands from functioning as it has done in past post GE extended negotiations. Wilders if far from the popular choice as PM and it's convention not mandatory that the leader of the party with the highest percentage takes the post. Another election may well happen if no coalition can form a government. The Dutch system is in need of change. The Single Transferable Vote is in my opinion and that of the electoral reform society the way to go have a look at how it works.
Posted without any sense of irony. Replace religion with the left wing ideology displayed on here and the same is true.
Every one who describes themselves as socialist all repeat the same dogma from the lefty handbook and don't seem to have any independent thoughts of their own. Or at least if they do think differently they keep it to themselves for fear of a pile on from the hardliners.
The Ten Commandments from the same Old Socialist Testament. No argument allowed.
1. Tell everyone you are a socialist. Only beaten for speed in a conversation by vegans and people from Yorkshire. The announcement is designed to give a sense of social superiority as in "I'm not just a good person but a better person". (Above in red). Underline this by calling yourself progressive.
2. Hate with a vengeance Brexit and Brexiteer racists. Let it go, the vote was almost 8 years ago.
3. Pro Palestine, anti Israel. Not a true socialist if you can't get the basics right.
4. Defend Corbyn, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary insist he was a peacemaker. Same for McDonnell. Claim Abbott to be a hugely respected parliamentarian
.5. Hate the Monarchy.
6. Hate Trump.
7. Harp on about the shame of slavery and the British Empire. To be used at every opportunity to justify national guilt.
8. Deride poppies, Remembrance Sunday and the Armed Forces. Call Remembrance Sunday a celebration of war.
9. Hate the Union Flag and Flag of St George, especially those that fly one, or even worse both, in their garden. Dirty racists the lot of them.
10. Don't tolerate an opposite view. Ideally, anyone who thinks differently should not be allowed to speak (cancel culture) but if they do call them hateful, racist, transphobic, bigot, extreme right wing or any other slur you can think of to shut them up.
Of course it has been fit for purpose what an overly simplistic and sensationalist take. The UK has prospered greatly during the FPTP era.
Your inability to recognise the relative merits of differing systems is bizarre.
PR in any capacity, including STV, will result in coalitions of convenience that will force larger parties to concede to smaller more extreme partners. I'm sure we would all love to experience more frequent DUP-espue bung events and more frequent elections and even more political directional change. Stability is a very underrated political quality at the moment, it would seem.
Okay, I’m a socialist who:Posted without any sense of irony. Replace religion with the left wing ideology displayed on here and the same is true.
Every one who describes themselves as socialist all repeat the same dogma from the lefty handbook and don't seem to have any independent thoughts of their own. Or at least if they do think differently they keep it to themselves for fear of a pile on from the hardliners.
The Ten Commandments from the same Old Socialist Testament. No argument allowed.
1. Tell everyone you are a socialist. Only beaten for speed in a conversation by vegans and people from Yorkshire. The announcement is designed to give a sense of social superiority as in "I'm not just a good person but a better person". (Above in red). Underline this by calling yourself progressive.
2. Hate with a vengeance Brexit and Brexiteer racists. Let it go, the vote was almost 8 years ago.
3. Pro Palestine, anti Israel. Not a true socialist if you can't get the basics right.
4. Defend Corbyn, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary insist he was a peacemaker. Same for McDonnell. Claim Abbott to be a hugely respected parliamentarian
5. Hate the Monarchy.
6. Hate Trump.
7. Harp on about the shame of slavery and the British Empire. To be used at every opportunity to justify national guilt.
8. Deride poppies, Remembrance Sunday and the Armed Forces. Call Remembrance Sunday a celebration of war.
9. Hate the Union Flag and Flag of St George, especially those that fly one, or even worse both, in their garden. Dirty racists the lot of them.
10. Don't tolerate an opposite view. Ideally, anyone who thinks differently should not be allowed to speak (cancel culture) but if they do call them hateful, racist, transphobic, bigot, extreme right wing or any other slur you can think of to shut them up.
1. Never feel the need to wear my politics as a badge.
2. Feel nothing but sympathy for the millions conned into voting for Brexit.
3. Respect the right of Israel and Palestine to exist.
4. Don’t see any point in defending Corbyn, or understand the obsession that the right still have with him.
5. Had a huge respect for the late Queen, but see less to respect with the current monarch or his heir.
6. Hate Trump.
7. Recognise that many of the world’s current problems are a consequence of the exploitation of colonialism. Fail to understand why anyone could be proud of the institution of slavery or of setting one nation above another.
8. As the son of a WWII serviceman and the grandson of a WWI serviceman am proud to wear the poppy and participate every year in remembering the fallen in all wars.
9. Am amused by people who feel the need to display their patriotism by flying flags without any understanding of what a genuine love of one’s country and its people actually means.
10. Get tired of people who have no insight or understanding of how it feels to be born into the wrong body incessantly harping on about them.
Yeah I'm a simplistic sensationalist unable to recognise the relative merits of differing systems and is bizarre in differing from your intellectually challenged argument in favour of FPTP.
This is a surprisingly reasonable list! I disagree with point 4, I think the progressives are the ones who are obsessed with Corbyn and that triggers the right. Sort of chicken and egg but really think the chicken would be the progressives.
Point 10 I agree with wholeheartedly. I don’t believe that biological men should be allowed to compete in women’s sport though. Beyond that I have no real opinion bar the fact that we’re all human beings and every should should be allowed to express themselves.
Also think you’re being slightly harsh on Charles. Many of his passions (religious diversity, climate and slimming down the crown estate) are pretty important and he’s hugely committed to them. I also think he has a profound sense of service , like the Queen.
Osvaldorama, post: 17433911, member: 1013464"]
The very idea that humans are individuals in their own right, that basically forms our justice system is essentially a Christian idea.
Really? Which particular bit would that be. Christianity is all about justice in the next world, and do as you're ****ing told in this one.
Have you forgotten all those monarchs who used Divine right as their way to maintain power? Pretty sure that a million serfs under those regimes weren't burdened with much individual freedom. It's a myth that religion brings individual freedom, and Christianity is no different.
Before Christianity, humans were seen as property and slaves.
Fairly sure that the practice of slavery was carried out for at least 1800 years after jesus was reported to be around. And Christians industrialised the process
Organised religion had a big part to play in the foundation of the legal system, the justice system, capitalism and many other things which the country is built upon.
Did it? Not for the good of the people though until very recently. Justice was (and still is to some extent) exactly what the ruling classes want it to be, and different people get different justice.
Capitalism has been around since the invention of money, so no credit there to any religions, other than the fact that religion is tied in with governmental power structures
I guess yes, I agree, what I am saying is that religion was a useful tool for social control and aligning people’s world views for a common good.
Look at all the cathedrals, paintings and art that has been produced in the name of religion over the years.
I agree, there's lots of fantastic human endeavor that's happened because of religions. The fact is, the Christian church branches are generally fabulously wealthy, so they tended to be the clients with cash to spend. I'd question how they become so wealthy whilst appreciating what they commissioned.
Monuments and art as you say are an amazing human thing, and we as a species still do that, but it's not because of religion any more, or certainly not as much. Art can come from any kind of spiritualism, and that doesn't need a religion to exist
I also strongly think that a move away from spirituality has caused negative effects in society. As I said. It seems to have left a void in people that is being filled with other more toxic ideas.
Religion is and always has been a tool for controlling the masses. We slipped that yoke and rule of law took over. I'd sooner keep the illusion of freedom I have now than be under orders from God to behave in a certain way. Christianity stifled people's freedom, stifled scientific development and persecuted and oppressed women for centuries. You can keep that spirituality.
Like it or not, it has been a truly centralising force for hundreds of years. Decentralisation of communities has an impact on the country.
All tied in with nation state government. What it generally does is polarise people and cause conflict between nations.
I’m not saying it is all positive, by any means. It’s caused many problems too as you rightly suggest. But atheism leaves a spiritual void in people imo.
I'm not saying it's all bad Os, true belief or spiritualism of some kind is a great comfort for millions. I'm glad those that have it find it a comfort but it's not for me. I believe in people and what people can achieve, and I get comfort from good people and great achievements. I don't think that's a void, I think I filled it with sonething tangible, rather than faith in a God.
I do wish I was religious in some ways. It must be nice to have faith in something. But I personally just can’t accept that a man was brought back from the dead, no matter how much I try
I agree here as well
The thing I’m trying to say is, many of the laws and rules in this country rely a lot on the people in the country to be… decent people.
The justice system only works in a high-trust society. To an extent a great country must self-govern and self police. The people within the country must make it socially unacceptable to carry out bad behaviour.
This is what Christian values brought to the western world. ‘Love thy neighbour’, community, hope, etc.
The West has prospered greatly because we formed high-trust societies where we could just sort of trust each other to be alright. Now that is disappearing.
There is nothing pushing people to be good toward each other anymore without the fear of god. (Yes I know that majority of people are good to each other anyway without religion). There are no church services or shared experiences anymore. It used to be everyone went to their local church on Sunday. My grandparents knew the whole village because of religion. Nowadays we are all more isolated and divided.
Happy to be proven wrong on this one, but I maintain that a lack of community and shared values is a real concern going forward.
It also is an antidote to the worst form of government - communism. If everyone is seen as a divine being, the nation state can’t treat them like cattle.
I dunno. A few years ago I used to feel pretty much like you and was vehemently anti-religious.
But the last few years of lockdowns, corruption, inflation, ineffective jabs, censorship, bank accounts being frozen has pushed me to believe that the biggest evils are nation states themselves and not religions.
Last edited:
I find the argument for the supply side in housing predictable but perhaps misplaced given the UK has more dwellings per capita than much of Europe and the USA. Having read recent reports that I find hard to contradict stating "its strange logic is that speculative developers would build homes in order to devalue them: that they would somehow act against their own interests by producing enough surplus homes to bring down the average price of land and housing. That would be surprisingly philanthropic behaviour.[1]" Certainly I do not believe that, unfortunately, those with the greatest need will benefit from new house buildings as luxury apartments, luxury care homes and four bedroom houses are the prioritized builds.
This article is very interesting: https://www.theguardian.com/lifeand...lution-to-uk-housing-crisis#comment-166945673
Similar threads
