Off Topic Politics Thread

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Osvaldorama said:
Apologies, I’ve been away so didn’t respond to this sooner.

This almost proves my point. This sort of selfish, narcissistic thinking has been massively amplified by a lack of religion.

For all the cons of organised religion, there are some huge, huge benefits of it.

One of those is: community. Community and pride in your country and fellow men.

We have lost that completely. This is one of the reasons why I hate progressives. They don’t understand that if you stand for nothing, you fall for anything. The void where pride in your country and religion used to be will be filled up with toxic narratives that make society worse as a whole.

We can certainly argue whether organised religion is an overall net benefit for society. But I believe it’s absolutely definite that the rise of atheism and moving away from spirituality/community is creating a more selfish society and having a negative impact.

There is a growing lack of respect and discipline and i can see it everywhere I look.
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I look at the Irish situation. Religion really doesnt help over there and that's without considering the organised *****philia within the Catholic Church. India also has massive problems with religious rivalry and Nationalism, and don't get me started on Islamic government.
I also don't believe that religion creates community, it's just one factor in why people group together, and in fact is often divisive within communities.
And I certainly don't need to look at some dubious collection of writings from millenia ago to steer my morality.
Everyone can believe what they like as far as I'm concerned, but not when their beliefs infringe on my freedoms. I also think that organised religion has held society back, has caused waves of violence over the years and is currently being wrapped up with Nationalism to justify the actions of the 'righteous'

This country was generally Christian for years because it suits government to be able to use God to control the people, it maintained the social heirarchy and kept people in their designated place.
I say **** that for the future of humanity, and grow up if you actually think that an invisible sky man does sit there watching the world.
And if you don't believe in the invisible sky man, but still tout the religion, then you're a hypocrite and are blatantly using religion for social control.
 
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Schrodinger's Cat said:
I look at the Irish situation. Religion really doesnt help over there and that's without considering the organised *****philia within the Catholic Church. India also has massive problems with religious rivalry and Nationalism, and don't get me started on Islamic government.
I also don't believe that religion creates community, it's just one factor in why people group together, and in fact is often divisive within communities.
And I certainly don't need to look at some dubious collection of writings from millenia ago to steer my morality.
Everyone can believe what they like as far as I'm concerned, but not when their beliefs infringe on my freedoms. I also think that organised religion has held society back, has caused waves of violence over the years and is currently being wrapped up with Nationalism to justify the actions of the 'righteous'

This country was generally Christian for years because it suits government to be able to use God to control the people, it maintained the social heirarchy and kept people in their designated place.
I say **** that for the future of humanity, and grow up if you actually think that an invisible sky man does sit there watching the world.
And if you don't believe in the invisible sky man, but still tout the religion, then you're a hypocrite and are blatantly using religion for social control.
Click to expand...

There is (or should be) a difference between organised religion and a general feeling of just being nice to your fellow man, looking out for each other and avoiding conflict. Someone, over 2000 years ago, believed that we should love one's neighbour, which, incidentally, refers to anyone of any race or colour. However, getting everyone to accept that altruism is, on the whole, beneficial, is usually backed up with ideas that it will help you in the next life. I don't consider myself to be particularly religious, but I try to be thoughtful about other people, and to improve their existence, because, well, it just seems the right thing to do. Maybe it's upbringing, maybe it's a realisation that getting on with other people is a good way of living. Apart from Skates, obviously.
 
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Osvaldorama said:
Apologies, I’ve been away so didn’t respond to this sooner.

This almost proves my point. This sort of selfish, narcissistic thinking has been massively amplified by a lack of religion.

For all the cons of organised religion, there are some huge, huge benefits of it.

One of those is: community. Community and pride in your country and fellow men.

We have lost that completely. This is one of the reasons why I hate progressives. They don’t understand that if you stand for nothing, you fall for anything. The void where pride in your country and religion used to be will be filled up with toxic narratives that make society worse as a whole.

We can certainly argue whether organised religion is an overall net benefit for society. But I believe it’s absolutely definite that the rise of atheism and moving away from spirituality/community is creating a more selfish society and having a negative impact.

There is a growing lack of respect and discipline and i can see it everywhere I look.
Click to expand...
It would appear that you really can’t see the harm that religion is doing in the world. Not because it is or isn’t true but because it dictates to its followers that they must follow the word of their god and not any one else’s, no argument allowed
Organised religion is man-made and man-controlled not god-made

Progressives stand for nothing? Have no pride in their country? Are destroying community and creating a more selfish society?

Who are these people? Only your more extreme vision of who these ‘progressives’ are, when in fact it is a broad church where the majority are more likely to stand for a lot, contribute to community, want a fairer and less selfish society and have pride in their country, without the rose tinted glasses, and be ashamed of what is being done to it by a selfish government

Thatcher started the move to a more selfish society. Was she a progressive?

Do I need religion to have morals? No
Do my atheistic/agnostic friends? No
 
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Time to make a change, diluted tory policies won't do although it has to be said the incumbents have nicked several of Labours.
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StJabbo1 said:
Time to make a change, diluted tory policies won't do although it has to be said the incumbents have nicked several of Labours.
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Click to expand...
Last I checked Labour weren’t in a position to do anything about this. And to go a little further - they have sort of made a point of not committing figures because they know they get treated to a different standard than the Tories on such things. If everything is not fully costed and the booked completely balanced the Tory client media will have a field day shrieking about how they can’t be trusted with the economy and yelling “tax and spend”. And it’s going to happen on day one anyway

I don’t know about everyone else but “tax and spend” sounds a lot better than “tax and not spend on improving everything but instead give it all to our mates in overpriced contracts for services they can’t or won’t actually deliver”. But perhaps I’m just some crazy outlier who should be left to shout at birds in the city centre
 
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Gregm1988 said:
Last I checked Labour weren’t in a position to do anything about this. And to go a little further - they have sort of made a point of not committing figures because they know they get treated to a different standard than the Tories on such things. If everything is not fully costed and the booked completely balanced the Tory client media will have a field day shrieking about how they can’t be trusted with the economy and yelling “tax and spend”. And it’s going to happen on day one anyway

I don’t know about everyone else but “tax and spend” sounds a lot better than “tax and not spend on improving everything but instead give it all to our mates in overpriced contracts for services they can’t or won’t actually deliver”. But perhaps I’m just some crazy outlier who should be left to shout at birds in the city centre
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Yes I understand the financial restrictions Labour will inherit. There's already a shrill misinformation/distortion campaign going on in the local and mayoral campaigns aided and abetted my the tory right wing media disgraces. Plenty of snide comments re Labour in government to.

Whilst you're shouting at the birds I'll be giving the clouds what for angrily shaking my fist. I haven't got a walking stick to wave and trip up noisy children with yet. I look forward to terrorising the neighbour with my chipped scoot mobile when the time comes.
 
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StJabbo1 said:
Time to make a change, diluted tory policies won't do although it has to be said the incumbents have nicked several of Labours.
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Click to expand...
Come on, you can’t be serious that you want the current opposition to promise this sort of spending on anything

and Benefits wise there’s also the 2 child benefit cap and they need to support working families who might actually vote for them

It has to win the election first and see what’s possible because there’s a lot of stuff that needs more money and there’s a cost of living crisis

EDIT: Sorry a bit of a repeat
 
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StJabbo1 said:
Time to make a change, diluted tory policies won't do although it has to be said the incumbents have nicked several of Labours.
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Click to expand...
I’ve seen mention of up to £2950 compensation being suggested, which will go along way to compensating some women who have lost out financially, as a result of this.
Also being said that around 270,000 WASPI women have died since the change of retirement age was brought forward, and it is estimated that WASPI are dying at the rate of one every 13 minutes. There doesn't appear to be anything, in what I have seen, to compensate those who died whilst waiting for the decision.
I think the government response has been that “we need to review the decision” which is probably the same as “we will kick the can down the road and leave it to the next government to sort out”.
 
Schrodinger's Cat said:
And if you don't believe in the invisible sky man, but still tout the religion, then you're a hypocrite and are blatantly using religion for social control.
Click to expand...

And if you're Donald Trump, you cynically exploit gullible god fearing Magas by shamelessly hawking bibles at this holy time of year for personal profit...

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Schrodinger's Cat said:
Trouble is, it will become impossible to tell if any video footage/audio is genuine without source checking carefully, and those people who have been shouting fake news will do so even more.

We are indeed in a post-truth world.


It was funny though
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I genuinely feel that we are fast approaching that dystopian future we have read about in novels and seen in films.
Didn’t think I would see it in my lifetime.
 
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<ghost>
Schrodinger's Cat said:
I look at the Irish situation. Religion really doesnt help over there and that's without considering the organised *****philia within the Catholic Church. India also has massive problems with religious rivalry and Nationalism, and don't get me started on Islamic government.
I also don't believe that religion creates community, it's just one factor in why people group together, and in fact is often divisive within communities.
And I certainly don't need to look at some dubious collection of writings from millenia ago to steer my morality.
Everyone can believe what they like as far as I'm concerned, but not when their beliefs infringe on my freedoms. I also think that organised religion has held society back, has caused waves of violence over the years and is currently being wrapped up with Nationalism to justify the actions of the 'righteous'

This country was generally Christian for years because it suits government to be able to use God to control the people, it maintained the social heirarchy and kept people in their designated place.
I say **** that for the future of humanity, and grow up if you actually think that an invisible sky man does sit there watching the world.
And if you don't believe in the invisible sky man, but still tout the religion, then you're a hypocrite and are blatantly using religion for social control.
Click to expand...

The very idea that humans are individuals in their own right, that basically forms our justice system is essentially a Christian idea.

Before Christianity, humans were seen as property and slaves. Organised religion had a big part to play in the foundation of the legal system, the justice system, capitalism and many other things which the country is built upon. Basically the idea of treating each human as an individual with their own rights stems from Christianity.

I guess yes, I agree, what I am saying is that religion was a useful tool for social control and aligning people’s world views for a common good. Look at all the cathedrals, paintings and art that has been produced in the name of religion over the years.

I also strongly think that a move away from spirituality has caused negative effects in society. As I said. It seems to have left a void in people that is being filled with other more toxic ideas.

Like it or not, it has been a truly centralising force for hundreds of years. Decentralisation of communities has an impact on the country.

I’m not saying it is all positive, by any means. It’s caused many problems too as you rightly suggest. But atheism leaves a spiritual void in people imo.

I do wish I was religious in some ways. It must be nice to have faith in something. But I personally just can’t accept that a man was brought back from the dead, no matter how much I try <laugh>
 
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