Off Topic Society needs a reset

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master-simpson said:
Sorry but the entire criminal justice system, the police & prisons needs a wholesale review.

We absolutely should be aiming to build more prisons, and recruit the people to man them.

Scum who loot shops and put lives in danger doing so, currently have no deterrent and simply expect to get away with it. They actually blame society for their ways.

We’ll feck that!! There’s absolutely no excuse for this scum to be allowed to get away with it.

It’s the same for these kids carrying knives. There’s adequate laws to deal with it, but it’s rarely used. So kids just think they’re untouchable.

Stop & Search should be done wholesale, and start locking these idiots up for a long time. Until there’s a deterrent, things will only get worse.

No doubt some loony lefties will come out with some s h I t e like it’s not their fault!! Well that’s bollocks. These kids know what’s right and wrong.

Rant over

Bart
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Some of the highest rates of crime, and the biggest recent increases, are fraud, particularly banking fraud and financial investment fraud.

The way Post Office workers were sent to prison, while the executives raked in huge bonuses, is typical of how innocent people are failed by the system.

Looting and knife crime may be more shocking but much more rare.
 
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Smug in Boots said:
Some of the highest rates of crime, and the biggest recent increases, are fraud, particularly banking fraud and financial investment fraud.

The way Post Office workers were sent to prison, while the executives raked in huge bonuses, is typical of how innocent people are failed by the system.

Looting and knife crime may be more shocking but much more rare.
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No. No. No. No. No.

The problem isn't the conmen at the anonymous ghouls at the top of the tree syphoning millions out of the system to go into their ratholes abroad.

It's that junkie Eileen stealing a four quid block of cheese and a pair of sunnies.
 
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Disco down under said:
Women should learn to look after the home and men should learn carpentry?

With one notion, you just set us back 2000 years to a little place called Nazareth. Think they had criminals back then too. Maybe we should start crucifying people too.

Close run thing but thats not far off the stupidest thing I have ever read on here.

How does treating women like we are under Taliban rule help crime rates or society?

Utterly weird sentiment.
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absolutely no clue what you are on about...'set us back 2000 years'???

have you any idea how bad most things have gone recently since PRACTICAL SKILLS were taken from the classroom, many do not know how to cook and survive mainly on take-aways (have a check on how many such establishments are near you now), i see kids now with no idea how to use a feckin saw...i am not implying that everything has to 'go back' but we at least need to start putting some useful information into kids heads so they have a good chance to develop a feel for a skilled job.

so much has been taken from society now, people are being 'trained' to live on any help they can...'here is your card, you have an overdraft, you can spend more than you have' and they certainly do, start paying a weekly wage so people learn the value of money and more importantly the spending of it, try taking a look at how bad society is now, the friendly people in the street are far less now and trust is all but gone along with common sense.

evaluate the post rather than picking a sentence or two and condemning it...something needs to be done and if some people feel electing the biggest thieves in society to rule and allowing hundreds of thousands to pour into the country then adding a couple of 'old fashioned values' is as perfectly as acceptable as them.
 
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samwise_new said:
absolutely no clue what you are on about...'set us back 2000 years'???

have you any idea how bad most things have gone recently since PRACTICAL SKILLS were taken from the classroom, many do not know how to cook and survive mainly on take-aways (have a check on how many such establishments are near you now), i see kids now with no idea how to use a feckin saw...i am not implying that everything has to 'go back' but we at least need to start putting some useful information into kids heads so they have a good chance to develop a feel for a skilled job.

so much has been taken from society now, people are being 'trained' to live on any help they can...'here is your card, you have an overdraft, you can spend more than you have' and they certainly do, start paying a weekly wage so people learn the value of money and more importantly the spending of it, try taking a look at how bad society is now, the friendly people in the street are far less now and trust is all but gone along with common sense.

evaluate the post rather than picking a sentence or two and condemning it...something needs to be done and if some people feel electing the biggest thieves in society to rule and allowing hundreds of thousands to pour into the country then adding a couple of 'old fashioned values' is as perfectly as acceptable as them.
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Didn't really get through that. Your original post sounded like you were suggesting my two year old ought to forgo an actual education and oppotunities in life to instead be groomed to keep house for a tradesman.

I'm pretty unapologetic in thinking you can take your stone age attitude back into the cave with you.
 
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Disco down under said:
Didn't really get through that. Your original post sounded like you were suggesting my two year old ought to forgo an actual education and oppotunities in life to instead be groomed to keep house for a tradesman.

I'm pretty unapologetic in thinking you can take your stone age attitude back into the cave with you.
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wow..just... wow... i am really pleased i do not have your way of thinking, one sentence that does not actually agree with your 'modern human' way gets completely stamped on and built into something it never was meant to be, in fact i am not going there, you can have your last 'reply' otherwise this will become endless.

good day.
 
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COYCS said:
Great thread @Blond Bombshell some differing views, but a reasonable concensus of opinion.

So many of those options fall inline with my view, for me l would like to see the punishment fit the crime. Life should be exactly that, otherwise, why call it life.
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We don't have enough police to catch criminals, enough courts to process them or prisons to confine them. We don't have enough interest from politicians to change that or enough educators to change the way we're going.

And when you have people at the top preaching that greed is good those down the line will follow suit. When a top government adviser can break the law and claim it was an eye test we've no chance of changing society for the better.
 
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Smug in Boots said:
We don't have enough police to catch criminals, enough courts to process them or prisons to confine them. We don't have enough interest from politicians to change that or enough educators to change the way we're going.

And when you have people at the top preaching that greed is good those down the line will follow suit. When a top government adviser can break the law and claim it was an eye test we've no chance of changing society for the better.
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Very true, you missed out judges, everything comes from the top, and starts with respect.
Sadly l have no respect for those at the top.
 
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Smug in Boots said:
We don't have enough police to catch criminals, enough courts to process them or prisons to confine them. We don't have enough interest from politicians to change that or enough educators to change the way we're going.

And when you have people at the top preaching that greed is good those down the line will follow suit. When a top government adviser can break the law and claim it was an eye test we've no chance of changing society for the better.
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Got to start somewhere Smug.

The system ain’t working, and loads of folk are getting away with it, including violent & obscene crimes, simply because there is no deterrent.

Like I said, change is required. Will we see any? Not in my lifetime!! But until we do, things WILL get worse.

Bart
 
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Smug in Boots said:
Some of the highest rates of crime, and the biggest recent increases, are fraud, particularly banking fraud and financial investment fraud.

The way Post Office workers were sent to prison, while the executives raked in huge bonuses, is typical of how innocent people are failed by the system.

Looting and knife crime may be more shocking but much more rare.
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Almost all dual nationals aswell.
 
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samwise_new said:
wow..just... wow... i am really pleased i do not have your way of thinking, one sentence that does not actually agree with your 'modern human' way gets completely stamped on and built into something it never was meant to be, in fact i am not going there, you can have your last 'reply' otherwise this will become endless.

good day.
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You think schoolgirls should learn how to look after a home but not schoolboys.

That’s the big problem here you caveman.
 
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TopCat_ said:
Agree with all of that

Apart from this


The bit in bold is naive

There is a reason these quotas exists - centuries of discrimination. Even now, women are dismissed as "knowing nowt" by men in a lot of situations. My wife's car was damaged at work by some scaffolders. Initially they offered her £80 to get it fixed and refused to engage with her about insurance etc. Then I turned up and the conversation was serious and I was "mate" to them and we talked about getting quotes etc.

It might be casual sexism/misogyny, maybe it's more overt, but it still exists. The same for racism, homophobia etc etc. We tell ourselves we are a more enlightened society. these days, but we aren't. Remove those quotas and workplaces will be full of white, British males and the minorities won't find work.
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It might be a romantic notion from me - however where I slightly disagree is that I employ a few over 50 people now. We have 8 nationalities, 63% of the workforce are female. There are at least 4 different religions - all of them got their job on merit - not because they were white males. Ive today employed a black guy as well as a Belgian woman whose parents are Indian. I don't think your statements stand for every employer.

I do agree though that if the employer has entrenched views then you have a very valid point
 
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COYCS said:
Great thread @Blond Bombshell some differing views, but a reasonable concensus of opinion.

So many of those options fall inline with my view, for me l would like to see the punishment fit the crime. Life should be exactly that, otherwise, why call it life.
Click to expand...
Thanks marra. Agree with most comments on here. Change has to start from the top. We need a reset of morales and values, but this will take time. The change would require our schools to teach these behaviours and rewards for good human decency. We would almost have to over reward what we today would deem normal acceptable behaviours, just to start the change.
 
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Blond Bombshell said:
Thanks marra. Agree with most comments on here. Change has to start from the top. We need a reset of morales and values, but this will take time. The change would require our schools to teach these behaviours and rewards for good human decency. We would almost have to over reward what we today would deem normal acceptable behaviours, just to start the change.
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Schools do try to teach these things. The problem is that successive governments (I don't want to start a political thing here but it's been Labour and Conservative govts) expect schools to pick up all of the slack in society and that's not their purpose. They are there to give an academic education. It is the responsibility of the parents to give a moral education. Children are now starting school more and more regularly that are not toilet trained, unable to use a knife and fork, unable to dress themselves properly. There's been a government suggestion recently that schools should have kids clean their teeth when they arrive, because their parents aren't doing it at home. Teachers are overworked as it is, often doing 15-16hr days. I could go in to more detail but I'd be here forever. The only thing they aren't allowed to do is discipline poor behaviour. So parents now complain if their child gets into trouble at school. Rather than demanding an explanation from the child, they go in to the school to defend them. They want schools to literally parent their kids but woe betide any school that tells their child that their behaviour isn't acceptable.

If people don't respect schools, schools can't make a difference to society's morals. It has to be done through the channels that people do listen to. Sadly that is the media, including social media and bloody 'influencers'. There is this theme in society currently that we must question authority and the establishment. That's why we've had so many Covid deniers and why belief in pseudo-science is on the rise. Its more attractive to believe the lone wolf who claims to know the secrets that the establishment are hiding from you than it is to believe the establishment. The thing is, the establishment is in actual fact hundreds or thousands of people carrying out research and experiments and repeatedly reaching the same conclusion. They aren't hiding anything.

What we need is to change the zeitgeist. We have to create a society that has more respect for each other. That doesn't mean going on a protest and chucking soup at a painting or waving a rainbow flag but then going back to being a twat the rest of the time, it means proper respect for people and things around you as a way of being. The only way that can be achieved is by a huge shift in the messages people are given through the channels that they are most engaged with.
 
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Blond Bombshell said:
Thanks marra. Agree with most comments on here. Change has to start from the top. We need a reset of morales and values, but this will take time. The change would require our schools to teach these behaviours and rewards for good human decency. We would almost have to over reward what we today would deem normal acceptable behaviours, just to start the change.
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Agree with you there. I think we have lost a couple of generations, changing them won't happen, so we need to set very young off on the right way , as soon as they start school. I don't like to put it onto the teachers, but we can't rely on a lot of the recent generation parents.
People say that kids are awful/different, have changed in this day and age. But all kids were born as knowing nothing babies who grow into their circumstances and what they see and hear and copy. What has changed is society's expectations of them and it's tolerance , acceptance and excusing of their behaviours.
 
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The Norton Cat said:
Schools do try to teach these things. The problem is that successive governments (I don't want to start a political thing here but it's been Labour and Conservative govts) expect schools to pick up all of the slack in society and that's not their purpose. They are there to give an academic education. It is the responsibility of the parents to give a moral education. Children are now starting school more and more regularly that are not toilet trained, unable to use a knife and fork, unable to dress themselves properly. There's been a government suggestion recently that schools should have kids clean their teeth when they arrive, because their parents aren't doing it at home. Teachers are overworked as it is, often doing 15-16hr days. I could go in to more detail but I'd be here forever. The only thing they aren't allowed to do is discipline poor behaviour. So parents now complain if their child gets into trouble at school. Rather than demanding an explanation from the child, they go in to the school to defend them. They want schools to literally parent their kids but woe betide any school that tells their child that their behaviour isn't acceptable.

If people don't respect schools, schools can't make a difference to society's morals. It has to be done through the channels that people do listen to. Sadly that is the media, including social media and bloody 'influencers'. There is this theme in society currently that we must question authority and the establishment. That's why we've had so many Covid deniers and why belief in pseudo-science is on the rise. Its more attractive to believe the lone wolf who claims to know the secrets that the establishment are hiding from you than it is to believe the establishment. The thing is, the establishment is in actual fact hundreds or thousands of people carrying out research and experiments and repeatedly reaching the same conclusion. They aren't hiding anything.

What we need is to change the zeitgeist. We have to create a society that has more respect for each other. That doesn't mean going on a protest and chucking soup at a painting or waving a rainbow flag but then going back to being a twat the rest of the time, it means proper respect for people and things around you as a way of being. The only way that can be achieved is by a huge shift in the messages people are given through the channels that they are most engaged with.
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Thanks for taking your time to reply and hope it hasn't resurfaced any old wounds marra. Great post :emoticon-0148-yes:
 
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The Norton Cat said:
Schools do try to teach these things. The problem is that successive governments (I don't want to start a political thing here but it's been Labour and Conservative govts) expect schools to pick up all of the slack in society and that's not their purpose. They are there to give an academic education. It is the responsibility of the parents to give a moral education. Children are now starting school more and more regularly that are not toilet trained, unable to use a knife and fork, unable to dress themselves properly. There's been a government suggestion recently that schools should have kids clean their teeth when they arrive, because their parents aren't doing it at home. Teachers are overworked as it is, often doing 15-16hr days. I could go in to more detail but I'd be here forever. The only thing they aren't allowed to do is discipline poor behaviour. So parents now complain if their child gets into trouble at school. Rather than demanding an explanation from the child, they go in to the school to defend them. They want schools to literally parent their kids but woe betide any school that tells their child that their behaviour isn't acceptable.

If people don't respect schools, schools can't make a difference to society's morals. It has to be done through the channels that people do listen to. Sadly that is the media, including social media and bloody 'influencers'. There is this theme in society currently that we must question authority and the establishment. That's why we've had so many Covid deniers and why belief in pseudo-science is on the rise. Its more attractive to believe the lone wolf who claims to know the secrets that the establishment are hiding from you than it is to believe the establishment. The thing is, the establishment is in actual fact hundreds or thousands of people carrying out research and experiments and repeatedly reaching the same conclusion. They aren't hiding anything.

What we need is to change the zeitgeist. We have to create a society that has more respect for each other. That doesn't mean going on a protest and chucking soup at a painting or waving a rainbow flag but then going back to being a twat the rest of the time, it means proper respect for people and things around you as a way of being. The only way that can be achieved is by a huge shift in the messages people are given through the channels that they are most engaged with.
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Spot on, well written mate
 
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Blond Bombshell said:
Thanks for taking your time to reply and hope it hasn't resurfaced any old wounds marra. Great post :emoticon-0148-yes:
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Not me, marra. Its my wife that's the teacher. We're in our 40s now so she's been a teacher 20 odd years. It's hard seeing her go from a job she was so passionate about to one she's desperate to leave. She still loves teaching the kids, it's all the other pressures.
 
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The Norton Cat said:
Not me, marra. Its my wife that's the teacher. We're in our 40s now so she's been a teacher 20 odd years. It's hard seeing her go from a job she was so passionate about to one she's desperate leave. She still loves teaching the kids, it's all the other pressures.
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I've read a lot of teacher debates, your wife is not alone here. Its a very sad state of affairs. God bless her and all teachers trying to educate our young.
 
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