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It feels like the unexpected over achievement of last season is one of the worst things that could have happened to the clubs plans.

Some of our fans have developed such an entitlement that any step backwards will be seen as a catastrophe.

We've invested in 2 strikers this summer. Hemir and Mayenda are talented youngsters who will be assets to this club and will provide us with greater opportunities in the future. We also have Ross Stewart, who many would argue is our best player and the best striker in the league when fit.

So that's 3 strikers vying for 1 position. We obviously need a 4th due to injuries, and one on loan will be the perfect balance within the squad. If we sign one permanently that can also play in one of the positions behind the striker, then that would also make sense.

But signing "proven" championship strikers at this point is gambling on immediate success at the expense of the financial security of the club, the balance of the squad and the development of our young players.

I'd rather we finished mid-table this season and spend another 2-3 years at this level to get promoted by building a squad in the right way for the long term, than to risk it all just for the sake of having it "now".
 
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WorkyTicketFTM said:
Did you actually watch a single minute of Maja once he left Sunderland or have you just quickly looked on Wikipedia at his stats?

Exactly the same boat as Roberts and Clarke were in before joining.
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Did you? Please explain how he was in exactly the same boat as Roberts and Clarke?

Went to Bordeaux, did nowt and they were relegated
Went to Fulham on loan and did nowt
Went to Stoke and did nowt

I'm sorry but he's not a good example of signing an experienced striker who can hit the ground running.

Just out of curiosity what level football would the French 2nd division equate to in your opinion?
 
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Magnus said:
when fans say sign an established championship striker i don't think the realise how much the actually cost , anywhere between 10-20m now

archer has scored about 20 goals in the championship, and villa want about 20m

akpom been terrible, his first good season last season 12m

simms played 17 games in championship for us went for a deal worth 8m

cannon played half a season Everton want 8m

sadly the only teams playing them fees is teams who have sold players or teams who have parachute payments

no one else in the championship is doing it,

that's the reason the club is shopping over seas nothing to do with 'ambition'
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The other thing which no-one seems to factor in, is that there's no such thing as a "sure thing". Every transfer is still a gamble.

As an example, here's 2 player profiles:

Player 1: 24 year old, didn't quite work out for him in the Premier League (5 goals in 34) but he's scored 19 and 18 goals in his last 2 Championship seasons. Cost his club £15m.

Player 2: 24 years old, didn't quite work out for him in the Dutch league (3 goals in 28) but he's scored 22 and 19 goals in his last 2 Championship seasons. Cost his club £2m.

Player 1 is Karlan Grant. He'd have been considered a proven Championship goalscorer at the start of last season. What I didn't include is that he scored just 3 goals in 31 games last season and West Brom have loaned him out to Cardiff. They have a £15m asset that has flopped and they can't move on permanently.

Player 2 is Joel Piroe. A fine player, and highly sought after. He's potentially moving on for £20m this summer.

"Proven" players are hugely expensive and are still don't guarantee anything. The beauty of the Piroe signing, is that Swansea could have had 5-7 gambles on players like that and only needing 1 to come off for it to be a better transfer than the proven striker.
 
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Ozzymac said:
Did you? Please explain how he was in exactly the same boat as Roberts and Clarke?

Went to Bordeaux, did nowt and they were relegated
Went to Fulham on loan and did nowt
Went to Stoke and did nowt

I'm sorry but he's not a good example of signing an experienced striker who can hit the ground running.

Just out of curiosity what level football would the French 2nd division equate to in your opinion?
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He went to Bordeaux and not long after they started having major financial issues which dropped them into administration.. he rarely got a run of games because the manager continued to play his favourites for whatever reason. Wouldn’t be surprised if it was do with bonuses in Majas contract. His first season in L1 I think he scored about 10 goals in 25 games in all comps and only started about half of those. Was loaned out when they were in financial difficulties to help with wage bill issues, went to Fulham and scored a few goals in the PL whilst playing mostly off the bench. Of the few games he started he scored a brace at Everton.

He also wasn’t even at the club when they were relegated, he had a back injury that kept him out for the first half of the season then the second half was Stoke on loan I’m sure where again he was mostly playing off the bench. Then he went back for their L2 season and scored a hat full.

I’d probably put Ligue 2 just below the championship but above the likes of Portugal’s Segunda that Hemir was playing in. A lot of teams who get relegated from Ligue 1 struggle to go straight back up.


Worth noting - Patrick Roberts was ****e at Boro, Derby, Girona, Norwich and couldn’t even get a game for Troyes before we signed him. Apparently the best RW in the league.
 
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WorkyTicketFTM said:
Yeah, I named those specifically because realistically we still have Stewart and he’s our main striker so IMO we need someone who has a few games under their belt and can slot in straight away. I don’t blame the club for signing the younger strikers at all I think they’re both great signings and I’m certainly not daft enough to think we should be spending £10m+ on a striker at this level.

We don’t need someone to score every game we just need the clever runs, occupying defenders to create space etc which generally players get with experience.

Maja for instance we seen how clever his movement is when he was at Sunderland and he’s a great finisher, I think it would’ve been a good option to have on the bench once Stewart is back (if he is) and offers something different then we’d have Hemir as the 3rd striker and Mayenda as cover out wide aswell as being able to slot in up top.

I think for the younger lads to come in and make an impact straight away it’s difficult because of how teams set up to frustrate us and they won’t be used to that. Hemir will be fine, it’s not his fault whatsoever we were **** against Ipswich. He had absolutely no service but sections of our fans refuse to point the finger at Roberts and Clarke because they’re normally top drawer.

But even Maja and Nisbet are 24/25 ish with 5+ seasons under their belt which is considerably more than Hemir and you feel like they could’ve maybe just dealt with us trying to adapt better than throwing the young lad straight in when he has no other striker on the grass in training to learn off amongst obviously coming to a new country, new lifestyle and lots of changes off the field etc. I’ve never really thought of it until now but that’s probably another reason we need Stewart to stay.

Sorry for boring you to death :emoticon-0102-bigsm
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They are very good points and I do agree somewhat with what you say however do we need to bring in short term players who we think are not really good enough or do we allow the ones we have time to develop (look at Ekwah last year) the ones we have may surprise us all but it could also become very bad very quick. There are a lot of reasons to spend and bring somebody in but for every reason to do it there is a reason not too. Guess that's why we have opinions but for me I think a good loan would be preferable if possible so it allows us the short term cover I think we need and the chance to allow our own young talent to grow into the roles we have for them. Up until now I think our buisness looks pretty good so I am now hoping for a little bit more good news in the next week or so and then we can all just start supporting what we have and not keep looking for what we might have
 
WorkyTicketFTM said:
We don’t need someone to score every game we just need the clever runs, occupying defenders to create space etc which generally players get with experience.
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Think we will see Dack offer a lot of this, presume from the number 10 role....but hes been said to be good around dressing room & training pitch....so we should see our younger lads pick up on this too
 
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WorkyTicketFTM said:
Did you actually watch a single minute of Maja once he left Sunderland or have you just quickly looked on Wikipedia at his stats?

Exactly the same boat as Roberts and Clarke were in before joining.
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Think Maja's issue is desire too, lets say hes same boat as Roberts, Roberts came here & has kicked on....Clarke too.....Maja can see this....if he had owt about him he should have been screaming at his agent to get him to Sunderland so he can get his career back on track, his agent convinced him to leave us for money....its damaged him....he should have been willing to come here for less than say other clubs can offer thinking if i have 2 good years there i can be in PL & on mega money...he should have chased Sunderland as mich as us go for him
 
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Monkey69 said:
They are very good points and I do agree somewhat with what you say however do we need to bring in short term players who we think are not really good enough or do we allow the ones we have time to develop (look at Ekwah last year) the ones we have may surprise us all but it could also become very bad very quick. There are a lot of reasons to spend and bring somebody in but for every reason to do it there is a reason not too. Guess that's why we have opinions but for me I think a good loan would be preferable if possible so it allows us the short term cover I think we need and the chance to allow our own young talent to grow into the roles we have for them. Up until now I think our buisness looks pretty good so I am now hoping for a little bit more good news in the next week or so and then we can all just start supporting what we have and not keep looking for what we might have
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Our business so far has been brilliant there’s no denying that and most of whom we’ve signed have turned out to be pretty f**king good. I just sometimes think we’ve signed a lot of youngsters and we can’t fit them all in which isn’t an issue if you’re a PL club and can afford to piss money up the wall then loan them straight out etc but we need to be sufficient with our budget.


The Professor said:
Think we will see Dack offer a lot of this, presume from the number 10 role....but hes been said to be good around dressing room & training pitch....so we should see our younger lads pick up on this too
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Defo mate. Said it when I first heard of interest he’s a brilliant player and exactly what we need behind the striker, ahead of Pritchard for me even though I know that’s probably a bit controversial because Pritch has been good for us but we need to really manage Dack because of his 2 bad injuries. Fell out with JDT because he didn’t really fit into his system and you could see from the Blackburn fans reaction they weren’t happy to be losing him.
 
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Where does this Maja being lazy and having a bad attitude come from? The lad was fantastic for us. He's a 6yard striker. Left us for loads higher wages hence we haven't tried to resign him. Sure if we matched his wages he'd nap at the chance to come back
 
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Flash Gordon said:
The other thing which no-one seems to factor in, is that there's no such thing as a "sure thing". Every transfer is still a gamble.

As an example, here's 2 player profiles:

Player 1: 24 year old, didn't quite work out for him in the Premier League (5 goals in 34) but he's scored 19 and 18 goals in his last 2 Championship seasons. Cost his club £15m.

Player 2: 24 years old, didn't quite work out for him in the Dutch league (3 goals in 28) but he's scored 22 and 19 goals in his last 2 Championship seasons. Cost his club £2m.

Player 1 is Karlan Grant. He'd have been considered a proven Championship goalscorer at the start of last season. What I didn't include is that he scored just 3 goals in 31 games last season and West Brom have loaned him out to Cardiff. They have a £15m asset that has flopped and they can't move on permanently.

Player 2 is Joel Piroe. A fine player, and highly sought after. He's potentially moving on for £20m this summer.

"Proven" players are hugely expensive and are still don't guarantee anything. The beauty of the Piroe signing, is that Swansea could have had 5-7 gambles on players like that and only needing 1 to come off for it to be a better transfer than the proven striker.
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Great post
 
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Wardley Makem said:
Where does this Maja being lazy and having a bad attitude come from? The lad was fantastic for us. He's a 6yard striker. Left us for loads higher wages hence we haven't tried to resign him. Sure if we matched his wages he'd nap at the chance to come back
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Wasnt suggesting bad attitude, desire & bad attitude are too different things to me, at times i just dont think he looks like he wants it enough to me

No doubt will when plays against us mind!!
 
Just rejoined and can’t be bothered to catch-up. But this business about a striker being experienced - is experience really all that important? A striker “with experience” (if he is good) means he has developed a sense of where to be at the right time, but some players have that 6th sense naturally. The likes of Clough hit the ground running because it’s “in them”. So age, games played shouldn’t be the main consideration. The only criteria should be: does he score goals. I don’t care how old, how many games he has under his belt. He can be 29 with 100 first team games, or 18 and played 20 games, as long as he scores regularly and fits our style (whatever that may be). Before the machine guns come out, I stress that this is only my opinion and I know nowt.
 
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Ozzymac said:
Did you? Please explain how he was in exactly the same boat as Roberts and Clarke?

Went to Bordeaux, did nowt and they were relegated
Went to Fulham on loan and did nowt
Went to Stoke and did nowt

I'm sorry but he's not a good example of signing an experienced striker who can hit the ground running.

Just out of curiosity what level football would the French 2nd division equate to in your opinion?
Click to expand...
See the Maja thing doesn’t sit tight with me. He left making alll sorts of accusations, which felt like they were of racist connotations to me (just an opinion), and, instead of making a name for himself and probably keeping us in the division, he ran off to pastures new.

There was never a club investigation into the “way he had been treated”. He’s also done little of note since leaving. So what is the point
 
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