Our right to peaceful protest ...

Smug in Boots · May 31, 2023

... is being put in jeopardy, by aggressive protestors, and the government is introducing more restrictive laws every year.

Every time there's a protest about oil, Trans rights or women's safety it seems they can't exercise their right to demonstrate without it escalating into confrontation with the police or the general public.

It appears they want free speech but only if people agree with them. Anyone who doesn't is a bigot or being brainwashed by the government, internet fanatics or 'the Media'.

The woman, at the Oxford Union, who needed protection from a rabid mob seems to have, as her crime, the opinion that 'women' with knobs shouldn't be allowed into females spaces like toilets. It seems that a society that's welcomed all manner of speakers, from Gerry Adams to Colonel Gaddafi should ban a woman who believes a man can never totally become a woman.

What she believes is a fact, it's physically impossible.

My question to men who want to be a woman is this,
'Would you think you'd be more offended by using a men's changing room, as you've always done ...

... than women would be if you lobbed your knob out in theirs.

DH4 · May 31, 2023

Came across this when working on Newcastle University. Was some "student" demanding I move out of the way because he wanted to use the "gender neutral" toilet despite there being loads of other toilets in the vicinity. I told him all toilets are gender neutral, only urinals are gender specific and to "piss" off. He shopped me to Uni bosses <laugh>

samwise_new · May 31, 2023

Smug in Boots said:
... is being put in jeopardy, by aggressive protestors, and the government is introducing more restrictive laws every year.

Every time there's a protest about oil, Trans rights or women's safety it seems they can't exercise their right to demonstrate without it escalating into confrontation with the police or the general public.

It appears they want free speech but only if people agree with them. Anyone who doesn't is a bigot or being brainwashed by the government, internet fanatics or 'the Media'.

The woman, at the Oxford Union, who needed protection from a rabid mob seems to have, as her crime, the opinion that 'women' with knobs shouldn't be allowed into females spaces like toilets. It seems that a society that's welcomed all manner of speakers, from Gerry Adams to Colonel Gaddafi should ban a woman who believes a man can never totally become a woman.

What she believes is a fact, it's physically impossible.

My question to men who want to be a woman is this,
'Would you think you'd be more offended by using a men's changing room, as you've always done ...

... than women would be if you lobbed your knob out in theirs.

i honestly do not know what to make of it, while there are many who are truly stuck in the position where they know they are the wrong sex there are also many just 'fancy giving it a go' or using it to get more fans/record sales/think it is a trend to join etc and they dont understand the harm they can do..the genuine ones need help but it seems all to regular that it is the wrong ones making all the demands.

i do not want blokes walking into female changing rooms or popping along to a female only swimming session, it only takes on pervert to do a lot of damage for those seeking help and no one with any sense wants that.

Pure River Slut · May 31, 2023

Would probably help if we had funding for community activity and arts then people could crack on and do stuff. All the money goes on paying private care provider tax dodgers many of whom are linked to mp’s

Smug in Boots · May 31, 2023

samwise_new said:
i honestly do not know what to make of it, while there are many who are truly stuck in the position where they know they are the wrong sex there are also many just 'fancy giving it a go' or using it to get more fans/record sales/think it is a trend to join etc and they dont understand the harm they can do..the genuine ones need help but it seems all to regular that it is the wrong ones making all the demands.

i do not want blokes walking into female changing rooms or popping along to a female only swimming session, it only takes on pervert to do a lot of damage for those seeking help and no one with any sense wants that.

It's come to the point when ordinary people are castigated if they're not comfortable with every new thing. If i don't believe Schofield is a hero for 'coming out' I'm from the stone age ... if I don't believe gay couples should 'have babies' I'm a bigot.

I'm not supposed to have opinions otherwise I'm denying someone their rights. I don't feel responsible for black slaves and don't think I've anything to apologise for ... dont whinge at me, sue me.

It's ridiculous imho that people who aren't gay, black, female, conflicted, experiencing mental issues, a victim, vegan, trans or allergic to f**king lard are continually told they have to accept anything and everything that 'enlightened people' throw at them.

Fentonpell · May 31, 2023

Smug in Boots said:
It's come to the point when ordinary people are castigated if they're not comfortable with every new thing. If i don't believe Schofield is a hero for 'coming out' I'm from the stone age ... if I don't believe gay couples should 'have babies' I'm a bigot.

I'm not supposed to have opinions otherwise I'm denying someone their rights. I don't feel responsible for black slaves and don't think I've anything to apologise for ... dont whinge at me, sue me.

It's ridiculous imho that people who aren't gay, black, female, conflicted, experiencing mental issues, a victim, vegan, trans or allergic to f**king lard are continually told they have to accept anything and everything that 'enlightened people' throw at them.

Someone once said to me (btw I am female) that white, heterosexual males no longer have a say in this country. I agreed with him

DH4 · May 31, 2023

Smug in Boots said:
It's come to the point when ordinary people are castigated if they're not comfortable with every new thing. If i don't believe Schofield is a hero for 'coming out' I'm from the stone age ... if I don't believe gay couples should 'have babies' I'm a bigot.

I'm not supposed to have opinions otherwise I'm denying someone their rights. I don't feel responsible for black slaves and don't think I've anything to apologise for ... dont whinge at me, sue me.

It's ridiculous imho that people who aren't gay, black, female, conflicted, experiencing mental issues, a victim, vegan, trans or allergic to f**king lard are continually told they have to accept anything and everything that 'enlightened people' throw at them.

The only people left who have no "rights" are white, working class, heterosexual men

Smug in Boots · May 31, 2023

Just wondering ...

... how do all the 'just stop oil' protesters get to their demonstrations <whistle>

FellTop · May 31, 2023

I might be wrong but I dont see too many peaceful protestors anymore. Protestors mostly seem to think they need to be disruptive or destructive. I would call this civil disobedience, where they know authorities will have to act as they are breaking a law, or likely to inflame a situation. I dont like them when they do this. Chucking orange paint at the snooker, disrupting the grand national, slow marching, blocking petrol stations. None of this is what I consider peaceful personally. The Just Stop Oil bloke has today asked the public to donate and he will match it. I can only assume this is to cause more public disruption. Organisations like them make me angry not empathetic.

Peaceful protestors would be where you use non violent, or non provocative means, to resist something. Some mass marches do this well, I have taken part in some. Petitions to parliament, engaging your MP are valid. History is littered with tremendous revolution triggered by non violent resistance. My favourite being Rosa Parks, who became iconic in the most iconic of movements. Protest like that is worth a 1000 angry people with orange paint.

Smug in Boots · May 31, 2023

FellTop said:
I might be wrong but I dont see too many peaceful protestors anymore. Protestors mostly seem to think they need to be disruptive or destructive. I would call this civil disobedience, where they know authorities will have to act as they are breaking a law, or likely to inflame a situation. I dont like them when they do this. Chucking orange paint at the snooker, disrupting the grand national, slow marching, blocking petrol stations. None of this is what I consider peaceful personally. The Just Stop Oil bloke has today asked the public to donate and he will match it. I can only assume this is to cause more public disruption. Organisations like them make me angry not empathetic.

Peaceful protestors would be where you use non violent, or non provocative means, to resist something. Some mass marches do this well, I have taken part in some. Petitions to parliament, engaging your MP are valid. History is littered with tremendous revolution triggered by non violent resistance. My favourite being Rosa Parks, who became iconic in the most iconic of movements. Protest like that is worth a 1000 angry people with orange paint.

When people rioted in Cardiff because police dared to be on the same street as two people on a bike I instantly took against them ...

... 'Yeah im setting fire to my neighbours car in sympafy for Tyrone, its what he wudda wanted'.

Tossers.

rowley · Jun 1, 2023

On the subject of Kathleen Stock, she is right according to proven, biological fact, accepted as so for millenia. She lost her job at Sussex University because she would not recant this basic truth. Cowardly and venal University authorities bowed down to an hysterical, deluded, wild eyed, brainwashed and noisy minority.

Many, women in England and Scotland have lost their jobs or have suffered heavily in other ways for holding to this obvious truth.

Was this even a subject for discussion just a few years ago?

Of course it wasn't. It was accepted that gender dysphoria was a very rare condition, which should be helped and supported as the system could allow, but no public figure would ever have been asked the question, "what is a woman", because the answer, "adult human female", is so obviously true.

But this is just the latest appropriation of the language. There are other examples and they poison the public discourse to the point where the Leader of the Opposition and potential Prime Minister says on public record that a woman can have a penis, though he can not possibly believe such a thing. Other pathetic politicians, trying to catch the wind, give forth similar rubbish.

They do so because they live in bubbles. They think such idiocy and infantile thinking are mainstream because it's what they say to each other. But it isn't. Almost everyone knows this, especially women.

As with the stop oil arseholes. Mostly middle class, often retired, always hypocritical, they consider debate a sell out. You either agree with everything they say or you are guilty of "hate". This lame, immature and tunneled thinking obviously applies to the police, who allow these fanatics to repeatedly and openly break the law. But try and protest IN FAVOUR, of oil and gas, which we will certainly need for at least the next sixty years, and you will be banged up within the hour.

The country, and Western Society is in the grip of forces we do not elect it seems. Country after country, commiting acts of economic self harm, and insisting they are doing the opposite. Black is white. Top is bottom. Bad is good.

Stalin knew what he was doing when he called his fellow Marxist, Trotsky a right winger. Any insult would do for a mortal enemy, even if it was blatantly incorrect.

Too long, I know. Just as well I'm not that regular a poster!

Brainy Dose · Jun 1, 2023

rowley said:
On the subject of Kathleen Stock, she is right according to proven, biological fact, accepted as so for millenia. She lost her job at Sussex University because she would not recant this basic truth. Cowardly and venal University authorities bowed down to an hysterical, deluded, wild eyed, brainwashed and noisy minority.

Many, women in England and Scotland have lost their jobs or have suffered heavily in other ways for holding to this obvious truth.

Was this even a subject for discussion just a few years ago?

Of course it wasn't. It was accepted that gender dysphoria was a very rare condition, which should be helped and supported as the system could allow, but no public figure would ever have been asked the question, "what is a woman", because the answer, "adult human female", is so obviously true.

But this is just the latest appropriation of the language. There are other examples and they poison the public discourse to the point where the Leader of the Opposition and potential Prime Minister says on public record that a woman can have a penis, though he can not possibly believe such a thing. Other pathetic politicians, trying to catch the wind, give forth similar rubbish.

They do so because they live in bubbles. They think such idiocy and infantile thinking are mainstream because it's what they say to each other. But it isn't. Almost everyone knows this, especially women.

As with the stop oil arseholes. Mostly middle class, often retired, always hypocritical, they consider debate a sell out. You either agree with everything they say or you are guilty of "hate". This lame, immature and tunneled thinking obviously applies to the police, who allow these fanatics to repeatedly and openly break the law. But try and protest IN FAVOUR, of oil and gas, which we will certainly need for at least the next sixty years, and you will be banged up within the hour.

The country, and Western Society is in the grip of forces we do not elect it seems. Country after country, commiting acts of economic self harm, and insisting they are doing the opposite. Black is white. Top is bottom. Bad is good.

Stalin knew what he was doing when he called his fellow Marxist, Trotsky a right winger. Any insult would do for a mortal enemy, even if it was blatantly incorrect.

Too long, I know. Just as well I'm not that regular a poster!

No,keep going mate. I agree with much of what you say. I feel as though I don't have a right to express my opinions any more,and free speech only applies to those who continue to pretend to be offended.

Snaggey · Jun 1, 2023

rowley said:
On the subject of Kathleen Stock, she is right according to proven, biological fact, accepted as so for millenia. She lost her job at Sussex University because she would not recant this basic truth. Cowardly and venal University authorities bowed down to an hysterical, deluded, wild eyed, brainwashed and noisy minority.

Many, women in England and Scotland have lost their jobs or have suffered heavily in other ways for holding to this obvious truth.

Was this even a subject for discussion just a few years ago?

Of course it wasn't. It was accepted that gender dysphoria was a very rare condition, which should be helped and supported as the system could allow, but no public figure would ever have been asked the question, "what is a woman", because the answer, "adult human female", is so obviously true.

But this is just the latest appropriation of the language. There are other examples and they poison the public discourse to the point where the Leader of the Opposition and potential Prime Minister says on public record that a woman can have a penis, though he can not possibly believe such a thing. Other pathetic politicians, trying to catch the wind, give forth similar rubbish.

They do so because they live in bubbles. They think such idiocy and infantile thinking are mainstream because it's what they say to each other. But it isn't. Almost everyone knows this, especially women.

As with the stop oil arseholes. Mostly middle class, often retired, always hypocritical, they consider debate a sell out. You either agree with everything they say or you are guilty of "hate". This lame, immature and tunneled thinking obviously applies to the police, who allow these fanatics to repeatedly and openly break the law. But try and protest IN FAVOUR, of oil and gas, which we will certainly need for at least the next sixty years, and you will be banged up within the hour.

The country, and Western Society is in the grip of forces we do not elect it seems. Country after country, commiting acts of economic self harm, and insisting they are doing the opposite. Black is white. Top is bottom. Bad is good.

Stalin knew what he was doing when he called his fellow Marxist, Trotsky a right winger. Any insult would do for a mortal enemy, even if it was blatantly incorrect.

Too long, I know. Just as well I'm not that regular a poster!

Bloody good post though.

Smug in Boots · Jun 1, 2023

rowley said:
On the subject of Kathleen Stock, she is right according to proven, biological fact, accepted as so for millenia. She lost her job at Sussex University because she would not recant this basic truth. Cowardly and venal University authorities bowed down to an hysterical, deluded, wild eyed, brainwashed and noisy minority.

Many, women in England and Scotland have lost their jobs or have suffered heavily in other ways for holding to this obvious truth.

Was this even a subject for discussion just a few years ago?

Of course it wasn't. It was accepted that gender dysphoria was a very rare condition, which should be helped and supported as the system could allow, but no public figure would ever have been asked the question, "what is a woman", because the answer, "adult human female", is so obviously true.

But this is just the latest appropriation of the language. There are other examples and they poison the public discourse to the point where the Leader of the Opposition and potential Prime Minister says on public record that a woman can have a penis, though he can not possibly believe such a thing. Other pathetic politicians, trying to catch the wind, give forth similar rubbish.

They do so because they live in bubbles. They think such idiocy and infantile thinking are mainstream because it's what they say to each other. But it isn't. Almost everyone knows this, especially women.

As with the stop oil arseholes. Mostly middle class, often retired, always hypocritical, they consider debate a sell out. You either agree with everything they say or you are guilty of "hate". This lame, immature and tunneled thinking obviously applies to the police, who allow these fanatics to repeatedly and openly break the law. But try and protest IN FAVOUR, of oil and gas, which we will certainly need for at least the next sixty years, and you will be banged up within the hour.

The country, and Western Society is in the grip of forces we do not elect it seems. Country after country, commiting acts of economic self harm, and insisting they are doing the opposite. Black is white. Top is bottom. Bad is good.

Stalin knew what he was doing when he called his fellow Marxist, Trotsky a right winger. Any insult would do for a mortal enemy, even if it was blatantly incorrect.

Too long, I know. Just as well I'm not that regular a poster!

Excellent post and some very good points, I'd agree with your general theme.

The majority of people don't protest or shout their opinions at everyone else, so those who 'hit the headlines' produce an unbalanced atmosphere.

Here's an example.

I posted about Gareth Thomas, on RTG, and simply said that I'd prefer a spokesman, for whatever cause it was, not to burst into tears during every interview as seemed the case. I dont believe it helps that cause and makes the issue all about the spokesman.

What I'd actually posted was totally ignored by a handful of hysterical 'shouters' who ranted about my 'homophobic rhetoric'. They relentlessly ignored all of my responses and shouted down anyone who said they could see my point, they gave up and left tge thread.

They repeatedly reported me to the point whereby the Mods issued a thread ban. My comments were removed at which point they were reposted, paraphrased and altered to make it look as if I'd posted sheer hatred and vitriol against gays. This became a 'forum fact' to the point whereby it's still repeated.

I couldn't care less but it illustrates your point perfectly ...

... some people who demand tolerance are often the least tolerant of others opinions.

Ozzymac · Jun 1, 2023

samwise_new said:
i honestly do not know what to make of it, while there are many who are truly stuck in the position where they know they are the wrong sex
.

My apologies for cutting half your post out but this is the part that i wanted to respond to.

In my opinion it's impossible to be "stuck in the wrong sex". The sex we are is what we're born into. Rather than saying "I'm not a male but a female" for example surely the correct wording would be "I was born a male but i wish i was female"?

Sexuality is given to us at birth, we don't have a choice. Thoughts develop as we grow up where we are able to consider other options. Simple facts are you are either born a male or a female. How you choose to identify does not change that fact. 40 years ago someone would cross dress, wear make up, be a tomboy. What's changed?

I respect everyones right to make their own choices but you can't change the chromosones you were born with

Daz · Jun 1, 2023

Smug in Boots said:
Just wondering ...

... how do all the 'just stop oil' protesters get to their demonstrations

Exactly.

Their actions are having the opposite effect to what they intend, in that they are making the public absolutely despise them. Destroying artwork etc is just moronic.

DH4 · Jun 1, 2023

A lot of the time these easily offended people are being offended on behalf of someone else who isn't actually offended

vic9 · Jun 1, 2023

Smug in Boots said:
Excellent post and some very good points, I'd agree with your general theme.

The majority of people don't protest or shout their opinions at everyone else, so those who 'hit the headlines' produce an unbalanced atmosphere.

Here's an example.

I posted about Gareth Thomas, on RTG, and simply said that I'd prefer a spokesman, for whatever cause it was, not to burst into tears during every interview as seemed the case. I dont believe it helps that cause and makes the issue all about the spokesman.

What I'd actually posted was totally ignored by a handful of hysterical 'shouters' who ranted about my 'homophobic rhetoric'. They relentlessly ignored all of my responses and shouted down anyone who said they could see my point, they gave up and left tge thread.

They repeatedly reported me to the point whereby the Mods issued a thread ban. My comments were removed at which point they were reposted, paraphrased and altered to make it look as if I'd posted sheer hatred and vitriol against gays. This became a 'forum fact' to the point whereby it's still repeated.

I couldn't care less but it illustrates your point perfectly ...

... some people who demand tolerance are often the least tolerant of others opinions.

samwise_new · Jun 1, 2023

Ozzymac said:
My apologies for cutting half your post out but this is the part that i wanted to respond to.

In my opinion it's impossible to be "stuck in the wrong sex". The sex we are is what we're born into. Rather than saying "I'm not a male but a female" for example surely the correct wording would be "I was born a male but i wish i was female"?

Sexuality is given to us at birth, we don't have a choice. Thoughts develop as we grow up where we are able to consider other options. Simple facts are you are either born a male or a female. How you choose to identify does not change that fact. 40 years ago someone would cross dress, wear make up, be a tomboy. What's changed?

I respect everyones right to make their own choices but you can't change the chromosones you were born with

i agree, but these days i get stuck on what words/terms/descriptions should be used without some complete snowflake jumping on the 'i feel so offended' bandwagon, i do make mistakes and get it wrong.

Pure River Slut · Jun 1, 2023

Smug in Boots said:
When people rioted in Cardiff because police dared to be on the same street as two people on a bike I instantly took against them ...

... 'Yeah im setting fire to my neighbours car in sympafy for Tyrone, its what he wudda wanted'.

Tossers.

I generally agree but i do think the social conditions people have to live in - security tags on cheese and butter, no heating, less support services like youth provision etc increases overall community tension. The reasons behind always have multiple factors. But aye - don’t buy your kids a motorbike they don’t get chased is also a simple calculation some fail to make.

Our right to peaceful protest ...

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