The General Football Thread

thereisonlyoneno7 said:

Personally I am not so sure.

The last 'golden generation' on paper to me was better - Beckham, Gerrard, Lampard, Terry, Rooney, Owen etc. However, they were like Man U now - great talent, but not a unit.

The current England team now IMO are more like Saints under Adkins - the sum of all parts made them good, with one or two stand out performers.

Agree though about the Adkins moment. We ditched him and got Mo Po in and the rest is history.

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Yeah that was THE golden generation that fell well short of what they were capable of mainly because they were not a team. This new generation is united, has the spirit and togetherness which is in no small part down to Southgate.

I do however think we are in the next golden generation now. We have the talent and should have won the Euros. If anything we have more depth now, albeit we are lacking a bit of top quality in certain areas. Mainly CB and GK and currently LB. Every top nation that we come up against, their managers talk of the depth of talent that England currently have and I just don't think Southgate has the ability to get the best out of it. We regularly play really dour safety first football under Southgate despite our main qualities being in our attacking players. Yes we have a lot of young players, but they already have a lot of experience at both club and international level. I think it's too late and maybe not even fair on Southgate to change things now. But IMO the WC should be his last tournament in charge. Like I've said previously I appreciate what Southgate has done for England but think if we are to push on and live up to our potential than we need to make the tough decision and move on.

tomw24 said:

Hmm, we'll have to agree to disagree there. We have some seriously talented players - Kane, Foden, Bellingham, Rice, Mount, Tomori, TAA. Sterling can blow hot and cold but his record speaks for itself. The good thing is a lot of the players are still years away from reaching their peak. England and Spain are probably the two countries best set up for future tournaments.

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The same I suppose can be said of Saints under Adkins - talented players but not at their peak - Lambert, Jay Rod, Lallana, Spiderman etc.

I do struggle though to see how a team with Terry at the back (dislike him as a person , but great player), Beckham, Gerrard, Lampard, Rooney and Owen didn't go on to win anything though.

RSS said:

Yeah that was THE golden generation that fell well short of what they were capable of mainly because they were not a team. This new generation is united, has the spirit and togetherness which is in no small part down to Southgate.

I do however think we are in the next golden generation now. We have the talent and should have won the Euros. If anything we have more depth now, albeit we are lacking a bit of top quality in certain areas. Mainly CB and GK and currently LB. Every top nation that we come up against, their managers talk of the depth of talent that England currently have and I just don't think Southgate has the ability to get the best out of it. We regularly play really dour safety first football under Southgate despite our main qualities being in our attacking players. Yes we have a lot of young players, but they already have a lot of experience at both club and international level. I think it's too late and maybe not even fair on Southgate to change things now. But IMO the WC should be his last tournament in charge. Like I've said previously I appreciate what Southgate has done for England but think if we are to push on and live up to our potential than we need to make the tough decision and move on.

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Agree on that. Let Southgate bow out with a World Cup Win and then he can stand down

[HASHTAG]#ICH[/HASHTAG]

Southgate is like turbo-Ralph. Odd selections and is even worse when it comes to in-game management and subs.

Lovely guy though.

Le Tissier's Laces said:

Southgate is like turbo-Ralph. Odd selections and is even worse when it comes to in-game management and subs.

Lovely guy though.

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Subs especially. Absolutely appalling when it comes to subs. Seems to utterly not trust anyone beyond about 13 players

thereisonlyoneno7 said:

The same I suppose can be said of Saints under Adkins - talented players but not at their peak - Lambert, Jay Rod, Lallana, Spiderman etc.

I do struggle though to see how a team with Terry at the back (dislike him as a person , but great player), Beckham, Gerrard, Lampard, Rooney and Owen didn't go on to win anything though.

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I do wonder about this “golden generation” and if they were really as good as Sky/media made out. This was just before the time where you could watch any league in real detail like you can now so I do wonder just how much was really known about players who played abroad, not just by your average fan but from pundits/English media in general.

Saintmagic said:

I do wonder about this “golden generation” and if they were really as good as Sky/media made out. This was just before the time where you could watch any league in real detail like you can now so I do wonder just how much was really known about players who played abroad, not just by your average fan but from pundits/English media in general.

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I suppose the litmus test to how good they are is which of the current players except for Kane would Uri Geller and the rest of the nation try to 'heal' if they broke a metatarsal just before the world cup

thereisonlyoneno7 said:

I suppose the litmus test to how good they are is which of the current players except for Kane would Uri Geller and the rest of the nation try to 'heal' if they broke a metatarsal just before the world cup

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I’m not disputing that the media/fans thought we were the bestest team around at that time, more were we ACTUALLY the best team around. I seem to remember the German media used to take the piss out of the English for thinking the team was really good when in reality the players were no better than other countries. Just an insular English thing where fans tended to only watch the English league and only saw players based abroad in Champs League.

Remember when your average fan thought Ibra was **** because he played poorly in like 5 games against English teams. Couldn’t do it in the Prem, is no Darren Bent etc

RSS said:

Gareth Southgate is a bit of a polarising manager for England. Would be interested to see what the consensus among this board is in terms of In Vs Out. Can we have a poll on the England manager on here?
My opinion is that while he's done an amazing job in terms of squad unity and man management, he should be getting to finals AND winning things with this squad of players. He's too limited and defensive minded of a manager for me and I don't think we'll win anything under his stewardship. I think we are at a bit of an Adkins moment with Southgate and need to make the tough decision to push forward despite the great things he's done for us. No guarentee we'd win anything under a different manager of course, or that we won't under Southgate, but thats the risk you take. I see England with this quality squad of players being at a cross roads though and the right manager could be the difference between being another golden generation turned bronze or one that can finally live up to their potential.

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Spot on

We have a fantastic squad of players, but there are half a dozen other national teams who are level with us in quality. So I wouldn't say we should be necessarily winning things. Which of our players genuinely walks into the teams of other top nations? Sterling, Rice, Kane. That's about it. Sure we have loads of players who are incredible week in/week out at club level, but Premier League football and international football are two completely different beasts. Despite always having fantastic players, England have never been able to adjust. The Euros last year was our best in recent memory, not just because reached the final, but because we had an identity and a game plan, and we dictated games for once. We were like 90's Germany. Southgate and his coaching team can take the credit for that.

I like Southgate because he is trying to create a team, rather than just a throwing together a group of individuals who are chosen based on their current league form. The tabloid press - and most fans - don't seem to understand this. They see Maguire playing badly for Utd, and think that means he needs to be dropped for England, despite never really having put a foot wrong at international level. I remember all the criticism Sterling was getting not too long ago, and the calls for him to be dropped. Southgate stuck with him and now he's our best player.

Unless Pep or Klopp are eager for the job, I don't think there are many others out there who could do as well as Gareth is doing.

Che’s Godlike Thighs said:

We have a fantastic squad of players, but there are half a dozen other national teams who are level with us in quality. So I wouldn't say we should be necessarily winning things. Which of our players genuinely walks into the teams of other top nations? Sterling, Rice, Kane. That's about it. Sure we have loads of players who are incredible week in/week out at club level, but Premier League football and international football are two completely different beasts. Despite always having fantastic players, England have never been able to adjust. The Euros last year was our best in recent memory, not just because reached the final, but because we had an identity and a game plan, and we dictated games for once. We were like 90's Germany. Southgate and his coaching team can take the credit for that.

I like Southgate because he is trying to create a team, rather than just a throwing together a group of individuals who are chosen based on their current league form. The tabloid press - and most fans - don't seem to understand this. They see Maguire playing badly for Utd, and think that means he needs to be dropped for England, despite never really having put a foot wrong at international level. I remember all the criticism Sterling was getting not too long ago, and the calls for him to be dropped. Southgate stuck with him and now he's our best player.

Unless Pep or Klopp are eager for the job, I don't think there are many others out there who could do as well as Gareth is doing.

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Foden walks into any team in the world, club or country.

tomw24 said:

Foden walks into any team in the world, club or country.

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Come off it. What’s he done at international level? He hasn’t even earned the right to be an automatic starter for England yet.

Che’s Godlike Thighs said:

Come off it. What’s he done at international level? He hasn’t even earned the right to be an automatic starter for England yet.

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Are you kidding? He's probably England's most gifted footballer since Gascoigne. And he's only 21. He's had a storming season for City.

tomw24 said:

Are you kidding? He's probably England's most gifted footballer since Gascoigne. And he's only 21. He's had a storming season for City.

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Plenty of examples down the years of players who were incredible for their clubs but couldn’t do it at international level. John Barnes in particular springs to mind. He was considered as highly as Foden, back in the day. Rooney never really delivered in tournament football either, apart from when he was 18.

Not saying Foden isn’t class. And hopefully he will have a great England future. But he isn’t quite there yet. Needs to step up at the World Cup.

We've got more depth than the Sven era side but think the first team were far better then. Especially in CM and at CB - our third choice CB back then would comfortably be our best now.

And this is where the issues lie as they're the two most important positions on the pitch imo. Stick a Chiellieni/Bonucci in our team last Summer and we win that tournament with ease.

Don't buy this idea that we 'should be winning stuff'- no international side should be winning anything as there's hardly anything available to win and generally lots of competition.

I'd be staggered if we reach a semi again as it's very rare for a team to do so in 3 consecutive tournaments. Think we actually might struggle a bit climate wise with the quick turn around.

Libby said:

We've got more depth than the Sven era side but think the first team were far better then. Especially in CM and at CB - our third choice CB back then would comfortably be our best now.

And this is where the issues lie as they're the two most important positions on the pitch imo. Stick a Chiellieni/Bonucci in our team last Summer and we win that tournament with ease.

Don't buy this idea that we 'should be winning stuff'- no international side should be winning anything as there's hardly anything available to win and generally lots of competition.

I'd be staggered if we reach a semi again as it's very rare for a.team to do so in 3 consecutive tournaments. Think we actually might struggle.

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Individually the CMs were better. But if you remember that was the problem - they couldn’t play together in a four man midfield.

One was awkwardly crammed on the left. We also had no top left siders back then to actually make that an acceptable proposition. No one was going to tear their hair out at one of them playing instead of Stewart Downing

Libby said:

We've got more depth than the Sven era side but think the first team were far better then. Especially in CM and at CB - our third choice CB back then would comfortably be our best now.

And this is where the issues lie as they're the two most important positions on the pitch imo. Stick a Chiellieni/Bonucci in our team last Summer and we win that tournament with ease.

Don't buy this idea that we 'should be winning stuff'- no international side should be winning anything as there's hardly anything available to win and generally lots of competition.

I'd be staggered if we reach a semi again as it's very rare for a team to do so in 3 consecutive tournaments. Think we actually might struggle a bit climate wise with the quick turn around.

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To be fair Stones/Maguire both had an excellent tournament last year. Don’t think Bonucci/Chiellini would have done better. It was our attacking player that came up short, ultimately. Couldn’t create anything for large periods in too many of the games. If only we’d had a Chiesa on the right.

Agree with the rest though.

Che’s Godlike Thighs said:

To be fair Stones/Maguire both had an excellent tournament last year. Don’t think Bonucci/Chiellini would have done better. It was our attacking player that came up short, ultimately. Couldn’t create anything for large periods in too many of the games. If only we’d had a Chiesa on the right.

Agree with the rest though.

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Back to Southgate being too cautious?

Oh look. The French police have admitted that the 30-40k number from the CL final was basically a guess. Mightily convenient that the cctv footage (which could have proved/disproved their argument) from outside the ground has been deleted too.

Dem nasty Liverpool fans though.

Libby said:

Oh look. The French police have admitted that the 30-40k number from the CL final was basically a guess. Mightily convenient that the cctv footage (which could have proved/disproved their argument) from outside the ground has been deleted too.

Dem nasty Liverpool fans though.

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They’re definitely not my favourite team but the French have been total knobs here; police, politicians & FF.