Match Day Thread Premier League, Cups & Euro Watch

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carlthejackal said:
The owners of PSG and City have a corporate and political strategy delivered through the success of their football clubs. So this financial doping which is really what it is is worthwhile for them. For these governmental bodies these clubs are pure marketing and the success is reflected in the political success of the rulers.

So in financial terms we have fish living in a pool but 2 or 3 of those are sharks. That is it is an uneven playing field when any player can be acquired by these clubs (without FFP in place) if price is no object. In a way I'm really happy that we managed to get VVD and Allison. Make no mistake we would not have had a look in if City and PSG had been interested in them.

FFP is important to keep the competition alive and exciting. Was the procession last season with City winning by 100 points and 20 points ahead not boring? The league in Scotland is extremely boring because no one except Celtic are playing for the title. Soon it will be City and everyone playing for CL places. I fear that this year will have been an exception to that rule.
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theres EU rules to stop it happening. You are right though but you can add real and barca to the list as well... and maybe cheslea... if vvd and alisson were really offered 300k per week to join those 4 or 5 clubs i doubt they'd be at anfield this year.
 
one quick comment re city

2018/19 Manchester city
2017/18 Manchester City
2016/17 Chelsea
2015/16 Leicester City
2014/15 Chelsea
2013/14 Manchester City
2012/13 Manchester United
2011/12 Manchester City
2010/11 Manchester United
2009/10 Chelsea
2008/09 Manchester United
2007/08 Manchester United
2006/07 Manchester United
2005/06 Chelsea
2004/05 Chelsea
2003/04 Arsenal
2002/03 Manchester United
2001/02 Arsenal
2000/01 Manchester United
1999/00 Manchester United
1998/99 Manchester United
1997/98 Arsenal
1996/97 Manchester United
1995/96 Manchester United
1994/95 Blackburn Rovers (big money backing)
1993/94 Manchester United
1992/93 Manchester United

tuis is just my opinion but even if we then go back another 20 years you'd find similar story.

Utd dominated early prem years, only a couple of "shocks" including arsenal. then big money came in with ambramvich and the worm turned but it took a while cos ambramovich was a mad **** who sacked good managers madly but before long up pops an even bigger shark and bit off cheslea's head.

Just cos city won in a canter and have a lot of money doesnt mean the likes of Leicester can never happen.

the utd era is over. the city era has begun.... but.... sustaining that each and every year is unrealistic


If we look at the spanish league where two mega clubs bash into each other

2017-18 FC Barcelona
2016–17 Real Madrid
2015–16 FC Barcelona
2014–15 FC Barcelona
2013–14 Atlético Madrid
2012–13 FC Barcelona
2011–12 Real Madrid
2010–11 FC Barcelona
2009–10 FC Barcelona
2008–09 FC Barcelona
2007–08 Real Madrid
2006–07 Real Madrid

Barca are not all dominant. Real madrdi have even one a title or two over past 10 years. Even once atletico broke them both.


the point is this............ city won't just dominate, won't get every transfer right and guardiola won't manage them forever, kompany aguero, silva and fernandiinho won't last much longer.

Inevitably that 100 points level will drop back. Its just a matter of where and when and who is there to take advantage
 
saintKlopp said:
PL
CL
FA Cup
League Cup

Super Cup, like the Charity Shield is all very nice and all to put in your trophy cabinet, but is a meaningless show-piece event and not a serious competition.
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Completely unfair talking about the Community Shield and the Super Cup as the same.

You don't even need to win anything to get into the Community Shield. In fact in 1971, Leicester played against Liverpool just because Arsenal who won the double wanted to go on [HASHTAG]#preseason[/HASHTAG] tour instead.

To play the Super Cup you need to have won either the CL or EL, which means beating CL teams either way.
 
astro said:
Completely unfair talking about the Community Shield and the Super Cup as the same.

You don't even need to win anything to get into the Community Shield. In fact in 1971, Leicester played against Liverpool just because Arsenal who won the double wanted to go on [HASHTAG]#preseason[/HASHTAG] tour instead.

To play the Super Cup you need to have won either the CL or EL, which means beating CL teams either way.
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in theory one day new.york city could meet man city in the world.club championship...in theory.
 
moreinjuredthanowen said:
theres EU rules to stop it happening. You are right though but you can add real and barca to the list as well... and maybe cheslea... if vvd and alisson were really offered 300k per week to join those 4 or 5 clubs i doubt they'd be at anfield this year.
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I can see how the fans/punters will be totally disinterested in the title winners (assumed tobe City) and focus all their attention and interest in the battle for Cl (2, 3rd and 4th) and Europa places and relegation. City winning everything in a canter could be a negative for them in the longer term. That tight finish could have been the best thing that could have happened for them <doh>
 
carlthejackal said:
I can see how the fans/punters will be totally disinterested in the title winners (assumed tobe City) and focus all their attention and interest in the battle for Cl (2, 3rd and 4th) and Europa places and relegation. City winning everything in a canter could be a negative for them in the longer term. That tight finish could have been the best thing that could have happened for them <doh>
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From what I can tell the english legue has been largely dominated by 3 teams over past 20 years with the odd other team (mostly arsenal) thrown in. Its been a spend fest... so whats really changed mate? First utd for a long time then arsenal came at them with two separate teams years apart then cheslea were seen off by utd then city then city faded and cheslea came back and now its city in ascendancy.

Spain has been barca and real for 20 years with just the one title in the last 10 years not going to them and then another major 10 year gap back to rafa's valencia... and always has it been thus... its only getting worse there too

And italy is worse 8 juve in a row!. then it was inter before that.. but again its got way worse.

Holland... al lot of ajx and psv but SOMe other teams winning things

France 6 of last 7.. will by 7 of 8 are PSG. frankly the one win was a miracle and it was tron apart by sharks... not least PSG itself.

Germany 6 in a row and prob 7 by bayern with 2 dortmund wins by klopp


like....... this has been going on for years upon years. teams like arsenal have been quite happy to be 4th for years upon years
 
question:

would you rather

a) 2nd and 97 points with CL final
or
b) 3rd or 4th on 75 points and an FA cup run to final and a CL final?

just wondering at this point looking back.
 
...
moreinjuredthanowen said:
question:

would you rather

a) 2nd and 97 points with CL final
or
b) 3rd or 4th on 75 points and an FA cup run to final and a CL final?

just wondering at this point looking back.
Click to expand...
You are wondering about the path of least regret;)

I think most people would say a). But I would also say it depends on the outcome . If we get 2 trophies including a CL and an FAC surely that's better than potentially one. 97 points and second was a great run but if you look at it coldly the outcome is no better than 3 or 4. There is no extra benefit in coming 2nd than 4th apart from some extra cash.
 
carlthejackal said:
...

You are wondering about the path of least regret;)

I think most people would say a). But I would also say it depends on the outcome . If we get 2 trophies including a CL and an FAC surely that's better than potentially one. 97 points and second was a great run but if you look at it coldly the outcome is no better than 3 or 4. There is no extra benefit in coming 2nd than 4th apart from some extra cash.
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True. It'd have to be a losing fa cup final for all things to be equal I suppose
 
rip said:
Think we have discussed this before in this board

I think you should be wanting to win any comp you are in.
However I do understand that generally most teams cannot compete on 4 levels.
I genuinely can’t believe no one has put in the world club in
The usual argument for - to win the league is bread and butter and you have to be consistent over 38 games - where as the cups you can be lucky I think is incorrect because people forget about the pre requisites to qualify.
I would love to win the World Club - it means we had to perform well in the league initially- then we had to perform well in the CL. Then finally we had to play well in World Club. This spans over three seasons so shows your club is performing consistently.
I also think the targets can move (particularly if you get eliminated lmao)
But for example for us the PL is the holy grail and it is the trophy we are desperate to win

But for me the CL is the best comp to win - for a really crap reason
I love being involved in the Last game of the season just to extend it so - personally it is CL top of list - even if we had won it last season

City can claim they were only bothered about being first team to retain but the CL is what their hierarchy crave as they want to be the best in Europe not just England.

That is just my opinion :)

PL/CL
WORLD CLUB
SUPER CUP
FA CUP
EUROPA
COMMUNITY SHIELD/LEAGUE CUP

But I would want to win them all :)
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Interesting, good points and I agree you should be looking to win every competition. That doesn't mean you play your best 11 in the first round of the League Cup, but you should be putting out a team capable of beating the opposition you are facing at any particular stage.

The original question was which is the biggest competition? So I don't think any of us should base it on personal preference because we'll get an unlimited number of different personal preferences. I believe it should be how the majority of fans from different "tiers" of clubs would measure success? Hear me out for a minute...

(Assuming The European Cup and CL are the same thing)

Top tier imo will always be most League titles first and then CL then FA Cups then Europy e.g. in now particular order clubs like United, Liverpool, Arsenal.

2nd tier - Chelsea, City, Everton, Aston Villa because they're next highest with number of league titles, then the number of European Cup/CL, then FA Cups then Europy.

Then at some point we get to the tier where clubs DON'T have League titles and won't have The European Cup. So how do they measure success? I bet you anything most would look at number of FA Cups first.

The other reason why I don't believe The European Cup/CL shouldn't be above The League title is because that would stick Arsenal below Aston Villa and Nottingham Forest. Clearly that can't be right for a club that's won 13 league titles compared to a club that's won half the number of League titles and another that's only won 1 league title.

It gets a bit tricky when you get to UEFA Cup. You could say a club that's won 4 FA Cups and 1 UEFA Cup is more successful than a club that's won 5 FA Cups. But then you could reverse that and say a club that's won 4 UEFA Cups and 1 FA Cup is more successful than a club that's won 5 UEFA Cups? So for me it comes down to which cup most clubs would regard as having greater prestige for winning it. And imo that would be the FA Cup simply because of its history and prestige in club football in this country.
 
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Treble said:
Interesting, good points and I agree you should be looking to win every competition. That doesn't mean you play your best 11 in the first round of the League Cup, but you should be putting out a team capable of beating the opposition you are facing at any particular stage.

The original question was which is the biggest competition? So I don't think any of us should base it on personal preference because we'll get an unlimited number of different personal preferences. I believe it should be how the majority of fans from different "tiers" of clubs would measure success? Hear me out for a minute...

(Assuming The European Cup and CL are the same thing)

Top tier imo will always be most League titles first and then CL then FA Cups then Europy e.g. in now particular order clubs like United, Liverpool, Arsenal.

2nd tier - Chelsea, City, Everton, Aston Villa because they're next highest with number of league titles, then the number of European Cup/CL, then FA Cups then Europy.

Then at some point we get to the tier where clubs DON'T have League titles and won't have The European Cup. So how do they measure success? I bet you anything most would look at number of FA Cups first.

The other reason why I don't believe The European Cup/CL shouldn't be above The League title is because that would stick Arsenal below Aston Villa and Nottingham Forest. Clearly that can't be right for a club that's won 13 league titles compared to a club that's won half the number of League titles and another that's only won 1 league title.

It gets a bit tricky when you get to UEFA Cup. You could say a club that's won 4 FA Cups and 1 UEFA Cup is more successful than a club that's won 5 FA Cups. But then you could reverse that and say a club that's won 4 UEFA Cups and 1 FA Cup is more successful than a club that's won 5 UEFA Cups? So for me it comes down to which cup most clubs would regard as having greater prestige for winning it. And imo that would be the FA Cup simply because of its history and prestige in club football in this country.
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Right up until you stop being insular and realise the fa cup isn't all that to the rest of the planet cos we've killed it.

I'd say Nobody in Asia gives a crap due the time its on in middle of their night
 
moreinjuredthanowen said:
Right up until you stop being insular and realise the fa cup isn't all that to the rest of the planet cos we've killed it.

I'd say Nobody in Asia gives a crap due the time its on in middle of their night
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It's an impossible question if you open it up to the whole world because there are far too many variables.

I've stated all along I'm looking at it for clubs in this country. There's plenty to consider there whether you're Liverpool or Sunderland which is what I've posted about.
 
I actually prefer the league cup these days. There is less dross and Its put midweek win or bust right there and then and if you do well you are in a final by February.
 
Treble said:
Interesting, good points and I agree you should be looking to win every competition. That doesn't mean you play your best 11 in the first round of the League Cup, but you should be putting out a team capable of beating the opposition you are facing at any particular stage.

The original question was which is the biggest competition? So I don't think any of us should base it on personal preference because we'll get an unlimited number of different personal preferences. I believe it should be how the majority of fans from different "tiers" of clubs would measure success? Hear me out for a minute...

(Assuming The European Cup and CL are the same thing)

Top tier imo will always be most League titles first and then CL then FA Cups then Europy e.g. in now particular order clubs like United, Liverpool, Arsenal.

2nd tier - Chelsea, City, Everton, Aston Villa because they're next highest with number of league titles, then the number of European Cup/CL, then FA Cups then Europy.

Then at some point we get to the tier where clubs DON'T have League titles and won't have The European Cup. So how do they measure success? I bet you anything most would look at number of FA Cups first.

The other reason why I don't believe The European Cup/CL shouldn't be above The League title is because that would stick Arsenal below Aston Villa and Nottingham Forest. Clearly that can't be right for a club that's won 13 league titles compared to a club that's won half the number of League titles and another that's only won 1 league title.

It gets a bit tricky when you get to UEFA Cup. You could say a club that's won 4 FA Cups and 1 UEFA Cup is more successful than a club that's won 5 FA Cups. But then you could reverse that and say a club that's won 4 UEFA Cups and 1 FA Cup is more successful than a club that's won 5 UEFA Cups? So for me it comes down to which cup most clubs would regard as having greater prestige for winning it. And imo that would be the FA Cup simply because of its history and prestige in club football in this country.
Click to expand...

So complicated. If you want an idea of how successful a club has been over a longer term, such as 10 years in this case, just look here:

https://www.uefa.com/memberassociations/uefarankings/revenue/
 
Treble said:
Doesn't tell us order of importance of cups - or how they perceive them to be important.

UEFA coefficients :emoticon-0136-giggl
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CL is most important. So first look at this table.

If you don't find your club, it's crap and you can start squabling over number of cups with other supporters of [HASHTAG]#nomarks[/HASHTAG]
 
moreinjuredthanowen said:
question:

would you rather

a) 2nd and 97 points with CL final
or
b) 3rd or 4th on 75 points and an FA cup run to final and a CL final?

just wondering at this point looking back.
Click to expand...

I’d take 2 trophies and 4th over 1 trophy and 2nd. Anyone who says otherwise is just lying.
 
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jenners04 said:
Fa cup league cup and 4th or champions league and 2nd behave!!
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That wasn’t the option? It was 4th and fa cup and CL or 2nd with 97 points and CL.

Obviously is tather wint the league or CL over the league cup and fa cup
 
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