Off Topic The Politics Thread

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Should the UK remain a part of the EU or leave?

  • Stay in

    Votes: 56 47.9%

  • Get out

    Votes: 61 52.1%
  • Total voters
    117
  • Poll closed .
ELLERS said:
This 'tosh' as you call it is exactly what is happening.
The will of the people is being taken away from them because of a load of undemocratic people who do not like a fair result.
We had an in/out referendum and the result was 'out'. We should have all accepted it and supported it. Yet for months the result has been eroded. I have seen every last-ditch attempts to derail the process, even more project fear and threats from the EU and the enemy within.
I hope for the sake of the country that the government abide by the result and get out of that mafia run EU. If they don't there will be big problems in our country.
Now is the best time to get out of this sinking ship they call the EU. Let's get out before it falls. Which by the way it will.
Click to expand...

I got my answer. You do believe this tosh you spouted earlier. And tosh is what it is...

The 52% represents 37% of the country, approx 17 million. That's not "the people", but a significant segment, for sure, and Leave certainly had more votes than Remain. Calling it a fair result when it's clear there was so much illegality in the way campaigns were run is a bit odd, though. However, I doubt you'd want to see it rerun fairly, as you might not get the same result, and you don't seem to care about where the money came from or why it arrived and who really benefits from us leaving as long as you get what you want. FWIW, I don't want another referendum, either. I want the government to do their job as our elected representatives and act in the best interests of the country.

I'm currently reading a book about the Berlin Wall. It started by explaining the politics behind the growth of Berlin, and the different authoritarian governments that Berliners suffered from the mid 1800s onward. You'd be amazed how often undemocratic political parties required the population to support the latest power grab by saying it was the duty of the people to fall into line and support the new bosses as they valiantly fought against the enemy within. In effect, they blurred things so the state and the party became the country in their eyes and failing to support the party was treasonous. Ring any bells?

I dispute that Mrs May has sabotaged Brexit. Yes, she's incompetent, but she's had plenty of interference and little help. For me, it's the jockeying for position of certain Brexiteers that have made things hard for Mrs May. As if a decent Brexit wasn't hard enough. But, like the Nazis in the 30s and the DDR in the 60s, the narrative has become "blame someone else” and hope the public swallows it. You seem to have done, and it's tosh - hence my comment.

We already have big problems in this country, and swallowing the lies about who's fault it is makes them worse. Most of our problems are of our own making and the solution was and is within our own control.

You may be right in your predictions about the EU. We'll find out. The trick is to make sure we don't bankrupt the country as we leave. I've yet to hear a coherent plan for leaving which addresses that risk.

Enjoy your holiday. We'll still be here when you come back and very little will have changed...
 
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ELLERS said:
It's just lost it's biggest net contributor. I will be losing it's third in the future. Mass immigration, mass rise in nationalism (Euroscepticism). Desperately rushing around making free trade deals. Even the French president says it needs major reforms to survive.
An think it's getting stronger.......<laugh>
<doh>
Click to expand...

I have no idea where you get your info but I don’t agree it’s carry’s any weight

As a fellow Englishman I suggest you focus on the job in hand why worry about the EU

The French president will always change as soon as he over steps the mark The people run France
 
Just switched on Sky News to have a look

Well I understand now what the fuss is about

Is this Project Fear?

Smells like a powerful media campaign to me. The polls look overwhelming but the question is: Is this all theatre?

I would think a No Deal has to be avoided at all costs. The pressure is ramping up

I only know that I have submitted record charges to my accounts as companies have all prepared to leave the U.K. I can only state the facts I know and the company I work for has the design/marketing monopoly in the financial sector not only in the U.K. but worldwide.

Business is running this project fear imo

It’s public now about House of Fraser ... there are more to come much more
 
TheBigDipper said:
I got my answer. You do believe this tosh you spouted earlier. And tosh is what it is...

The 52% represents 37% of the country, approx 17 million. That's not "the people", but a significant segment, for sure, and Leave certainly had more votes than Remain. Calling it a fair result when it's clear there was so much illegality in the way campaigns were run is a bit odd, though. However, I doubt you'd want to see it rerun fairly, as you might not get the same result, and you don't seem to care about where the money came from or why it arrived and who really benefits from us leaving as long as you get what you want. FWIW, I don't want another referendum, either. I want the government to do their job as our elected representatives and act in the best interests of the country.

I'm currently reading a book about the Berlin Wall. It started by explaining the politics behind the growth of Berlin, and the different authoritarian governments that Berliners suffered from the mid 1800s onward. You'd be amazed how often undemocratic political parties required the population to support the latest power grab by saying it was the duty of the people to fall into line and support the new bosses as they valiantly fought against the enemy within. In effect, they blurred things so the state and the party became the country in their eyes and failing to support the party was treasonous. Ring any bells?

I dispute that Mrs May has sabotaged Brexit. Yes, she's incompetent, but she's had plenty of interference and little help. For me, it's the jockeying for position of certain Brexiteers that have made things hard for Mrs May. As if a decent Brexit wasn't hard enough. But, like the Nazis in the 30s and the DDR in the 60s, the narrative has become "blame someone else” and hope the public swallows it. You seem to have done, and it's tosh - hence my comment.

We already have big problems in this country, and swallowing the lies about who's fault it is makes them worse. Most of our problems are of our own making and the solution was and is within our own control.

You may be right in your predictions about the EU. We'll find out. The trick is to make sure we don't bankrupt the country as we leave. I've yet to hear a coherent plan for leaving which addresses that risk.

Enjoy your holiday. We'll still be here when you come back and very little will have changed...
Click to expand...
Do you know what is ironic about your statement...You mention the Nazis and DDR...I think that is Germany you are talking about and you want us to be part of their new vision? <doh>
Bloody hell I might have had a few vino's tonight but did I just read this?

On another note what book are you reading as it sounds interesting? :emoticon-0148-yes:
 
DT’s Socks said:
I have no idea where you get your info but I don’t agree it’s carry’s any weight

As a fellow Englishman I suggest you focus on the job in hand why worry about the EU

The French president will always change as soon as he over steps the mark The people run France
Click to expand...
This is where you fail odd one.
 
UK trains are the envy of Europe according to the U.K. rail boss

This flashed up on my phone this morning
Is this a fight back against project fear?

Just need the NHS, our new smart motorways, our wonderful airports and of course we invented football to get the whole set .

Make Britain great again
Forget Scotland Wales and NI
 
ELLERS said:
Do you know what is ironic about your statement...You mention the Nazis and DDR...I think that is Germany you are talking about and you want us to be part of their new vision? <doh>
Bloody hell I might have had a few vino's tonight but did I just read this?

On another note what book are you reading as it sounds interesting? :emoticon-0148-yes:
Click to expand...

There's nothing ironic about my post. I'm not saying the opposite of what I mean for effect. The Nazis and the DDR (East German government) were authoritarian and they did generate a climate of blaming anyone but themselves for problems they generated for one reason or another as a side effect of their power grabs. That is exactly what is happening with the popular narratives surrounding Brexit and the current UK government.

The Remain MPs in government aren't trying to sabotage Brexit. They're trying to marry the political directive to leave against the economic challenge of keeping the country solvent and not crucifying our economy. Some Leave members don't appear to care about the economic challenge. In fact, some have taken steps with their businesses and their financial investment clients to mitigate against the damage they expect it to cause. They're using it for a power grab and personal advancement. Pushing through the political directive in a brutal way will generate an environment that - as history shows us - might enable them to grab the levers of power in government without balanced scrutiny from the country. All the while blaming phantom 'saboteurs and traitors' - the non-existent "enemy from within". Tosh, in other words.

The book is "The Berlin Wall" by Frederick Taylor. I went to Berlin last month and found it fascinating. I wish I'd read this first, as it would have added to the experience.
 
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TheBigDipper said:
There's nothing ironic about my post. I'm not saying the opposite of what I mean for effect. The Nazis and the DDR (East German government) were authoritarian and they did generate a climate of blaming anyone but themselves for problems they generated for one reason or another as a side effect of their power grabs. That is exactly what is happening with the popular narratives surrounding Brexit and the current UK government.

The Remain MPs in government aren't trying to sabotage Brexit. They're trying to marry the political directive to leave against the economic challenge of keeping the country solvent and not crucifying our economy. Some Leave members don't appear to care about the economic challenge. In fact, some have taken steps with their businesses and their financial investment clients to mitigate against the damage they expect it to cause. They're using it for a power grab and personal advancement. Pushing through the political directive in a brutal way will generate an environment that - as history shows us - might enable them to grab the levers of power in government without balanced scrutiny from the country. All the while blaming phantom 'saboteurs and traitors' - the non-existent "enemy from within". Tosh, in other words.

The book is "The Berlin Wall" by Frederick Taylor. I went to Berlin last month and found it fascinating. I wish I'd read this first, as it would have added to the experience.
Click to expand...
Neither are the Remain Tories out of government as when it comes to matter they invariably fail to follow the Whip in sufficient numbers and we therefore muddle along with the votes of a few others who disobey the Labour Whip with impunity. Funny how discipline is enforced in the Labour party. Speak out against the leadership about anti-Semitism in the Labour party and they bring charges against you. Vote against the Party line on Europe, what exactly does happen to those turncoats? Sorry I meant proponents of their own right to vote with their conscience.
 
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DT’s Socks said:
UK trains are the envy of Europe according to the U.K. rail boss

This flashed up on my phone this morning
Is this a fight back against project fear?

Just need the NHS, our new smart motorways, our wonderful airports and of course we invented football to get the whole set .

Make Britain great again
Forget Scotland Wales and NI
Click to expand...
Is the heat causing a crisis in the nhs
The cold seems to every year
Would mild weather cause a crisis
 
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DT’s Socks said:
UK trains are the envy of Europe according to the U.K. rail boss

This flashed up on my phone this morning
Is this a fight back against project fear?

Just need the NHS, our new smart motorways, our wonderful airports and of course we invented football to get the whole set .

Make Britain great again
Forget Scotland Wales and NI
Click to expand...
You just seem to pop up and bash England. We all know you live in France fella but if life is so good why keep returning and bashing the UK? The trains in the UK are mostly crap but there are many things in the UK that are fab. Move on odd one.
 
TheBigDipper said:
There's nothing ironic about my post. I'm not saying the opposite of what I mean for effect. The Nazis and the DDR (East German government) were authoritarian and they did generate a climate of blaming anyone but themselves for problems they generated for one reason or another as a side effect of their power grabs.
Click to expand...
You mean like the EU does now?

TheBigDipper said:
The Remain MPs in government aren't trying to sabotage Brexit. They're trying to marry the political directive to leave against the economic challenge of keeping the country solvent and not crucifying our economy. Some Leave members don't appear to care about the economic challenge. In fact, some have taken steps with their businesses and their financial investment clients to mitigate against the damage they expect it to cause. They're using it for a power grab and personal advancement. Pushing through the political directive in a brutal way will generate an environment that - as history shows us - might enable them to grab the levers of power in government without balanced scrutiny from the country. All the while blaming phantom 'saboteurs and traitors' - the non-existent "enemy from within". Tosh, in other words.
The book is "The Berlin Wall" by Frederick Taylor. I went to Berlin last month and found it fascinating. I wish I'd read this first, as it would have added to the experience.
Click to expand...
Says you. Look you seem influenced by your new book. I hope you didn't buy a bit of the Berlin Wall that they sell to tourists? it's fake like the EU. :1980_boogie_down:
 
ELLERS said:
You mean like the EU does now?

Says you. Look you seem influenced by your new book. I hope you didn't buy a bit of the Berlin Wall that they sell to tourists? it's fake like the EU. :1980_boogie_down:
Click to expand...

Oh Ellers, it's not like you to jump to conclusions and try to find an unfounded easy insult as a substitute for a reasoned discussion with points that mean something.

(and that IS an example of using irony...)
 
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