Off Topic The Politics Thread

[DT’s Socks]

Average download speeds UK 16.7mbps
Average download speeds France 31.5mbps

Diesel per litre France v UK is equal on average (though if France is like UK it varies wildly within 5 miles)
Unleaded is about 10 cents € more expensive

Consumer prices in general are about 10% more expensive in France than UK. For two reasons - the £ has declined by far more than that v the € in the last two years, and inflation has happily not caught up, but it means your £ doesn’t go as far when you travel. That’s why things seem more expensive to you, to the French prices have stayed the same. Secondly French supermarkets don’t squeeze their suppliers quite as brutally as UK ones to make sure you get the cheapest possible food.

Though in Spain a couple of weeks ago a supermarket shop seemed a lot cheaper than the UK and the fresh produce was definitely much higher quality (Carrefour v Waitrose). You couldn’t get as much convenience bung in the oven/microwave processed food though. Which I view as a positive.

Your dining experience in France will be more varied than in UK as there are less chain restaurants. Personally I now find classic French food a bit too rich for regular eating, much prefer Italian which is of more consistent quality in non tourist areas as well.

So it seems you have a **** broadband supplier or live in a dodgy area, your price issues are down to exchange rates (And possibly where you are shopping) and dining out is pot luck.

I would add you take yourself with you wherever you go

I remember doing comparisons

I have a few English friends here in France and they have the habit of swapping places to eat things to see etc each time the reviews are OTT and expressed as wonderful or upbeat. I was recently taken to the best faux filet place in the world. It was awful a horrible cut of meat.

On the way back home to the horror of my guests i went into McDonalds all three refused to get out of the car

This i believe is because they are brainwashed into not liking the name.

The BigMac knocked the meal i haven't finished earlier into touch. I am now a Philistine and very proud of it

I say eat what you fancy if you want to know what you will get then make your own choice.

You can easily have the worse meal of your life in France.

Organics there's a complete subject in itself as is water.

I say explore you will find what you like in any country.

The satisfaction of producing your own food bypasses all the fluff surrounding the subject of what is good/bad cheap or expensive.

 

[DT’s Socks]

On that subject, does anyone remember the tv series Turn Back Time: The High Street on BBC a few years back? It followed the changing face of the High Street through a different decade each week.

Even though the people on the show knew how mass-retail and supermarket shopping had decimated small businesses and been a major part of the drive towards ever lower pricing, and even tough they were against such moves, they still couldn't fight against it.

What the solution is I don't know, but with the exponential growth of online shopping, I can only see it gaining ever more pace. Amazon has a lot to answer for, but only because they have probably been the most successful and innovative of the online supermarkets.

I'm not sure that anyone would honestly want a global collective marketing board setting minimum pricing for everything, but if you want an industry-led enforcement of pricing, that's really the only thing I can think of.

There is something we can do though, I reckon.

In much the same way that we look at stuff marked as FairTrade as being kinder to the supply chain, we can start demanding a far greater fairness level across the board, by opting to buy products that are known as fair to the supply chain. Yes it'll cost a bit more, but it'll send a message the only way the suppliers and supermarkets understand - people are more important than profit, communities are more important than cost-cutting.

It would be great to return to the times but not possible i fear Willy

Amazon for me i doubt if i could live without the service. I order something today and 9/10 Mr post in his little yellow van brings it to my door tomorrow. I would say however i have saved money by using Amazon UK and then a different account for Amazon FR .

I purchased a Festool tool a few weeks back and it was cheaper on the UK site by £145/160 Euros. The purchase from the UK arrived two days later from the Netherlands. Weird world. I buy a lot of things in Savers and Poundshop and post them to myself who in the UK so the principle of shopping for me is alive and well

I am not sure any of the current service we don't like can be reinvented .. it is what it is

I am lucky to enjoy regular markets in France once tradition the supermarkets will never compete with

 

[DT’s Socks]

May and her Remainer Civil Service are the pantomime, Strolls. WTO is the way forward, with proper preparation and no Project Fear 2. May could be toast by October. Boris could be in as a figurehead PM, and will need plenty of support.

Meanwhile, Corbyn has his work cut out. Labour MP's are openly calling him a racist. With his extreme views and terrorist sympathies, he really has attracted some unpleasant trolling types into that party. He doesn't control all they say, but he holds up the banner around which they gather.

I hope Corbyn gets the long term respect i believe he deserves ... well for a politician.
I hold stark views on how Israel conducts itself in the world. I worked for many years for Teva Pharmaceuticals in R&D on reflection I actually felt ashamed of who i was then. I actually have recently cashed in my final salary pension to break all ties with the industry i knew and Israel.

As we get older i believe we should all set our records straight if we can

I am no longer to accept our use of the word terrorist. I honestly believe that is the real project fear we all seem to bow to.

As for May/Corbyn etc seriously i believe anyone British should feel massively embarrassed with all politicians. I am no news junkie but while i have been away I have caught up via Sky News and each time it gets me more annoyed until that it i realised that was the idea.

 

[West London Willy]

It would be great to return to the times but not possible i fear Willy

Amazon for me i doubt if i could live without the service. I order something today and 9/10 Mr post in his little yellow van brings it to my door tomorrow. I would say however i have saved money by using Amazon UK and then a different account for Amazon FR .

I purchased a Festool tool a few weeks back and it was cheaper on the UK site by £145/160 Euros. The purchase from the UK arrived two days later from the Netherlands. Weird world. I buy a lot of things in Savers and Poundshop and post them to myself who in the UK so the principle of shopping for me is alive and well

I am not sure any of the current service we don't like can be reinvented .. it is what it is

I am lucky to enjoy regular markets in France once tradition the supermarkets will never compete with

No - I don't think we can - nor want - to go back to the old days.

The trick is in crafting the present and future into a commercial society that works for the entire chain. Which will be difficult when we have consumers screaming for every possible bargain, and corporations competing so strongly for market share as a result that they have forgotten their duty of care to their suppliers.

How we do that is difficult. I think that the first way to do so is to lessen the corporate power by exercising choice - even if that costs a little more in the long term. Understanding for example, that if you look to buy a pair of jeans for £15, that doesn't put enough money into the supply chain for everyone to be treated fairly. Having choice is great - but if you don't exercise it, then you get the rampant capitalism that is prevalent in the US, which is good for nobody but the corporates and puts all the power in their hands.

I know I cite the US a lot, but look at Pharma over there - it's ridiculous that choice has been taken away from consumers for the sake of profits. And there's so much money and power in their hands, that people are going bankrupt if they have an accident or illness - that's something that should never happen.

The way forward, if we can but get there, would seem to be far less corporate power, far fairer pricing and contracts, an appreciation that stuff costs money to make and ship, and an end to exploitation for the sake of greed and the pursuit of profit.

If only there was enough of a will to get there. And if only buying cheap stuff online wasn't so easy.

 

[DT’s Socks]

No - I don't think we can - nor want - to go back to the old days.

The trick is in crafting the present and future into a commercial society that works for the entire chain. Which will be difficult when we have consumers screaming for every possible bargain, and corporations competing so strongly for market share as a result that they have forgotten their duty of care to their suppliers.

How we do that is difficult. I think that the first way to do so is to lessen the corporate power by exercising choice - even if that costs a little more in the long term. Understanding for example, that if you look to buy a pair of jeans for £15, that doesn't put enough money into the supply chain for everyone to be treated fairly. Having choice is great - but if you don't exercise it, then you get the rampant capitalism that is prevalent in the US, which is good for nobody but the corporates and puts all the power in their hands.

I know I cite the US a lot, but look at Pharma over there - it's ridiculous that choice has been taken away from consumers for the sake of profits. And there's so much money and power in their hands, that people are going bankrupt if they have an accident or illness - that's something that should never happen.

The way forward, if we can but get there, would seem to be far less corporate power, far fairer pricing and contracts, an appreciation that stuff costs money to make and ship, and an end to exploitation for the sake of greed and the pursuit of profit.

If only there was enough of a will to get there. And if only buying cheap stuff online wasn't so easy.

Agree 100%

I cannot buy a pair of Levi jeans in France for under 100 euros whereas i can get three pairs for that in the UK albeit not in my preferred white.

I have always maintained we sold out without noticing it in the UK a long time back

It is beyond belief that for example:

Basic toiletries and OTC meds i use are sold in Poundland and Wilco for £1 at my location in the UK and both stores sit either side of Boots which sells them for 300% to 400% more.

Going forward on the above what stores are the consumers going to use? Bulk power buying will always win sad fact of life

We are now one big shop having followed the U.S model to a point of no return ... well having said that lets review that next year after Brexit

 

[Shawswood]

I make a point of supporting small local shops because otherwise all we’ll end up with is the big chains who sell all the average stuff based only on percentages and what’s easiest for them to sell.
It’s not easy though because apart from the fact that things are more expensive (but usually better) you have to deal with the owner and get into chitchat which is fine when you’re up for it but not when you’re tired irritable or in a hurry when I just duck into the supermarket to save trouble.

 

[ELLERS]

Do you really think this tosh?

This 'tosh' as you call it is exactly what is happening.
The will of the people is being taken away from them because of a load of undemocratic people who do not like a fair result.
We had an in/out referendum and the result was 'out'. We should have all accepted it and supported it. Yet for months the result has been eroded. I have seen every last-ditch attempts to derail the process, even more project fear and threats from the EU and the enemy within.
I hope for the sake of the country that the government abide by the result and get out of that mafia run EU. If they don't there will be big problems in our country.
Now is the best time to get out of this sinking ship they call the EU. Let's get out before it falls. Which by the way it will.

 

[sb_73]

This 'tosh' as you call it is exactly what is happening.
The will of the people is being taken away from them because of a load of undemocratic people who do not like a fair result.
We had an in/out referendum and the result was 'out'. We should have all accepted it and supported it. Yet for months the result has been eroded. I have seen every last-ditch attempts to derail the process, even more project fear and threats from the EU and the enemy within.
I hope for the sake of the country that the government abide by the result and get out of that mafia run EU. If they don't there will be big problems in our country.
Now is the best time to get out of this sinking ship they call the EU. Let's get out before it falls. Which by the way it will.

Serious question Ellers, what would your response be if we had a general election and a party or group of parties campaigned on keeping us in the EU, or taking us back in, and they won? I don’t think it’s going to happen because Corbyn is a Brexiter.

Have to say that there is a good chance that the European Parliament elections next year, after we have gone, are going to see a lot more horrible nationalists elected, as voters tend to think is not important and vote with their baser instincts.

 

[Stroller]

This 'tosh' as you call it is exactly what is happening.
The will of the people is being taken away from them because of a load of undemocratic people who do not like a fair result.
We had an in/out referendum and the result was 'out'. We should have all accepted it and supported it. Yet for months the result has been eroded. I have seen every last-ditch attempts to derail the process, even more project fear and threats from the EU and the enemy within.
I hope for the sake of the country that the government abide by the result and get out of that mafia run EU. If they don't there will be big problems in our country.
Now is the best time to get out of this sinking ship they call the EU. Let's get out before it falls. Which by the way it will.

What if 'the people' have changed their mind?

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

What if 'the people' have changed their mind?

Democracy finished on 23/6/16. Nothing else matters.

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

This 'tosh' as you call it is exactly what is happening.
The will of the people is being taken away from them because of a load of undemocratic people who do not like a fair result.
We had an in/out referendum and the result was 'out'. We should have all accepted it and supported it. Yet for months the result has been eroded. I have seen every last-ditch attempts to derail the process, even more project fear and threats from the EU and the enemy within.
I hope for the sake of the country that the government abide by the result and get out of that mafia run EU. If they don't there will be big problems in our country.
Now is the best time to get out of this sinking ship they call the EU. Let's get out before it falls. Which by the way it will.

What big problems? A big gammony road blockade?

 

[ELLERS]

Serious question Ellers, what would your response be if we had a general election and a party of group of parties campaigned on keeping us in the EU, or taking us back in, and they won? I don’t think it’s going to happen because Corbyn is a Brexiter.

Have to say that there is a good chance that the European Parliament elections next year, after we have gone, are going to see a lot more horrible nationalists elected, as voters tend to think is not important and vote with their baser instincts.

Bloody hell Sb spot on!
Hard one to call regarding an election, however that shouldn't change the result should it? I always thought the referendum would be separate to a new election. Correct me if I am wrong.
I have said for a long time that the EU would fall. My reason for this is because they won't adapt or change. This then brings unsavory groups to power and a breakdown in the machine.
Take Italy with 50% youth unemployment. What did the EU do to help.....Nothing. So 5 Star and NL get power. they will then cause problems (which they are doing) and then blame the EU. They will have a referendum and leave...that will collapse the EU. Austria 48% nationalists! Far right in France/Holland/Germany rising and now Sweden's far right are ahead in some of the polls. Why? because the EU won't listen. All they are interested in are big business for Germany and then France.
People go on about not understanding Brexit but how many understand the EU?
As for Corbyn he will never be PM especially with his unsavory stance on Jews. Who would vote for May again? I'm a Tory but I wouldn't vote for her. Liberals and Greens are weak muppets so that leaves either not voting or voting for someone else. If that means a Brexit party then many will vote for it especially if they get shafted over Brexit.
You said a while back that it was a mess. I now agree because the whole process is being undermined.

Tonight in a small village in France I will have a large glass of wine and wonder why after 2 years we are no nearer to leaving...or I probably won't give s22t and worry more about missing the QPR game on Saturday.

 

[rangercol]

What if 'the people' have changed their mind?

So are you in favour of having a referendum every time there is a shift in public opinion?

Oh and I'm not convinced the public have changed their minds. I just think they are sick and tired of the whole thing; the in-fighting; the lies; the incompetence; the relentless establishment led effort to overturn the referendum, a referendum that the same establishment said would be final and binding.
We voted to leave but we're all being shafted with such a soft brexit that many people are totally pissed off and just want it all to go away (which, of course is exactly what remain have been aiming for all along).

 

[ELLERS]

What if 'the people' have changed their mind?

Okay I get your point Stroller however the vote went ahead and it needs to be implemented first. If people then want back in at a later date (say 40 years) they can have another referendum. You cant have a vote and then say you don't like what you voted for.
If some have changed their minds it's only due to the balls up by May, the EU playing the usual game and people who couldn't accept a result.
I caught a headline (which by the way was abhorrent) about food shortages and when we leave the EU would stop sending stuff. Just think about for a second...The EU would stop send certain foods to the UK because we have left the organization. If that is not just a disgusting threat then what is? What are they the Mafia? TBH I wouldn't want to be in an organization that works like that.
Look how the EU has "adapted" in recent weeks? Free trade deal with Japan/US...Yet we are told it will take years for us from the people who we have worked with closely for 40 years...Muppets.

Do you know what else makes me laugh... We were told people should not be allowed to vote and make such a decision because they 'don't understand it'. Yet they are okay for another vote or voting in a General election?

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

So are you in favour of having a referendum every time there is a shift in public opinion?

Oh and I'm not convinced the public have changed their minds. I just think they are sick and tired of the whole thing; the in-fighting; the lies; the incompetence; the relentless establishment led effort to overturn the referendum, a referendum that the same establishment said would be final and binding.
We voted to leave but we're all being shafted with such a soft brexit that many people are totally pissed off and just want it all to go away (which, of course is exactly what remain have been aiming for all along).

We voted to leave. A soft Brexit would mean we’ve left. We didn’t vote for a hard or no deal Brexit.

 

[sb_73]

Bloody hell Sb spot on!
Hard one to call regarding an election, however that shouldn't change the result should it? I always thought the referendum would be separate to a new election. Correct me if I am wrong.
I have said for a long time that the EU would fall. My reason for this is because they won't adapt or change. This then brings unsavory groups to power and a breakdown in the machine.
Take Italy with 50% youth unemployment. What did the EU do to help.....Nothing. So 5 Star and NL get power. they will then cause problems (which they are doing) and then blame the EU. They will have a referendum and leave...that will collapse the EU. Austria 48% nationalists! Far right in France/Holland/Germany rising and now Sweden's far right are ahead in some of the polls. Why? because the EU won't listen. All they are interested in are big business for Germany and then France.
People go on about not understanding Brexit but how many understand the EU?
As for Corbyn he will never be PM especially with his unsavory stance on Jews. Who would vote for May again? I'm a Tory but I wouldn't vote for her. Liberals and Greens are weak muppets so that leaves either not voting or voting for someone else. If that means a Brexit party then many will vote for it especially if they get shafted over Brexit.
You said a while back that it was a mess. I now agree because the whole process is being undermined.

Tonight in a small village in France I will have a large glass of wine and wonder why after 2 years we are no nearer to leaving...or I probably won't give s22t and worry more about missing the QPR game on Saturday.

My advice is to enjoy your travels and stop thinking about this stuff. Go for the bottle of wine and get someone else to drive. I rarely compare places I visit to here because it’s because they are not here that makes them interesting and fun.

I notice your Wi-fi is on top form.

 

[ELLERS]

We voted to leave. A soft Brexit would mean we’ve left. We didn’t vote for a hard or no deal Brexit.

Agree but when the soft Brexit is not actually leaving then you need to question why? Simple answer is that May is a weak remainer and has sold out the people. She needs to go and if the EU continue playing up then keep the money and go on WTO. See how quickly they cave in.

 

[ELLERS]

I notice your Wi-fi is on top form.

you don't know what trouble I have had.

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

Agree but when the soft Brexit is not actually leaving then you need to question why? Simple answer is that May is a weak remainer and has sold out the people. She needs to go and if the EU continue playing up then keep the money and go on WTO. See how quickly they cave in.

Simple answer is that those paid to do the job know it’s the least painful option economically. I quite like money, personally.

 

[rangercol]

Simple answer is that those paid to do the job know it’s the least painful option economically. I quite like money, personally.

Agreed. Most people who put money first are remainers.