The EU debate - Part III

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The Zlatan said:
Go back and address what I said about your 'salient' point...

You won't, you know you're wrong, you just want the last word now.
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I've already addressed it in the post you replied to with waffle, as your selective editing in the post last night missed the salient point Adolf.

The ultimate 'salient point' is that you're a Nazi ****. <ok>
 
NowsufferinginSpain said:
Where have I guessed who will win an election? Or being a halfwit, do you just make it up as you go along?

I've made clear who I would like to see win, but made no predictions as to who would actually win.
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You voted remain and they lost
You did not want Trump to win and he won
You dont like Le Pen and she.....

Do you see where I am coming from :)
 
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PleaseNotPoll said:
He did better than I expected him to. He either got what he was asking for or reached a compromise on each point.
His detractors wanted a lot more than he was actually asking for and for the EU to just give him all of it.
Unrealistic expectations and not what he was after, either.

If Britain wanted to change aspects of the EU as a whole, then there are ways of going about that.
This wasn't one of them.
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He got nothing.
No cap on immigration, no deal on CAP, what he got was worse than nothing and then the other EU members had to agree for him to do it.
 
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Tobes said:
Oh look a strawman <doh>

The simple fact is that our EU single market access is vital to our economy, not only for tariff free trade, but also due to customs clearance, which in the World of 'just in time' deliveries is essential for efficiency and losing it would not only make our goods more expensive but also at a distinct disadvantage in the European market

Pointing at the US and saying look we trade with them, also avoids the point that most of our manufacturing industry is foreign owned and is based here in order to have access to the European market btw.

No free access means a massive downturn in Global business locating (or retaining their bases) here in the medium / long term.

I've asked you what those other options are, and you're still yet to tell me
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If there's a strawman, it's yours.

You've done your usual trick of taking a single item form a wider point, tried to make it about that and then insisting that yours is the only view and everyone else is foolish.


For all your words, you can't deny that there are other options, which was my claim. You also shouldn't be so certain that the deals within the EU won't alter.

Over and above that, it's been discussed several times, and even if we stay in the single market, and even if that means free access, there are still options available to limit the probability of getting flooded by EU citizens, to the detriment of the colonials that have done so much for us, as well as the other 90% of the world. Out of the EU, we can simply adjust our benefits system to be more in line with other member states, so that it's simply not attractive to come to our damp soggy island unless you can support yourself.
 
petersaxton said:
well seeing has you were saying the UK weren't doing much I wondered why the other countries hadn't reformed the EU already
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Disagreements about what needs to change and how it needs to be done, for the most part.
Crappy obstructionist MEPs, like the UKIP mob, haven't helped things, of course.
 
Watford_R said:
You claim to know nothing about them. Perhaps it's best to watch your own links or do some reading first. Pete's list will do.

Even when I said I was against the death penalty you don't commit to an opinion on it going with "I'll accept it either way". It's not like anyone here knows your identity. What do you have to gain from not giving an opinion?

This is a rhetorical question of course.
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Is Le Penn's policy for a death penalty, or for a referendum on a death penalty. I answered the question on her policies, saying I would be in favour of a referendum you seem to have answered something else.

You made a bold comment on her policies, so you either know about them, but seem afraid to discuss them, or you just posted an opinion from ignorance. I was simply honest in saying I didn't know much about them.
 
petersaxton said:
The weird thing is that the lefties get upset when the Conservatives go slower on tackling the deficit and howl with rage when they go faster on tackling the deficit. The reality is that there's only so much that the government can do on taxing the rich because the more tax goes up the less the government receives because people don't bother working so hard, the rich leave the country and people are less likely to set up businesses here.
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Except that this isn't true, is it? It's also suggesting that the Tories have even attempted to tax the rich, when they lowered them.
Austerity is ideological and damaging. It hasn't worked and it isn't supposed to.
Starve the beast, lie to the population.
 
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DMD said:
Is Le Penn's policy for a death penalty, or for a referendum on a death penalty. I answered the question on her policies, saying I would be in favour of a referendum you seem to have answered something else.

You made a bold comment on her policies, so you either know about them, but seem afraid to discuss them, or you just posted an opinion from ignorance. I was simply honest in saying I didn't know much about them.
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The death penalty is ineffective, expensive rubbish. We got rid of it for a reason.
 
DMD said:
For all your words, you can't deny that there are other options, which was my claim. You also shouldn't be so certain that the deals within the EU won't alter.
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What are they? You've still not answered & how can these options make the country as prosperous as it is under the current single market arrangement? Which was my original question <doh>

Why would the EU single market change btw?
 
DMD said:
I didn't see that as an option in the Policies that was being responded to.
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Why would you be happy for the possibility of an objectively crap piece of legislation to go a referendum?
Should we have one about shoving a hot poker up your arse? It's democratic!
 
Tobes said:
What are they? You've still not answered & how can these options make the country as prosperous as it is under the current single market arrangement? Which was my original question <doh>

Why would the EU single market change btw?
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You're doing your usual trick of adding to the original claim. I pointed out that that there were other options, which is obvious, as 90% of the worlds population exist outside the EU. Take your pick of which method they use.

The EU single market could be reviewed for a variety of reasons. Various key officials in the EU are concerned about its condition and fearful for its future, not just because the Euro is widely agreed to be a failure, and liable to help the EU collapse.
 
Tobes said:
I've already addressed it in the post you replied to with waffle, as your selective editing in the post last night missed the salient point Adolf.

The ultimate 'salient point' is that you're a Nazi ****. <ok>
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This was my response to your 'salient point', which you flat out ignored, despite me calling you out for it a few times now. Taking the 'salient' part from the article, pasting it here and saying 'See, this is what you're doing Adolf!<laugh>' isn't properly addressing my response...

"Then we get on to the justification of this pathetic piece of literature – ‘cultural racism’. Culture is formed by ideas, and ideas are formed by debate, if the argument is ‘racism now means culture’, then how can a culture ever change for fear of being called racist? Are all of the Muslim reformers that receive death threats from other Muslims racists? Did our country become racist in 1948 when it decided that our culture could do with a change and offer free healthcare to all citizens? Were the Germans who turned away from the culture under Literally Hitler racist for doing so? Were the Republicans racist for deciding to change their culture and releasing the slaves? Do you see the hole you’ve dug for yourself?"

I don't know why you are doing this to yourself.
 
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PleaseNotPoll said:
Why would you be happy for the possibility of an objectively crap piece of legislation to go a referendum?
Should we have one about shoving a hot poker up your arse? It's democratic!
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Because over the years, a polls show that a decent percentage of the population seem to disagree with you. Whether that's a majority or not is debatable, but a referendum would inform that.

Do you know many people proposing shoving hot pokers up arses?
 
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