The Politics Thread

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PleaseNotPoll said:
He seems to be basing it purely on race, though. That's his concern and the only point that he brings up.
I'm aware that it's a short video and his point might be edited out of context, though.

This was at a conference where people were throwing the Nazi salute and making similar statements.
Hail victory? Translate that into German and what do we get? Sieg Heil. Hmm...

Everyone there might not agree with this stuff. You can see why people might get that impression, though.
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Agreed. Also most of the morons there probably dont know the historical signifance of such gestures etc.

But, i would suggest that most, if not all, of the people there, are there because they are disaffected and disenfranchised by society. I'm of the view that they might well have good reason for feeling that way, and that our society does not consider such reasons, or does not consider such reasons ethical, because we are so caught up in protecting the rights of 'minorities' at all costs, that we forget about everyone else.

Most people would just regard these people as deplorables. As those who hate. People to be hated. But to me, that hate has come from somewhere, and the answer isnt simply to hate it back.

As you point out, we don't know how many people feel that way, but Clinton herself estimated that half trump's voters were "deplorables". That's over 40 million people who feel like theyve been left out, and who have asked for someone to stand up for them.
 
RobSpur said:
Agreed. Also most of the morons there probably dont know the historical signifance of such gestures etc.

But, i would suggest that most, if not all, of the people there, are there because they are disaffected and disenfranchised by society. I'm of the view that they might well have good reason for feeling that way, and that our society does not consider such reasons, or does not consider such reasons ethical, because we are so caught up in protecting the rights of 'minorities' at all costs, that we forget about everyone else.

Most people would just regard these people as deplorables. As those who hate. People to be hated. But to me, that hate has come from somewhere, and the answer isnt simply to hate it back.

As you point out, we don't know how many people feel that way, but Clinton herself estimated that half trump's voters were "deplorables". That's over 40 million people who feel like theyve been left out, and who have asked for someone to stand up for them.
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Trump didn't get 80m votes, so I'm not sure how you've come to that figure.
I disagree with Clinton on that matter, anyway.

I don't believe that anyone attending that event was under any misapprehension about what it was.
The main speaker was Richard Spencer and he's an outspoken white supremacist.
Nobody would leave this with any other impression, would they?
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The man's a Nazi. I think it's fair to call him a deplorable and one who hates.

Are all of the alt-right on that level? No. I'd like to hear what their actual issues are.
While they associate with people like Spencer though, it's unlikely to happen.
 
PleaseNotPoll said:
Trump didn't get 80m votes, so I'm not sure how you've come to that figure.
I disagree with Clinton on that matter, anyway.

I don't believe that anyone attending that event was under any misapprehension about what it was.
The main speaker was Richard Spencer and he's an outspoken white supremacist.
Nobody would leave this with any other impression, would they?
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The man's a Nazi. I think it's fair to call him a deplorable and one who hates.

Are all of the alt-right on that level? No. I'd like to hear what their actual issues are.
While they associate with people like Spencer though, it's unlikely to happen.
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Where does a white person who feels that he is being disregarded by society because of his skin colour turn ? Who sees his nation standing up in one voice for black people, without so much as a whisper for the white working class ?

There arent really any white equality movements tbf. So he goes to a white supremacist group, because theyre the only people he feels will listen to him.

This is really one if my main points. That i feel that society has in some cases gone too far in its advancement of groups that are regarded as minorities. That it has gone beyond equality. Where minority groups are given a sense of right and entitlement, and a feeling of support purely because of their gender, ethnicity etc, that some others might feel they are not given. That's only going to create bitterness. And push people into extremism. And the less we pay attention to them, and the more we write them off as simply undeserving and reprehensible, the worse it's going to get.
 
RobSpur said:
Where does a white person who feels that he is being disregarded by society because of his skin colour turn ? Who sees his nation standing up in one voice for black people, without so much as a whisper for the white working class ?

There arent really any white equality movements tbf. So he goes to a white supremacist group, because theyre the only people he feels will listen to him.

This is really one if my main points. That i feel that society has in some cases gone too far in its advancement of groups that are regarded as minorities. That it has gone beyond equality. Where minority groups are given a sense of right and entitlement, and a feeling of support purely because of their gender, ethnicity etc, that some others might feel they are not given. That's only going to create bitterness. And push people into extremism. And the less we pay attention to them, and the more we write them off as simply undeserving and reprehensible, the worse it's going to get.
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I think that that person turns away from the Republicans and Trump as quickly as possible.
The man and that party have crapped on the working class his whole life and will continue to do so.
Healthcare, tax cuts for the rich, increased national debt, removal of job protections and benefits... the list is endless.

If people oppose affirmative action, then I don't think that they'll find that much of a pushback against it.
That's not the same as white supremacy, though. Not by a long shot.
Feeling oppressed is not actually being oppressed, either. Most of the bitterness comes from nonsense news stories.
There's lot of absolute fabrications doing the rounds at the moment and there has been for some time.
 
PleaseNotPoll said:
If people oppose affirmative action, then I don't think that they'll find that much of a pushback against it.
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I don't agree.

You ever tried telling anyone that you think black people have more rights and opportunities than white people, or that you think women have more rights and opportunities than men ?

You won't get far with that discussion I suspect.
 
RobSpur said:
I don't agree.

You ever tried telling anyone that you think black people have more rights and opportunities than white people, or that you think women have more rights and opportunities than men ?

You won't get far with that discussion I suspect.
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You'll find a lot of disagreement.
What rights do black people and women have that white people and men don't?
 
PleaseNotPoll said:
You'll find a lot of disagreement.
What rights do black people and women have that white people and men don't?
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You'll find more than disagreement. you'll find a reaction that such views are considered unethical.

I didnt say that I hold such views.

But off the top of my head, a suggestion might be :


Advantages of being a woman in western society

- positive discrimination in workplace
- favourable treatment in the workplace
- typically less financial burden
- favoured by criminal courts
- favoured by civil courts
- far less likely to die in the workplace
- far less likely to commit suicide
- chanpioned by the press daily
- taught in schools that you are privileged
- a sense of community that men don't have
- a sense of protection by society that men don't have


Advantages of being from a minority race in western society

- positive discrimination in workplace
- a sense of community that white people don't have
- a sense of protection by society that white people don't have


I'm not completely convinced though that we havent gone off at something of a tangent here, and suggest that it might be an idea to continue the disscussion at a later date.
 
RobSpur said:
I didnt say that I hold such views.

But off the top of my head, a suggestion might be :


Advantages of being a woman in western society

- positive discrimination in workplace
- favourable treatment in the workplace
- typically less financial burden
- favoured by criminal courts
- favoured by civil courts
- far less likely to die in the workplace
- far less likely to commit suicide
- chanpioned by the press daily
- taught in schools that you are privileged
- a sense of community that men don't have
- a sense of protection by society that men don't have


Advantages of being from a minority race in western society

- positive discrimination in workplace
- a sense of community that white people don't have
- a sense of protection by society that white people don't have


I'm not completely convinced though that we havent gone off at something of a tangent here, and suggest that it might be an idea to continue the disscussion at a later date.
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I agree that it would be better to have this at another date, but I'll just note that none of those are rights.
 
PleaseNotPoll said:
I agree that it would be better to have this at another date, but I'll just note that none of those are rights.
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hmmm. Several of them are at a minimum rights related I would suggest. I'm not sure that the distinction is particularly vital though.

Anyway, goodnight. :)
 
When it's announced £370m will be spent rewiring Buckingham Palace, people immediately lose their collective **** over it

When the Autumn Statement sneaks in how £8bn will be spent renovating a house Jane Austen never lived at nor owned, merely one she looked at once and thought it would be a good place to set some novel she was writing, not a peep
 
littleDinosaurLuke said:
Anyone who is pro-Brexit might have a few trillion reasons to reconsider after hearing the Chancellor's Autumn Statement today.

A few trillion and counting.....
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Brexit is about the long term rather than the short term. The monster that is the EEC is spiraling out of control, making rules and regulations that work for some but not all. For me it's difficult to understand how a single currency can work without a single exchequer, how different minimum wages can work, how different tax regiemes can work. Look at Ireland, 13% corporation tax with 23% VAT. It is an unfair playing field.

Personally I think our chancelor missed a trick, the personnal tax allowance should be based around the living wage, i.e. 7.5 pounds x 40 hrs x 52 weeks = 15,600 quid. Corporation tax should have gone to 13% to match Ireland. To pay for it raise VAT to around 25%. Raise Pensions by about 5% to compensate for VAT rises. I prefer VAT to income tax, those who avoid paying income tax can't avoid paying VAT unless of course they dont spend their money, in which case what's the point of working for it.
 
PowerSpurs said:
If everyone shared your views we wouldn't need race relations laws just as we wouldn't need laws on theft if everyone was honest.
But unfortunately there are some people who do discriminate in horrible ways. You seem very angry at the small backlash against initiatives designed to mitigate the effects of discrimination. Imagine how it must feel to be on the end of the really horrible stuff.
No-one is telling you what to think but until the number of people who are race and sex blind is down to about the same number as say bank robbers you are bound to see things happening to try to educate people and punish the worst offenders.

I think all analysis of Trump is generally superficial. Most Republican candidates would have had a chance of beating Clinton. Him being a political outsider probably gained enough votes to make up for those he lost from his behaviour. The fact that a majority of white women had no problem voting for him pretty much rebuts your claims of some conspiracy against men
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That's pretty well put.

One thing i will say is, whilst we should all be aware of racism (or really its basically putting your mates on the board) with things like black athletes not being invited onto the athletics boards and stuff, other things like there is not enough support for black players in snooker should not be the subject of the title as the basis of the article is that snooker is too expensive. That is a class issue in that all poor people would find it hard to be financially supported and not a race issue.
 
humanbeingincroydon said:
Looks like the usual suspects took the bait...

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Unfortunately, the simple minded, the dimwitted, and the completely braindead, will take these headlines to mean that they made a good choice and all's well!..
 
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NowsufferinginSpain said:
Unfortunately, the simple minded, the dimwitted, and the completely braindead, will take these headlines to mean that they made a good choice and all's well!..
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Since the front page of today's Mail is here, it's worth pointing out they have come in for hefty criticism today: while the front page of every other paper had at the very least a reference and more often than not a full story of Thomas Mair being given a full-life tariff for the murder of Jo Cox, the Mail buried the entire story on page thirty - and a whole hell of a lot of comment debating whether or not this would have been the case if the murderer was a migrant, non-white, or a "leftie."
 
Jill Stein, the Green Party candidate in the US, has called the result in a number of swing states into question.
There have been a number of stories since the election about possible hacks and other dubiousness.
In order to clear up any lingering doubts, she's requested donations to fund a recount in three states.

Filing the initial request will cost $2.5m and the deadline for finding this money is tomorrow.
The crowdfunding attempt hit it's target in less than 24 hours, so they've added another state.

Has the US election been hacked? Probably not.
They'd probably be better off focusing on the number of votes that were scrubbed off by voter suppression.
 
RobSpur said:
I'm not racist. I'm not sexist. I'm not a bully. I support equality.

But I am sick to death of the liberal agenda in our society.

About people being brought up to take offence at being told they aren't discriminated against.

About the arrogance and hypocrisy of those who brand themselves as lovers and those with a different opinion to their own haters.

About the constant stream of bullshit news stories focusing on total non issues because theyre politically correct.

About people manipulating events and statistics to support their agenda.

About people not being allowed to speak and not interested in listening.

It makes me sick, and I've had enough of it.
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Sounds like you just need to change which websites you visit. If I read The Express every day I guess I might feel sick of all the immigrants ruining my life. There are plenty of places where there are not "stories" every day about what some student did in some university somewhere (which might even have happened years ago).

"the constant stream of bullshit news stories focusing on total non issues because theyre politically correct"

See, you complained over and over again before about how feminazis are running the world and ruining everything for everyone all the time. Yet your two examples were a Twitter spat from over a year ago that somehow made it into some national papers and...I can't remember the second one but I remember that they spanned a good couple of years. So...constant?

I think there is ample opportunity to consume "SJWs are ruining everything" stories. I've actually been watching a few very annoying videos recently of SJWs being total dicks. It's sort of a bit addictive. It makes me cringe and sort of feel superior for a bit. But it's a really bad habit and can give you a totally skewed idea of what is happening in the world.

Oh - and you actually *are* racist and a bit of a misogynist. We've seen ample evidence of that and I've cited it before now too.
 
SpursDisciple said:
Apparently the new name for it is Bruckup.
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People focus on the decision at the referendum, but it's not that in itself which is the problem. It's the fact that there wasn't even page 1 of a plan about leaving if the public voted for it - because the government didn't think enough people would vote for it. It was a sop to the anti - European element, especially those in the Tory party. The planned response was to point out that whilst the majority wanted to stay in Europe, there were enough dissenters to suggest there needed to be a greater effort to negotiate some reform to the EC from within. A vote to leave was never considered to be a viable outcome. What a Bruckup indeed.
 
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