The EU debate - Part III

[DMD]

There were instances of the police shooting people in the back when they were running away and then planting weapons.

Seriously, if anyone doesn't like to see real, graphic violence, then don't watch this:

You must log in or register to see media

The police in the US are far too trigger happy and kill too many people.
I think that this is caused by the country's issues with firearms, rather than any police or race-related issues, though.
The media's culture of fear over there doesn't help, either.

A number of the high-profile killings that resulted in protests and violence were poorly chosen, though.
It damages the movement and makes it easy for some people to dismiss the whole thing.
I think that Mark Duggan's shooting by the police over here had a similar affect.

There are video's of them doing it to white people too. Just hanging it on racism stifles finding a solution.

Here's another one liable to be ignored or dismissed because of the channel it's on.

You must log in or register to see media

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

Oh aye, listen to these racists. There are plenty more.

I posted one of Morgan Freeman's interviews, there are plenty of others were he's saying what I'm saying. I guess he must be a racist too.

You must log in or register to see media

You must log in or register to see media

Christian Conservatives don't like Liberals? That's news? Really? Try harder.
Finding people to disagree with Black Lives Matter isn't hard. It also doesn't prove anything.
It's also pointless, when I actually dealt with all of their supposed points in my previous comment.

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

I think they've given reasonable people the ability to no longer be bullied into accepting things they don't want.

Maybe if you say it enough times, you'll start to believe it. I don't care about any of the labels I'm given, it's part and parcel of political discussion with anyone who leans left. Call me whatever pleases you.

They really haven't. They're a pair of complete bullshitters that have sold a con to rubes.
Both have sold a nebulous, undefined product that neither will ever actually produce.
They're demagogues.

 

[NSIS]

There are video's of them doing it to white people too. Just hanging it on racism stifles finding a solution.


The stats say otherwise!...


http://mappingpoliceviolence.org/unarmed/


Here's another one liable to be ignored or dismissed because of the channel it's on.

You must log in or register to see media

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

Yes, I saw that video. I would expect in some cases the police have experience of people shooting unprepared police so the moment somebody doesn't comply and behaves in such a way that it could reasonably be thought that they had a gun and were going to shoot the police shoot first.

And this is another reason why body cams are important.

 

[DMD]

Christian Conservatives don't like Liberals? That's news? Really? Try harder.
Finding people to disagree with Black Lives Matter isn't hard. It also doesn't prove anything.
It's also pointless, when I actually dealt with all of their supposed points in my previous comment.

You posted a video of a crime, where the assailant is being tried for murder, and the state admitted culpability and paid out a substantial compensation fee. It doesn't make it right, or bring the guy back to life, but it does seem to make the claim that there is systematic racism weaker.

Black people, some of them prominent people, saying the same as me, that it's a much wider issue than simply calling 'racist' will address.

You have an issue with stop and search, I get that, but it doesn't address the actual point I keep trying to bring it back to, that just calling it and other issues 'racist' isn't productive.

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

There are video's of them doing it to white people too. Just hanging it on racism stifles finding a solution.

Here's another one liable to be ignored or dismissed because of the channel it's on.

You must log in or register to see media

When did I blame racism? I specifically said that it wasn't about racism in the comment that you quoted.

Ben Carson! The man ran for President, then turned down a position in Trump's government.
He's simply trying to sell some books and make some money.
The man's a ****ing laughing stock.

“Obamacare is really I think the worst thing that has happened in this nation since slavery.” - Ben Carson.
Even his own side don't take him seriously. He says utterly dumb **** all the time.

 

[DMD]

When did I blame racism? I specifically said that it wasn't about racism in the comment that you quoted.

Ben Carson! The man ran for President, then turned down a position in Trump's government.
He's simply trying to sell some books and make some money.
The man's a ****ing laughing stock.

“Obamacare is really I think the worst thing that has happened in this nation since slavery.” - Ben Carson.
Even his own side don't take him seriously. He says utterly dumb **** all the time.

Given you're replying to me making a comment specifically, and almost exclusively on the issue of racism, it's odd you're not replying about racism.

Blacks kill more blacks every 6 months than the KKK did in total in almost 100 years.

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

You posted a video of a crime, where the assailant is being tried for murder, and the state admitted culpability and paid out a substantial compensation fee. It doesn't make it right, or bring the guy back to life, but it does seem to make the claim that there is systematic racism weaker.

Black people, some of them prominent people, saying the same as me, that it's a much wider issue than simply calling 'racist' will address.

You have an issue with stop and search, I get that, but it doesn't address the actual point I keep trying to bring it back to, that just calling it and other issues 'racist' isn't productive.

The guy got caught on camera clearly committing murder and it was broadcast around the world.
You think that admitting culpability in this case rules out systematic racism? Give me a break.

Simply calling something racist doesn't solve anything. Nobody's saying that it does.
That's not where things end and I've no idea why you think it is.
That doesn't mean that racist **** shouldn't be called racist ****.

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

Given you're replying to me making a comment specifically, and almost exclusively on the issue of racism, it's odd you're not replying about racism.

The comment that you're quoting was a reply to Pete, not you.

 

[DMD]

The guy got caught on camera clearly committing murder and it was broadcast around the world.
You think that admitting culpability in this case rules out systematic racism? Give me a break.

Simply calling something racist doesn't solve anything. Nobody's saying that it does.
That's not where things end and I've no idea why you think it is.
That doesn't mean that racist **** shouldn't be called racist ****.

It's where I started from and what I've stuck to, and what others have been arguing against.

Thanks for your support.

 

[DMD]

The comment that you're quoting was a reply to Pete, not you.

Righty ho, I realise now that that you're actually in full agreement with the singular point I've been making and others have been arguing against. Cheers.

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

Blacks kill more blacks every 6 months than the KKK did in total in almost 100 years.

What an asinine statement. It's also a quote from Fox News. No MSM are evil! claims here, then?

Firstly, we don't actually know how many people that the KKK killed.
Secondly, there were 35,092 people killed by cars in the US last year. Does that make cars worse than the KKK?

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

Righty ho, I realise now that that you're actually in full agreement with the singular point I've been making and others have been arguing against. Cheers.

If I am, then you've been making that point horribly.

 

[DMD]

If I am, then you've been making that point horribly.

I kept making it as a crystal clear, single line statement, it really couldn't have been any clearer.

You could perhaps have a word with those that took it elsewhere and clouded the simple, singular point to help them understand what we're saying.

 

[DMD]

What an asinine statement. It's also a quote from Fox News. No MSM are evil! claims here, then?

Firstly, we don't actually know how many people that the KKK killed.
Secondly, there were 35,092 people killed by cars in the US last year. Does that make cars worse than the KKK?

Generally when people are killed by cars, it's the driver to blame. It's guns that get depersonalised, and the pollution from the cars will bump that figure right up, but it's a bit of a silly and desperate argument anyway.

As for the KKK, like many issues, we may not know the exact figures, but I'll take your word for it that Fox use similar figures to the numbers I mentioned, which seem to be the ones widely used around the web. You seem watch Fox a lot more than I do. I tend to watch CNN, it's funnier.

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

Generally when people are killed by cars, it's the driver to blame. It's guns that get depersonalised, and the pollution from the cars will bump that figure right up, but it's a bit of a silly and desperate argument anyway.

As for the KKK, like many issues, we may not know the exact figures, but I'll take your word for it that Fox use similar figures to the numbers I mentioned, which seem to be the ones widely used around the web. You seem watch Fox a lot more than I do. I tend to watch CNN, it's funnier.

The number appears to be made up, as it probably would have to be.
It's not like the KKK were keeping score for everyone, is it?
You're right about it being a silly and desperate argument, though. I don't know why you made it.

 

[DMD]

The number appears to be made up, as it probably would have to be.
It's not like the KKK were keeping score for everyone, is it?
You're right about it being a silly and desperate argument, though. I don't know why you made it.

You're such a wag, and as we're now on the same team, I'll let you have that wriggle where you try to slip the blame for your silly car comment onto me.

 

[paultheplug]

You are walking down the street and you catch a glimpse of a very tall guy grab a man's wallet and run into a shopping mall. It happened so quickly you didn't remember anything else about him other than he was very tall and he had silver buttons on his shirt. When you go in the mall to look for the thief should you look for very tall people first, or is that unfair on the very many innocent very tall people and should you equally pay attention to very tall and short people to be more fair?

Peoples' recollections of incidents like that are usually only partially accurate unless they are specifically looking at the people involved. If you remembered the silver buttons you should also remember the colour of the shirt, whether he was black, white or brown etc.
You obviously wouldn't mind if a suspect was described as medium build with glasses and you were hustled into a police van and detained while your details were checked.

 

[paultheplug]

People go to football matches and get searched when entering the ground. Do you demonstrate against that or see it as a reason to commit crime?

When I go to football matches, posh shops, or concerts I expect any bag that I may be carrying to be searched which has been the situation for a long time. Bag searches in situations like this apply to everybody not 'random' people. I do not expect to be patted down and my pockets searched.