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Windom Earle said:
Where i am in France anyone in power is unpopular ... I seriously cannot see the society of France suddenly changing whoever gets in. Le Pen will have just as much trouble changing stuff in real time ... The French tradition of republic is a long way from how we live our lives in the UK. I have witnessed 10 year olds standing arm in arm with 90 year olds complaining about the EDF windmills being built in where i am a national park. Protests in France ... the ones i have attended are passionate and already because EDF a big corporate did not listen enough turbines have been blown up and sites damaged ... the point is that EDF wants to make money first and foremost ... that will not be allowed to happen even the coppers join in

My next one is the possible ban on burning firewood ... now that will be full on as even the suggestion by a Paris or EU bureaucrat is enough to put people on the streets . GOVERNMENTS should serve the people never the other way around IMO

Balance and reform is required of course i can see that as i have 8 people in my hamlet employed just to look after the environment: flowers, water bins etc but guess what? everything works so change will not be welcome even if it is coming
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The French are renowned for their protests and the authorities seem to allow for a greater degree of freedom to disrupt (lorries blocking motorways etc) even than they allow here.

The big issue for the French must surely be immigration through porous borders. I've had great sympathy for the residents of Calais who've had a difficult time during the existence of the Jungle. The handling of immigrants, whether genuine refugees or economic migrants, has been poor and Hollande may pay for it dearly. I guess it just depends how tolerant the French voters feel.
 
GoldhawkRd said:
The power behind the throne may well be Newt Gingrich, and possibly Rudy Giuliani, experienced, clear-headed intellectuals in Trump's cabinet.
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Giuliani, clear-headed, intellectual, really??

The man is a complete liar and fabricator of truth. He made his name on the back of the worst islamic terrorist attack in living memory and then denied it happened? A couple of weeks back he stated "there were no islamic terrorst attacks in America in the 8 years before Obama took office". Really, I seem to recall him being very visible as mayor of New York City on September 11, 2001. He has also said Hilary Clinton didn't care about September 11th (he remembered it then) and doesn't remember her ever visiting, despite a very famous picture of him walking down a New York street, face mask on, next to the women on September 12th.

If him and Newt Gingrich are his secret weapons then America is much worse off than I thought.
 
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QPR247 said:
Giuliani, clear-headed, intellectual, really??

The man is a complete liar and fabricator of truth. He made his name on the back of the worst islamic terrorist attack in living memory and then denied it happened? A couple of weeks back he stated "there were no islamic terrorst attacks in America in the 8 years before Obama took office". Really, I seem to recall him being very visible as mayor of New York City on September 11, 2001. He has also said Hilary Clinton didn't care about September 11th (he remembered it then) and doesn't remember her ever visiting, despite a very famous picture of him walking down a New York street, face mask on, next to the women on September 12th.

If him and Newt Gingrich are his secret weapons then America is much worse off than I thought.
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Haven't heard him deny 9/11. As you say, he made his name then, and also for a zero tolerance to crime in NY which was chronic at that time and was hugely improved.
 
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QPR247 said:
Giuliani, clear-headed, intellectual, really??

The man is a complete liar and fabricator of truth. He made his name on the back of the worst islamic terrorist attack in living memory and then denied it happened? A couple of weeks back he stated "there were no islamic terrorst attacks in America in the 8 years before Obama took office". Really, I seem to recall him being very visible as mayor of New York City on September 11, 2001. He has also said Hilary Clinton didn't care about September 11th (he remembered it then) and doesn't remember her ever visiting, despite a very famous picture of him walking down a New York street, face mask on, next to the women on September 12th.

If him and Newt Gingrich are his secret weapons then America is much worse off than I thought.
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I was assuming (or at least hoping) that Goldie was posting tongue in cheek. Anyway, everyone knows Howard Stern is the man behind Trump.
 
GoldhawkRd said:
Haven't heard him deny 9/11. As you say, he made his name then, and also for a zero tolerance to crime in NY which was chronic at that time and was hugely improved.
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Well not saying he actually denies it but he certainly has selective memory, he claimed there were no terrorist attacks on America during George W Bush's presidency, bit odd?

With regards to his claim that he was solely responsible for the drop in crime in NY is also pretty fantastical. No doubt zero tolerance and more policing had an effect but crime across the US came down at the same time, even in cities without "zero tolerance". In fact, there's a very strong argument that "Roe v Wade" (legalising abortion) nearly 20 years before crime rates began to drop had the biggest influence on those figures.

He seems to be in the right place and the right time though, to be fair!!
 
GoldhawkRd said:
I would say sovereignty has a clear meaning - supremacy of national institutions, elected Parliament, independent courts etc to make decisions on behalf of the country unaffected by outside sources. The authority of the state to govern itself.

Greatness is, I agree, nebulous. Jobs, affluence, international power and influence etc... I suspect that is what Trump's voters had in mind.

I don't have a problem with cheerleading, but Trump has been divisive. He has some rifts to heal now
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But cheerleading as a rout to power - no policies (apart from the wall!) and yes, divisive even thuggish behaviours.

Yes. My point about sovereignty is exactly that - it's multi faceted and means different things to different people. It's difficult to dispute that for some it's about immigration and jobs but for others it's about the rule of law. The point is when these things are just accepted at face value and not challenged or examined then one catchall phrase appeals to a much broader group.

Brexit is a case in point - lots of slogans, little detail and we are still none the wiser months after the event.

It really is a very new and, to my kind at least, a quite scary politics. You don't really know what the final landscape will look like, how it will be achieved or the actual ramifications until it's too late.
 
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I don't get why anybody's so surprised! I don't understand that.

When Reagan became president in 1980, that became the defining decade of the 80's that helped the world come out of the dark, dank and dirty 70s. Nobody really expected an actor to win it then.
When Obama took office, nobody in the whole world believed that a Black person could ever take the White House. And look where it has got us.

And now a businessman wins and people are stupefied. I don't get it. I think it's a totally normal thing in America from our perspective, outside looking in?

It's business as usual, if we can say that.
 
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What is amazing is that the new President did not win the popular vote. He instead won enough States to vote for him in the Electoral College, which is the ratification of the popular vote. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_College_(United_States) Higher populated States get more Electoral College votes than States with smaller populations. Republican Donald Trump sewed up the 2016 presidential election by claiming 289 electoral votes to Democrat Hillary Clinton’s 218, according to the most recent reported tally.

As of early Wednesday morning, Clinton had 58,909,774 total votes compared to Trump’s 58,864,233, according to CBS News and CNN. The tallies will continue to change but Clinton holds a 47.6 percent lead compared to Trump’s 47.5 percent.

The last time it happened was 2000 when Bush took more electoral college votes than Gore. Bush got put over the top by the ballots cast in Florida, where his brother was the Governor at the time.
 
QPR New York said:
What is amazing is that the new President did not win the popular vote. He instead won enough States to vote for him in the Electoral College, which is the ratification of the popular vote. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_College_(United_States) Higher populated States get more Electoral College votes than States with smaller populations. Republican Donald Trump sewed up the 2016 presidential election by claiming 289 electoral votes to Democrat Hillary Clinton’s 218, according to the most recent reported tally.

As of early Wednesday morning, Clinton had 58,909,774 total votes compared to Trump’s 58,864,233, according to CBS News and CNN. The tallies will continue to change but Clinton holds a 47.6 percent lead compared to Trump’s 47.5 percent.

The last time it happened was 2000 when Bush took more electoral college votes than Gore. Bush got put over the top by the ballots cast in Florida, where his brother was the Governor at the time.
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How do you feel about it?
 
all the promises made 9 years ago by obama (guantanamo etc)
how many have been fulfilled
business as usual for the next four years
which is all trump will get if he dosent start building a wall and stop muslims travelling
 
sb_73 said:
You may laugh but Canadian immigration offices have had to close through excessive demand from US citizens.
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that is just a tongue in cheek. No body in their right sense will move to middle of nowhere, one city Country.
 
kiwiqpr said:
all the promises made 9 years ago by obama (guantanamo etc)
how many have been fulfilled
business as usual for the next four years
which is all trump will get if he dosent start building a wall and stop muslims travelling
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With Trump's election, I think the Mexicans will be the ones building the wall. Might pop over and give them a hand.
 
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kiwiqpr said:
all the promises made 9 years ago by obama (guantanamo etc)
how many have been fulfilled
business as usual for the next four years
which is all trump will get if he dosent start building a wall and stop muslims travelling
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Obama was hamstrung by Congress and or Senate being Republican, they essentially blocked his proposals.....

Now there's a Republican President and both houses are Republican controlled who knows what will get through......
 
Tramore Ranger said:
Obama was hamstrung by Congress and or Senate being Republican, they essentially blocked his proposals.....

Now there's a Republican President and both houses are Republican controlled who knows what will get through......
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He's not really a Republican though, certainly not part of the party machine and didn't get much support from them. Doesn't owe many of the usual suspects any favours, could be interesting. Pulling out of all the Climate Change stuff high on the agenda.
 
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