The EU debate - Part III

Is that the "left wing loony argument" to justify getting rid of democracy: "the people can't be trusted to elect the right people because they don't understand things".

 

In such a position Greece would default and the banks holding the debt would suffer.
I'm far more concerned about China's debt than Italy or Greece. It's spiralling out of control and would be a killer for global economies if it goes tits up.

 

Greece's total debt is circa £330BN, I don't agree that the entire debt would be canned and I don't think it's anywhere near large enough to cause the complete collapse of the system if it was.

To put that into context, the BoE increased our quantitative easing by £60BN in a heartbeat after June 23rd.

 

The panic after China's rapid growth merely slowed slightly showed the level of impact that economy has on the global system.

 

Another non sequitur and a misinterpretation of what I wrote. Democracy usually involves govt by the people through elections of representatives. It's perfectly possible for the people to elect delegates or even to take decisions directly via referenda. However it is actually quite difficult to understand fully the impact of any decision in a society as complex as the one we live in. So I much prefer my MP to seek to understand the issues and vote accordingly.

 

Greece alone, No. it would shake it badly, but figures I've seen suggest it's just about digestible.

However, Italy or Spain is entirely another matter. And if any of this happened in conjunction, it's goodnight!...

 

If you are right it seems strange that MPs didn't all vote the same way in the referendum
if you dont think the voters understand the issue then did you vote and if so why?

 

Neither Italy nor Spain is the basket case that Greece is though.

The Eurozone was never sustainable imo, it was always a flawed vision.

 

He is right to a degree though Pete.
The amount of people that voted in the referendum, and vote in every General Election, without a ****ing clue what impact their votes will have, is staggering.
There are people who just always vote Tory, or always vote Labour........that's bullshit to me.
I weigh up the manifesto's presented before the people and make an informed decision on who I think would be best for the country based on said manifesto's, because that's all we really can do. Whether the elected party sticks to their manifesto and puts their money where their mouth is, is another matter. But you cannot legislate for that.

I know so many people who are like "Who you voting for? I am voting Labour/Tory, cos my mum is. We always vote Labour/Tory".
Those are the kinds of people I wanna smack in the mouth.

Schools should teach politics to kids.
Half the **** they get taught is pointless anyway, like 50% of the maths curriculum, French, and Religious Education.
Teach them **** that will matter, like how politics work, and how to manage money and a household, life skills they will make use of.

Half the **** in the maths curriculum is so dumb, and pointless unless you are going to be a theoretical physicist or some ****.
All you need is to be able to add, subtract, divide and multiply, thats it....... If you are going to go into a field that needs more than this, then it should be taught in further education.

 

Their votes at the referendum were their personal votes in the ballot box not in the House representing their constituents ffs

 

Are you serious?
People have different views on how society should be run and so will come to different decisions based on the same facts.
Having a referendum was a stupid idea as most people simply can't do the analysis so they will vote on a prejudice. That is fine at one level as it is 'democratic' but it is not a good way of getting the correct result (You might know the story of a US state assembly that voted to set Pi to 3.2 to make maths easier. It was democratic but demonstrably wrong).
I examined the issues as best I could and cast my vote.

 

Whilst I agree, currently. It's not unthinkable.

The question was what would happen if the Euro failed. Answer: almost certain global financial meltdown.

Yes, the Euro was always fundamentally flawed. But can it be allowed to fail? No, imo, it's gone too far now.

 

How much influence do you feel any media bias and/or influence plays in the issues?

 

depends through which outlet you are getting your information.
I find the BBC can be mostly trusted with a lot of ****.
No newspaper is unbiased, so forget the Mail, Telegraph, the Independant etc
You can look through and read through the manifesto's online and form your own opinion, if you are so inclined.

 

I would tend to agree, although I wouldn't trust the BBC to be impartial. They do slant the news.

I tend to try and see as many sides as possible. If my gut feeling is in one direction, I tend to search out sites with the opposite bias. Foreign news sites can often be revealing for a view away from the polarised UK mainstream.

 

Massively because they reinforce people's prejudices by very selective use of information. I'd probably absolve only the Daily Mirror from that.
But most media are controlled by people who either financially or politically will benefit from the outcome of any vote so its not surprising that they are biased.

 

The power of the mainstream media is huge.

Murdoch has been the King Maker in British politics for 30 years.

 

I dont think that politics is a matter of analysing issues
You vote for the party that appears to have a similar view to you of what is best for the country

 

Ok, so that's where you are going wrong Pete.
That what politics is mate.....
politicians analyse issues and then try to agree on how best to handle said issues.
Crime on the rise, analyse the reason why and try to fix it
Unemployment on the rise, ditto.

You DO vote for the party that has a similar view to you as what's best for the country, and you decide which party that is by analysing their stances on certain issues, to see if they mesh with yours.

 

If you can't tell which party is best for you in your opinion reasonably early on, say by the time you are thirty, you will never know