Match Day Thread Lilywhites V Canaries

[mike555]

If you don't like the analysis, don't read it. Not sure how you can dispute it though as all it is is mainly a list of facts.

Ignore it ? The topic is brought up with such regularity that it would be easier said that done !
As RiverendRick mentioned in an earlier post, the 2 losses to top 6 teams were both away fixtures. Against Birmingham we very poor and lost as a result of our own deficiencies, and not because Birmingham are necessarily a top 6 Championship side. Against Newcastle we came within a whisker of pulling off an unlikely victory, but ultimately our lack of cover for Tim Klose proved our undoing . You go on to suggest that we are likely to struggle against top 6 sides due to 2 games......are you serious or just on a wind up ? The top 6 , hopefully with the exception of Norwich , and as I suspect, Newcastle , may look completely different in another 10 to 12 weeks time. Therefore over analysing league positions , as early as October, is in my opinion , a fruitless exercise.

 

[carrowcanario]

The Murphy twins are 21 and have far more experience than Maddison, who has only been in the squad since the summer. His chance will come and I look forward to that immensely, but at the moment he's far better off getting first team experience with Aberdeen. I'm hoping we begin to build up a sufficient lead in the league so he can come back in January and get some game time in the Championship. In the mean time, we need to see what Pritchard can do at number 10.

Yep you're right I meant Aberdeen not Edinburgh. Not sure what experience the Murphy's have that Maddison doesn't. But he seems to have done much better going out on loan than they did. Also not sure what age has to do with it.

 

[carrowcanario]

Ignore it ? The topic is brought up with such regularity that it would be easier said that done !
As RiverendRick mentioned in an earlier post, the 2 losses to top 6 teams were both away fixtures. Against Birmingham we very poor and lost as a result of our own deficiencies, and not because Birmingham are necessarily a top 6 Championship side. Against Newcastle we came within a whisker of pulling off an unlikely victory, but ultimately our lack of cover for Tim Klose proved our undoing . You go on to suggest that we are likely to struggle against top 6 sides due to 2 games......are you serious or just on a wind up ? The top 6 , hopefully with the exception of Norwich , and as I suspect, Newcastle , may look completely different in another 10 to 12 weeks time. Therefore over analysing league positions , as early as October, is in my opinion , a fruitless exercise.

Well of course it's comes up regularly I try and update it after each round of games. RER has mentioned the home and away aspect and I will try and include that going forward. Unless of course you're suggesting I don't post it cause you don't like it, in which case I'll stop it immediately, NOT.

As we've only played 3 of the teams currently in the top six and lost to 2 of them (away games) and beat 1 (at home), whereas we've beaten all 7 teams we played in the bottom half of the table. We've also drawn with the 3 teams we've played who are not in the top 6 or the bottom half of the table. I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest

1) At the moment it looks like we’re going to beat teams in the lower half of the table but struggle against teams in the top 6.

2) so against what would appear to be our main competitors we are not doing particularly well in potential 6 pointer games.

Maybe I should have added that we seem to be more than capable of beating teams in the bottom half of the table, but look like we're going to struggle to beat teams in the top half. I'm sure the data could suggest other trends, but as you think the analysis is pointless I'm not sure why you're interested in discussing it.

As I said, If you don't like it, don't read it or comment on it.

 

[RiverEndRick]

Yep you're right I meant Aberdeen not Edinburgh. Not sure what experience the Murphy's have that Maddison doesn't. But he seems to have done much better going out on loan than they did. Also not sure what age has to do with it.

Josh has 9 appearances in the PL and 21 in the Championship with us and Wigan, followed by a full year in the Championship for MK Dons with 42 appearances and their 'PotS' award. This year he's added 3 appearances with 1 goal. He's also had 15 appearances with the England youth teams.

Jacob has 20 appearances in the Championship with us and on loan, and 40 appearances with Coventry last year. This year he's had 11 appearances with 5 goals and another goal in the EFL Cup. He's also had 5 appearances with the England youth teams.

Maddison had 35 appearances in 3 years at Coventry and 5 matches at Aberdeen so far with 2 goals.

 

[carrowcanario]

Josh has 9 appearances in the PL and 21 in the Championship with us and Wigan, followed by a full year in the Championship for MK Dons with 42 appearances and their 'PotS' award. This year he's added 3 appearances with 1 goal. He's also had 15 appearances with the England youth teams.

Jacob has 20 appearances in the Championship with us and on loan, and 40 appearances with Coventry last year. This year he's had 11 appearances with 5 goals and another goal in the EFL Cup. He's also had 5 appearances with the England youth teams.

Maddison had 35 appearances in 3 years at Coventry and 5 matches at Aberdeen so far with 2 goals.

So not much difference between Maddison and where Jacob was at the start of the season, Josh has a little more experience now and was a little more experienced at the start of the season than Maddison has now. I still think he's deserving of a chance when he comes back in January.

 

[RiverEndRick]

Out of curiosity, I had a look at Newcastle's record and they have had 3 games against current top 6 teams, losing to Huddersfield at home and beating Brighton at home and us at home (if rather miraculously).

Brighton have lost to Newcastle away and beaten Huddersfield at home, so I'm not sure that our 2 losses away is really that indicative yet. It's all interesting though.

 

[RiverEndRick]

So not much difference between Maddison and where Jacob was at the start of the season, Josh has a little more experience now and was a little more experienced at the start of the season than Maddison has now. I still think he's deserving of a chance when he comes back in January.

The main difference to me is that Maddison has no games in England above League One. As I said above, I think that if he comes back in January he will get some chances after his Aberdeen experience.

 

[JM Fan]

The main difference to me is that Maddison has no games in England above League One. As I said above, I think that if he comes back in January he will get some chances after his Aberdeen experience.

Whilst I'd LOVE to see JM return in Jamuary, I'm not convinced he'd get much game time, with both Wes and Alex ahead of him, so as much as I hate to say it, it may well be better for his development to stay at the Dons until the end of the season. Ther's NO way we'd loan him to a Championship club abd a possible rival (now, why would any club do that????.......), so IMO, he may be better off stayig north of the border.

 

[RiverEndRick]

Whilst I'd LOVE to see JM return in Jamuary, I'm not convinced he'd get much game time, with both Wes and Alex ahead of him, so as much as I hate to say it, it may well be better for his development to stay at the Dons until the end of the season. Ther's NO way we'd loan him to a Championship club abd a possible rival (now, why would any club do that????.......), so IMO, he may be better off stayig north of the border.

You may well be right, JM fan. AN will have to make that decision in January, but it'll also depend on what Pritchard and Naismith are able to do in the mean time. If we're looking strong for promotion, I'd like to see him getting game time in the second half of the season, but the good of the club comes first.

 

[mike555]

Well of course it's comes up regularly I try and update it after each round of games. RER has mentioned the home and away aspect and I will try and include that going forward. Unless of course you're suggesting I don't post it cause you don't like it, in which case I'll stop it immediately, NOT.

As we've only played 3 of the teams currently in the top six and lost to 2 of them (away games) and beat 1 (at home), whereas we've beaten all 7 teams we played in the bottom half of the table. We've also drawn with the 3 teams we've played who are not in the top 6 or the bottom half of the table. I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest

1) At the moment it looks like we’re going to beat teams in the lower half of the table but struggle against teams in the top 6.

2) so against what would appear to be our main competitors we are not doing particularly well in potential 6 pointer games.

Maybe I should have added that we seem to be more than capable of beating teams in the bottom half of the table, but look like we're going to struggle to beat teams in the top half. I'm sure the data could suggest other trends, but as you think the analysis is pointless I'm not sure why you're interested in discussing it.

As I said, If you don't like it, don't read it or comment on it.

I am sure by the end of February/ beginning of March, your analysis might have started to become vaguely interesting.( and meaningful) I shall try my hardest to avoid reading and commenting on it until then . I sincerely hope that your prediction that we will struggle against the top teams , based on 3 games , proves to be premature and unfounded. If football was that easy to predict after a handful of games, all the data geeks would be winning a fortune off the bookies. But good luck anyway.

 

[JM Fan]

You may well be right, JM fan. AN will have to make that decision in January, but it'll also depend on what Pritchard and Naismith are able to do in the mean time. If we're looking strong for promotion, I'd like to see him getting game time in the second half of the season, but the good of the club comes first.

Yes, I guess it's not going to be an easy decision to make, as I'm HOPING Pritchard will get more starts/game time as the season progresses and so be ahead of JM were he to return in January.
Time will tell.

 

[ilovedelia]

Starting with last year, IMO we were relegated because we lost two vital defensive players in Tettey and Klose. The club did (finally) get a quality CB in January when Klose joined which made all the difference until his injury. I'd argue that we now have a far better defence than we ever had under Lambert or Hughton. As for Naismith, we needed more firepower as well and he was a proven PL player. He didn't settle quickly, but his 3 goals in 6 games this season indicates to me that he has the potential to be a key player either out wide or in the hole this season. Pritchard is the natural eventual replacement for Wes and offers another option we vitally need. Maddison has great potential, but at 19 he's not ready to take over from Wes just yet which is why he's out on loan.

I don't agree that most of this season we have defended poorly. We've lost 2 games out of 13, both when Klose was missing. We defended poorly in those, and we've made things difficult in other games, but we still got the results which have us in 2nd place averaging over 2 points a game. Yes we need another CB in January, but the situation isn't dire by any means.

Sorry but I go to every home game and our defence always looks vulnerable! We have scored more than we've let in which may give the impression that our defence is okay...it ISN'T! If we get promoted we just cannot rely on what we've got at present, we'll get ripped to shreds!

 

[JM Fan]

Sorry but I go to every home game and our defence always looks vulnerable! We have scored more than we've let in which may give the impression that our defence is okay...it ISN'T! If we get promoted we just cannot rely on what we've got at present, we'll get ripped to shreds!

Ain't that the truth??? Though having said that, I'm not overly impressed with much of the defending in the PL.
OK, I feel that both Klose and Pinto could be OK in the PL, but IMO, Pinto needs to remember that he is a defender first (though I love to see him joining in the attacks). AN for reasons best known to himself seems to persevere with Rusty at CB and he has been just about OK, though he was clearly at fault for for his compatriot's equaliser on Tuesday, but unless we get an upgrade in January, then I can see us slipping down the table. I don't know what RyBen has done wrong to sometimes even not be on the bench, but I guess we just have accept it!!!!

 

[RiverEndRick]

Sorry but I go to every home game and our defence always looks vulnerable! We have scored more than we've let in which may give the impression that our defence is okay...it ISN'T! If we get promoted we just cannot rely on what we've got at present, we'll get ripped to shreds!

Having already answered this at length in my post about the balance between attack and defence I won't go through all that again. IMO, we've scored more than we've conceded because we've commited more to attack, which does leave us vulnerable at times but that doesn't necessarily mean that we're defending badly, though I would like to see another CB in January. We wouldn't take as many risks in the PL. We'd be much less vulnerable if we played with 2 banks of 4 at the back and hit hopeful balls forward to Jerome and Wes, but the outcry then would be we're too defensive and not 'entertaining' enough. I like the emphasis on attack.

 

[RiverEndRick]

OK, I feel that both Klose and Pinto could be OK in the PL, but IMO, Pinto needs to remember that he is a defender first (though I love to see him joining in the attacks). AN for reasons best known to himself seems to persevere with Rusty at CB and he has been just about OK, though he was clearly at fault for for his compatriot's equaliser on Tuesday, but unless we get an upgrade in January, then I can see us slipping down the table. I don't know what RyBen has done wrong to sometimes even not be on the bench, but I guess we just have accept it!!!!

I agree with this but would include Olsson as well, though I'd like to see another LB in January. Pinto is improving on the defensive side and hopefully this will continue. I also hope we get another CB in January but don't agree that we'll necessarily slip down the table if we don't. We have potential for improvement through Oliveira, Pritchard, Naismith, Thompson, Canos and the Murphys which could make all the difference as the season goes on. We thus have a strong and big squad which will be able to absorb injuries as they occur (with the exception of Klose, Jerome and Tettey), unlike many other teams with smaller and weaker squads.

 

[themaclad]

Just a quick correction to the thread title Fulham are the Cottagers Preston are the Lilywhites, see you tomorrow at Carrow

 

[ilovedelia]

Having already answered this at length in my post about the balance between attack and defence I won't go through all that again. IMO, we've scored more than we've conceded because we've commited more to attack, which does leave us vulnerable at times but that doesn't necessarily mean that we're defending badly, though I would like to see another CB in January. We wouldn't take as many risks in the PL. We'd be much less vulnerable if we played with 2 banks of 4 at the back and hit hopeful balls forward to Jerome and Wes, but the outcry then would be we're too defensive and not 'entertaining' enough. I like the emphasis on attack.

As I said previously I watch it every week and our defence is vulnerable and not very good. You MUST be able to see that when you swatch the games live?

 

[JM Fan]

I agree with this but would include Olsson as well, though I'd like to see another LB in January. Pinto is improving on the defensive side and hopefully this will continue. I also hope we get another CB in January but don't agree that we'll necessarily slip down the table if we don't. We have potential for improvement through Oliveira, Pritchard, Naismith, Thompson, Canos and the Murphys which could make all the difference as the season goes on. We thus have a strong and big squad which will be able to absorb injuries as they occur (with the exception of Klose, Jerome and Tettey), unlike many other teams with smaller and weaker squads.

And yet AN doesn't rotate players very much when they're playing Sat/Tue/Sat. Yet last year when they played fewer games, he seemed to be forever changing the starting 11.

Just a quick correction to the thread title Fulham are the Cottagers Preston are the Lilywhites, see you tomorrow at Carrow

Taken from fulham Wiki page - Nicknames: The Lilywhites, The Cottagers, The Whites
Preston North End became football's first "Invincibles" when they won the inaugural Football League competition,

 

[RiverEndRick]

As I said previously I watch it every week and our defence is vulnerable and not very good. You MUST be able to see that when you swatch the games live?

You've said what you think and I've explained why I don't agree, so let's leave it there, ILD.

 

[swanseaandproud]

I think there will only be one auto place and one through the play off's because i cant see the toon not running away with it. they started bad but have sorted the problem out and are top by 4 points. So imo there are at least 10 teams that will fight it out for the two remaining places......The championship is the best league in the world for excitement.....My prediction is that Leeds will make it through the play off's and Norwich or Brighton for the auto place.....