The EU debate - Part III

[Stan]

if he talks like that people will avoid him
I've taken the decision to not interact with him and I'm sure if he is full of what he calls "jokes" everybody will give him a wide berth

It's impossible not to give you a wide berth.

 

[DMD]

They do not control our tax raising. Or any European country's tax policy.

They have control of the budget they are given. That is not central fiscal control.

Tell it to the Greeks, Irish etc. There a limits on what sovereign states can do fiscally, and we pay a 'tax' to a central pot.

Away from your own narrow area, it meets the other requirements for a version of federalism too.

It's bound to, it's one of its main raisons d'être.

 

[steveninaster1]

Pete is on another ego trip I see.
It's so pathetic that his only method of communication is to alienate himself.

 

[NSIS]

Tell it to the Greeks, Irish etc. There a limits on what sovereign states can do fiscally, and we pay a 'tax' to a central pot.

Away from your own narrow area, it meets the other requirements for a version of federalism too.

It's bound to, it's one of its main raisons d'être.

You're talking absolute bollocks in a desperate attempt to be right - and you're not!

A federal state has central fiscal control. The EU does not!...

The EU is NOT a federal state or institution. I would have thought that Juncker talking about making it one would have given you a clue. But clearly not!....!

 

[DMD]

You're talking absolute bollocks in a desperate attempt to be right - and you're not!

A federal state has central fiscal control. The EU does not!...

The EU is NOT a federal state or institution. I would have thought that Juncker talking about making it one would have given you a clue. But clearly not!....!

You need to pass on your infinite wisdom on your narrow field to the many academics in the wider field that disagree with you.

 

[DMD]

In the interest of balance, here's a site claiming it's not there yet, by their strict definition.

http://www.thenewfederalist.eu/is-a-federal-europe-possible

 

[NSIS]

You need to pass on your infinite wisdom on your narrow field to the many academics in the wider field that disagree with you.

Now it's bullshit!

They do not disagree with me. They merely state that it has minor fiscal elements. It does not have fiscal control over all member states. Therefore, for the last time, the EU is NOT a federal state or institution.

It's not difficult to comprehend

 

[Archers Road]

if he talks like that people will avoid him
I've taken the decision to not interact with him and I'm sure if he is full of what he calls "jokes" everybody will give him a wide berth

.

 

[DMD]

Now it's bullshit!

They do not disagree with me. They merely state that it has minor fiscal elements. It does not have fiscal control over all member states. Therefore, for the last time, the EU is NOT a federal state or institution.

It's not difficult to comprehend

I'll leave it there. You just get abusive when you're not right.

 

[pieguts]

Now it's bullshit!

They do not disagree with me. They merely state that it has minor fiscal elements. It does not have fiscal control over all member states. Therefore, for the last time, the EU is NOT a federal state or institution.

It's not difficult to comprehend

Even you have to concede that the whole subject of the EU verses federal state, has warranted discussion and written papers by academics. Unfortunately, you decided that this comment (by Hull) was laughable in the academic world, even though Hull provided evidence that it wasn't.
I'm still confused as to fiscal control verses monetary control?

 

[NSIS]

I'll leave it there. You just get abusive when you're not right.

And you get more and more evasive when you talk bollocks.

It's been explained to you. It's black & white. The EU does not have central fiscal control over its member states. Therefore it is NOT a federal institution.

You're completely wrong. End of....

 

[NSIS]

Even you have to concede that the whole subject of the EU verses federal state, has warranted discussion and written papers by academics. Unfortunately, you decided that this comment (by Hull) was laughable in the academic world, even though Hull provided evidence that it wasn't.
I'm still confused as to fiscal control verses monetary control?

Basically, in simple terms, fiscal control is the setting of tax rates, the raising of those taxes, etc.

The EU controls the budget it obtains from the member states. It does not set tax rates, nor collect federal taxes. It is not a federal institution.

As I pointed out earlier, Juncker's attempts to try and make it one I thought would be a big clue. But, obviously not.

 

[DMD]

And you get more and more evasive when you talk bollocks.

It's been explained to you. It's black & white. The EU does not have central fiscal control over its member states. Therefore it is NOT a federal institution.

You're completely wrong. End of....

I don't know how less evasive I could have been, given I've posted several links to back up what I'm saying.

You've just repeated the same narrow view on a small element of it.

Give up on the adversarial approach, and this thread could become interesting and widen your narrow area of discussion.

Your version of what fiscal control and federalism are isn't universal, it simply isn't black and white.

 

[NSIS]

I don't know how less evasive I could have been, given I've posted several links to back up what I'm saying.

You've just repeated the same narrow view on a small element of it.

Give up on the adversarial approach, and this thread could become interesting and widen your narrow area of discussion.

Your version of what fiscal control and federalism are isn't universal, it simply isn't black and white.

Read your own links.

They clearly state that although there are elements of fiscal control ( personally, I'm not so sure) there is NO central tax raising or collecting function - the heart of any fiscal state - therefore the EU cannot be a federal institution.

Your attempts to show otherwise are ridiculous..

 

[pieguts]

Basically, in simple terms, fiscal control is the setting of tax rates, the raising of those taxes, etc.

The EU controls the budget it obtains from the member states. It does not set tax rates, nor collect federal taxes. It is not a federal institution.

As I pointed out earlier, Juncker's attempts to try and make it one I thought would be a big clue. But, obviously not.

Thank you for the explanation. The final sentence wasn't necessary, but hey ho.

 

[NSIS]

Thank you for the explanation. The final sentence wasn't necessary, but hey ho.

It wasn't so much aimed at you, mate. ,!...

 

[DMD]

Read your own links.

They clearly state that although there are elements of fiscal control ( personally, I'm not so sure) there is NO central tax raising or collecting function - the heart of any fiscal state - therefore the EU cannot be a federal institution.

Your attempts to show otherwise are ridiculous..

Apart from the ones where the academics say they treat it otherwise. It simply isn't as black and white as you claim.

This started because you got hooked one one comment alleged to be from Junckers, and I posted a few others that show you can't trust a word he says, and using that one sentence as proof or as 'a big clue' is ridiculous and meaningless.

A fine advert for the EU or what?

Here's another link that more supports your position than what seems to have become mine, but it does show it's not black and white.

http://carleton.ca/ces/eulearning/i...on-is-the-eu-a-federation-or-a-confederation/

 

[DMD]

Thank you for the explanation. The final sentence wasn't necessary, but hey ho.

He can't discuss. He sees it all as a challenge to be proven right or wrong and reacts to the username more than the content, and is limited to one small area of the subjects.

His 'big clue' is one comment alleged to be from a guy that's made many others that contradict it. I posted some of them.

 

[NSIS]

Apart from the ones where the academics say they treat it otherwise. It simply isn't as black and white as you claim.

This started because you got hooked one one comment alleged to be from Junckers, and I posted a few others that show you can't trust a word he says, and using that one sentence as proof or as 'a big clue' is ridiculous and meaningless.

A fine advert for the EU or what?

Here's another link that more supports your position than what seems to have become mine, but it does show it's not black and white.

http://carleton.ca/ces/eulearning/i...on-is-the-eu-a-federation-or-a-confederation/

That proves nothing. Once again, they have no central fiscal control. Therefore, by simple definition, they cannot be a federal state.

 

[NSIS]

He can't discuss. He sees it all as a challenge to be proven right or wrong and reacts to the username more than the content, and is limited to one small area of the subjects.

His 'big clue' is one comment alleged to be from a guy that's made many others that contradict it. I posted some of them.

Bullshit! It's simple, but you try to confuse and obfuscate to try and prove the completely unprovable.