Transfer Rumours Transfer Rumours thread

[InBiscanWeTrust]

The capacity is now 54,074, so you've not sold it out yet. The obstructed view seats are also very cheap I understand.

The waiting lists mean knack all until people commit to the purchase when it's made available.

Stadiums are never sold out because you have rows of seats left empty to ensure separation of home and away fans.

 

[Tobes]

German ticket prices are about half of ours on average. I imagine the argument will be that this is why we have a more competitive league, but I just can't see how it can be sustained.

I've no issue with our ticket prices tbh. I paid £545 for my 2 passes in the PE this season and £299 for my lad who's at Uni. For 19 PL games that's not bad imo. Plus if I can't go I can sell my seats on a game by game basis via Stubhub who have a deal with the club.

 

[Tobes]

Stadiums are never sold out because you have rows of seats left empty to ensure separation of home and away fans.

That's included in the maximum capacity, and there's not nearly 3,000 of them

Our capacity is now sub 40k due to segregation.

 

[InBiscanWeTrust]

That's included in the maximum capacity, and there's not nearly 3,000 of them

Our capacity is now sub 40k due to segregation.

Well one was 900 short of the max so that's pretty much sold out when taking everything into account.

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

I've no issue with our ticket prices tbh. I paid £545 for my 2 passes in the PE this season and £299 for my lad who's at Uni. For 19 PL games that's not bad imo. Plus if I can't go I can sell my seats on a game by game basis via Stubhub who have a deal with the club.

all true, very standard prices there.

all seaosn tickets can be sold on our back to club too.

this is LFC

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They are more expensive but then again

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

Well one was 900 short of the max so that's pretty much sold out when taking everything into account.

considering that we basically had an average of 44.659 in 2015 with a capacity of 45,362 That would suggest that as we spent 115 on a new stand that 900 seats off are pretty hard to fill.

Also... there is a big assumption that the main stand is empty i nthis argument. The reality is away fans may not sell out and that is were 90% of the variance probably comes from.

On cot 17th with utd come i would assume we will be 54k+

I really don't think this is very relevant.

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

The inflation will only be curbed when the TV cash starts to either level off or goes backwards, and there's no sign of this happening whatsoever.

As and when it does, some could be caught out if they've over committed in terms of fees and contracts, as the saying goes - we'll see who's still got their trunks on when the tides goes out....

yes... It must do so at some point. when that is is the question. Will BT offer even more next time? can sky keep it up?

if every house in the country just got sky then the thing might make sense but its pretty ****ing mad right now. so a propostion pays for football and then the rest see their general fees sneak up to pay. At some point it must break

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

The capacity is now 54,074, so you've not sold it out yet. The obstructed view seats are also very cheap I understand.

The waiting lists mean knack all until people commit to the purchase when it's made available.

I understand your point onthe seat but What I am saying is there are some seats that are not even on sale as half the ground can't be seen and you cannot say for sure who many of those < capacity are in main stand, in other stands or away end. For example if leicster handed back several... who knows...

All I can say is that if some guys are looking at never getting a ticket as they are still +10 years on the leist and are 20k+ in the list then there's demand.

I don't think the issue is in demand. I really don't. As I outlined I think if 5k extra spend 60 quid or so per match we would have 7.5mil a year revenue extra (not even profit, just revenue) for a cost of 50-75million.....

The payback looks too long for what it is. Thats where i see the issue. its not even marginal perhaps.

I do also however see a if this was "marginal" john henry might just be saying **** them on this one.

The other thing i don't know the answer to is effect of brexit on exchange rate. Sterling went down 25% but does that help o nthe $ required or does it increase the cost of steel etc more?

I don't know.

 

[saintanton]

I've no issue with our ticket prices tbh. I paid £545 for my 2 passes in the PE this season and £299 for my lad who's at Uni. For 19 PL games that's not bad imo. Plus if I can't go I can sell my seats on a game by game basis via Stubhub who have a deal with the club.

Well that's fair enough, but I think there are many who do have an issue with it. Like I said earlier, it's as much to do with practicality as principle - I just can't see it being sustainable. If more and more money can be brought in through the commercial side, ok - but I think a large number of match-going fans are finding the cost is too much. These are supposed to be austere times, and there is a reason for demonstrations and complaints - it's not just people being arsey.

 

[InBiscanWeTrust]

considering that we basically had an average of 44.659 in 2015 with a capacity of 45,362 That would suggest that as we spent 115 on a new stand that 900 seats off are pretty hard to fill.

Also... there is a big assumption that the main stand is empty i nthis argument. The reality is away fans may not sell out and that is were 90% of the variance probably comes from.

On cot 17th with utd come i would assume we will be 54k+

I really don't think this is very relevant.

Yeah forgot about away fans. Most tickets will be those. What times were the games? Might have some impact as well

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

Yeah forgot about away fans. Most tickets will be those. What times were the games? Might have some impact as well

the leicester one was 5:30pm. don't think that would have much impact. They did have CL coming right after though.

The hull one was 3pm saturday and had the crowd in.

As i said however our average crowd v max capacity is always 8-900 shy unless its the biggest game so i'd not be attributing any demand issues to them delaying.

I just don't think it adds up financially for them.

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

Well that's fair enough, but I think there are many who do have an issue with it. Like I said earlier, it's as much to do with practicality as principle - I just can't see it being sustainable. If more and more money can be brought in through the commercial side, ok - but I think a large number of match-going fans are finding the cost is too much. These are supposed to be austere times, and there is a reason for demonstrations and complaints - it's not just people being arsey.

I would agree yet... well the ticket prices are not out of line with some stadiums in germany and they are a small bit cheaper than london... As i said i would rather they walk out and be dignified but they allowed it to sink to the lowest and chanted rather insulting stuff at the guys who saved the club form the depths... we were headed for the leeds scenario FFS. I think honestly there's an element in it thats very hard leftist and It wouldn't matter what an owner did it'd be wrong.

 

[InBiscanWeTrust]

I think all it needs is one club in the Prem to say we're going to charge a max of £20 a ticket, take a bit of hit in terms of match day revenue, and then there will be huge pressure on other teams to do the same and eventually they'll probably all follow suit.

New tv money should have gone to sorting this problem out with ticket prices but all it's done is inflate transfer fees/wages/agent fees and the later 2 are a huge issues for many teams.

 

[saintanton]

I would agree yet... well the ticket prices are not out of line with some stadiums in germany and they are a small bit cheaper than london... As i said i would rather they walk out and be dignified but they allowed it to sink to the lowest and chanted rather insulting stuff at the guys who saved the club form the depths... we were headed for the leeds scenario FFS. I think honestly there's an element in it thats very hard leftist and It wouldn't matter what an owner did it'd be wrong.

I've been talking in general terms about the state of football rather than the specifics at LFC. If we acted unilaterally then we'd put ourselves at a disadvantage and that's not going to happen.
I think the game needs to see that the fans are not a bottomless pit of money and slow down the inflation before the bubble bursts, though I doubt that anyone will act until the inevitable happens.
As for accusing FSG of greed, I agree with you. We don't want the relationship between the owners and the fans to sour, and the difference between the current owners and the last is total. I don't think it's personal greed that motivated FSG, I just think they misjudged the feelings amongst the majority of fans.

 

[saintanton]

I think all it needs is one club in the Prem to say we're going to charge a max of £20 a ticket, take a bit of hit in terms of match day revenue, and then there will be huge pressure on other teams to do the same and eventually they'll probably all follow suit.

New tv money should have gone to sorting this problem out with ticket prices but all it's done is inflate transfer fees/wages/agent fees and the later 2 are a huge issues for many teams.

I doubt any one club would take the risk, tbh.
You're right though, in that the increase in other incomes should mean that ticket prices can be made affordable - instead it's hoovered up by over-indulged players and their money-grabbing agents. There's where the real greed lies and there is the problem that needs addressing, imo.

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

I've been talking in general terms about the state of football rather than the specifics at LFC. If we acted unilaterally then we'd put ourselves at a disadvantage and that's not going to happen.
I think the game needs to see that the fans are not a bottomless pit of money and slow down the inflation before the bubble bursts, though I doubt that anyone will act until the inevitable happens.
As for accusing FSG of greed, I agree with you. We don't want the relationship between the owners and the fans to sour, and the difference between the current owners and the last is total. I don't think it's personal greed that motivated FSG, I just think they misjudged the feelings amongst the majority of fans.

I would love that to happen as an overall premier league initiative.

If away fans can have caps put in... well why not cap the tickets totally for example

However for wages and fees... I'm afraid globally there's too many johnny big balls countries like china out there who will just splash moeny gotten form the state on players just for show. so tv and commericalisation is a rat race.

IF tickets could be capped then PROBABLY.. well.. we would need councils to own municipal stadiums in each city and rent them to clubs to achieve the same situation... nobody will build a 500mil stadium on a 20 year return but a government agency.

This was done in italy and the model failed. Juve built thier own far smaller ground and coined it.


I would agree they were either absentee and trusted ayre to listen and judge or they themselves misjudged the fans feelings.

HOWEVER, that being said it doesn't mean it makes the anfield road end any more viable does it? If they can only charge 47 quid say... well it just could be the case that they cannot build what was intended to be built at the cost... and theres other factors like currency and material prices and all sorts for them to go through.

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

I doubt any one club would take the risk, tbh.
You're right though, in that the increase in other incomes should mean that ticket prices can be made affordable - instead it's hoovered up by over-indulged players and their money-grabbing agents. There's where the real greed lies and there is the problem that needs addressing, imo.

West ham pretended to do this I beleive... made big talk of it.. they won;t hodl for long and the prices will go right up to arsenal levels eventually.

I agree on the real issue. As i've pointed out a couple times today. Fans might as well mulch the cash and feed thier roses (or nettles) in the back garden as give it to agents.

 

[johnsonsbaby]

I've been talking in general terms about the state of football rather than the specifics at LFC. If we acted unilaterally then we'd put ourselves at a disadvantage and that's not going to happen.
I think the game needs to see that the fans are not a bottomless pit of money and slow down the inflation before the bubble bursts, though I doubt that anyone will act until the inevitable happens.
As for accusing FSG of greed, I agree with you. We don't want the relationship between the owners and the fans to sour, and the difference between the current owners and the last is total. I don't think it's personal greed that motivated FSG, I just think they misjudged the feelings amongst the majority of fans.

That website I got the chart from earlier is superb at writing these financial type articles. I've been reading it for a while, they are completely neutral and completely objective in terms of where problems lay etc.

Addressing your point about keeping the fans happy they very recently said this - ''If we compare Liverpool’s revenue with the other clubs in the Deloitte Money League top ten, it is immediately apparent where their main problem lies, namely commercial income. Liverpool’s £116 million might seem pretty good, but it is substantially lower than most of the elite clubs ........ This makes it all the more perplexing that the owners would focus on match day income and try to “nickel and dime” the community, when the larger opportunity is surely in the commercial arena.''

 

[saintanton]

Addressing your point about keeping the fans happy they very recently said this - ''If we compare Liverpool’s revenue with the other clubs in the Deloitte Money League top ten, it is immediately apparent where their main problem lies, namely commercial income. Liverpool’s £116 million might seem pretty good, but it is substantially lower than most of the elite clubs ........ This makes it all the more perplexing that the owners would focus on match day income and try to “nickel and dime” the community, when the larger opportunity is surely in the commercial arena.''

It's a bit like the government trying to claw back a few squid from people who have little in the first place, whilst letting the multi-nationals avoid paying billions in tax.

 

[Red Hadron Collider]

I've been talking in general terms about the state of football rather than the specifics at LFC. If we acted unilaterally then we'd put ourselves at a disadvantage and that's not going to happen.
I think the game needs to see that the fans are not a bottomless pit of money and slow down the inflation before the bubble bursts, though I doubt that anyone will act until the inevitable happens.
As for accusing FSG of greed, I agree with you. We don't want the relationship between the owners and the fans to sour, and the difference between the current owners and the last is total. I don't think it's personal greed that motivated FSG, I just think they misjudged the feelings amongst the majority of fans.

Boringly, I agree completely. I honestly thought the bubble would have exploded by now, but then the TV just chucks even more money at it. As you allude, money goes to money. Some things will never change.