Yeah but it's not so bad as that since stadium investment doesn't count towards FFP and reduces tax liability. Tens of millions of profit just sitting there is a worse ROI.
Transfer Rumours Transfer Rumours thread
- Thread starter Bozz
- Start date
-
Please bear with us on the new site integration and fixing any known bugs over the coming days. If you can not log in please try resetting your password and check your spam box. If you have tried these steps and are still struggling email [email protected] with your username/registered email address
-
Yeah but it's not so bad as that since stadium investment doesn't count towards FFP and reduces tax liability. Tens of millions of profit just sitting there is a worse ROI.
1. Did they? no. someone who was a fan in their organisation brought us to their attention. I would say they love the expansion they have seen intheir business in the USA alone on the back of it.
2. Yes they apologised for the tickets. but more than that they never promised a thing they have not delivered.
3. all other questions yea that's the truth.
4. Are they taking profit? yes but not out of the club they are making it on the side.. and are happy to do it.
My view on the anfield road end is it needs to be done just to stand still... but with a 10 year payback it makes little sense to me financially so either tickets go up or we don't by players for 2 years to allow it to happen.
Not much. Prob about 5 or 10% at a guess.
Most revenue now days is TV money,sponsorship and merchandise.
Reason why we are quite lucky at mo with merchandise and TV money for revenue as it's better than most.
Or we sell a stake in the club, 20% for X Million which will go towards that..
Also, Ayre as mentioned we're still looking at naming rights for the main stand, that won't be peanuts and will a fair way towards paying for that too!
Henry is just laying down the ground rules, sort of saying "you want success on and off the pitch, then be prepared to pay for it!"
FFP is irrelevant in a discussion on ROI
Tax liability is a different discussion too.
You are asking them to tie up 75mil of thier cash for 10 years maybe? why should they? maybe that 75mil would make a better return in fenway where the fans don't scream greed at them
have to look at the opportunity cost, cost of capital (if they put their own money in again this is a help to us big time) ROI, NPV.
Just cos we might WANT a shiny stand we also want a shiny team and a shiny manager and want it all like big kids.
FSG on the other hand have to manage their businesses sustainably.
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...ue-finances-club-by-club-breakdown-david-conn
Accounts of The Liverpool Football Club and Athletic Grounds Ltd for the year to 31 May 2015
• Ownership Fenway Sports Group, registered in the USA as NESV I, LLC, of which John W Henry is the principal shareholder
• Turnover 5th highest in League£298m, up from £256m in 2014
• Income Gate and match-day income £59m; TV and broadcasting £123m; Commercial £116m
• Wage bill 5th highest in League £166m, up from £144m in 2014
• Wages as proportion of turnover 56%
• Profit before tax £60m, following £1m profit in 2014
• Net debt £95m
• Interest payable £4m
• Highest-paid director Unnamed, £1.199m (Ian Ayre is the managing director)
State they are in: John Henry, principal of Liverpool’s Boston-based owners, Fenway Sports Group, said when they bought a crisis-stricken club in 2010 that they were attracted by the financial fair play rules introduced by Uefa to staunch excessive spending on wages. Gradually, now with Jürgen Klopp, appointed, they are rebuilding Liverpool to compete on its own resources – itself a reason why tickets for the 8,500 new seats in the Anfield main stand expansion will not be cheap. FSG has put some money in, though; in 2014-15 it wrote off a £69m loan by converting it to shares, then loaned £49m to fund the stadium works.
so....
£59mil take in gates and 123mil from tv and 116 from commercial
= about 20% of total income.
please note final line.
in 2014-15 it wrote off a £69m loan by converting it to shares, then loaned £49m to fund the stadium works.
I hope this gives you some context even if its a journalists headline based on knowing the score with the tickets at the time of writing.
That's all very well, But I'm guessing a large part of the match going fans simply can't just keep paying more and more.
They're not an inexhaustible cash cow.
Millionaire owners live in a different world, and need to keep in touch with the circumstances of others. I keep reading that they're businessman - well, good businessmen need to understand their market and its limitations.
yes that could be done.
All of these options are pen to them but as i said. its all to play catch up or stand still with the rich clubs 30mins down the road. When you will want a 35mil player in the summer or klopp spends 40 on dahoud and pulisic in January nobody will be saying oh FSG are generous or oh why didn't they put that to the anfield road end then.....
Maybe the reason for the pause is down to the simple fact that you've not sold out all the seats in your new stand as of yet?FFP is irrelevant in a discussion on ROI
Tax liability is a different discussion too.
You are asking them to tie up 75mil of thier cash for 10 years maybe? why should they? maybe that 75mil would make a better return in fenway where the fans don't scream greed at them
have to look at the opportunity cost, cost of capital (if they put their own money in again this is a help to us big time) ROI, NPV.
Just cos we might WANT a shiny stand we also want a shiny team and a shiny manager and want it all like big kids.
FSG on the other hand have to manage their businesses sustainably.
They'll want to see over subscription before committing to further expansion.
It is, mainly because we do get good gates [if I'm reading it right and I can't guarantee that I am!!] These are the latest figures available -
You must log in or register to see images
the reality is that nobody can. the tv fan can't the match day fan can't... i don't understand HOW it hasn't burst this bubble already.
A subscription to two tv companies to watch football for example.. a £77 ticket to be closer to klopp on match day etc etc etc.
no lfc fan seemed to bothered by arsenal fans paying this mind...
You can say this about business all you ant but for me it reminds me of the backs in 2008. They ALL had to lend stupidly and hope the thing didn't explode cos when one lent 100% mortgage or 120% then they all had to or they've have no customers. and when it all came crashing down the bank that did the least worst still lost as much as the really reckless one.
Thats where football has to end sometime. It cannot keep going on and on like this... mulching cash down the spouts of corrupt agents and players so they can have the highlife... football fees and wages have been on hyper inflation for years.
You must log in or register to see images
now I have not found this for last 5 years but i know the average is supposedly now 44k per week and add in 1 billion in transfer fees this summer? a BILLION?
from 2000 to 2010 it went from 10k to 33k or 3x the wages over 10 years. another 6 years on its 4.5x...
this si where the stuff is going but we are complaining about our owenrs not building a stand or cutting ticket prices while we demand success too.
So, the wage bill is almost three times the gate receipts. For me, that's the problem in a nutshell - for all of football, not just us.
We have loads on waiting list
The reality is theres seats that have no view at all in there no sold until that anfield road end gets built.
the demand will be there and the place will be full..
v hull there was 53,109 in and v Leicester there was 51,232 thats the two data points so far.
The notice for re-registering to the waiting list only went out again recently.
If you put it this way.... i would fully accept updating the list and having the facts in front of you would be a prudent approach I'd expect from FSG but i know of guys on the list >10 years who are number 22,000 on the list..
in other words they have a **** tonne of demand
yup... see my post just above.
competitive demands mean.. well.. the fans get screwed everywhere.
The inflation will only be curbed when the TV cash starts to either level off or goes backwards, and there's no sign of this happening whatsoever.
As and when it does, some could be caught out if they've over committed in terms of fees and contracts, as the saying goes - we'll see who's still got their trunks on when the tides goes out....
The capacity is now 54,074, so you've not sold it out yet. The obstructed view seats are also very cheap I understand.
The waiting lists mean knack all until people commit to the purchase when it's made available.
German ticket prices are about half of ours on average. I imagine the argument will be that this is why we have a more competitive league, but I just can't see how it can be sustained.