It won't make it any the less false, as the last dozen or so posts on this thread alone show. On CI, there are posters complaining that some fans won't do enough. On here. people criticise when someone asks if more can be done.
How can one group try and regulate what every fan does. I am not knocking the Supporters Trust at all when I say that. There are supporters who do not come on this board and probably do not do twitter. In my opinion the only way you would get mass participation is to make an announcement in the HDM or at the ground itself and for obvious reasons this can't happen. There are always going to be groups of supporters who decide to do their own thing and you can't blame the Supporters Trust for that.
I don't think anybody is blaming them for that. I don't think anyone is blaming them for anything. I'm more interested in ways of making it better and stronger.
Maybe not, just having a quick read through but there are still people a bit bothered that so many different ideas have been mentioned and some are doing a pitch invasion etc. Just pointing out the impossibility of a united front. That is unless something is started by those in the know in the ground and taken up by everyone else.
A prime example of all what is wrong with social media. Loads of yea yea lets do this and lets do that when by and large those posting on social media will do nowt. Its now so easy to go and tell others what they should be doing and where they're going wrong. There are a number of groups already set up by people who have got of their arse's and are doing something, if you have something to add or object to get off yours and go to the meetings and tell them, at the very least join the organisation. Members of supporters groups do read this and i'm sure if they see an idea worth using they will pick it up, might not tell you that but use it all the same. This is not the real world, an good example is the social media campaign after the Brexit vote, over 4 million signed up, the fact that about 40,000 of them claim to be in the Vatican City make a mockery of the whole thing its worthless. Another is the facebook pitch invasion plan, 14,000 followers and 100 are up for it, loads of that 100 will be full of **** anyway watching the game on Sky. Do those posting understand the consequences of what they are suggesting others do. Small rant can't be arsed to type any more.
DMD. Just a few observations from a relatively objective observer (I.e. I don't think I've got involved in any meaningful discussion with you before). I've read through this and other posts and from what I can gather, you want this forum and maybe this thread in particular to be a debate about what protests we as fans could do on Saturday and in the future. The content on this thread is exactly that, a debate about possible protests. I cannot see that any suggested protest has been overly criticised. In fact it has been quite civil with nearly all posters being quite respectful of each others stance, especially on whether or not to attend or boycot the game. The trust will no doubt be taking the many suggestions on this forum into account. It cannot accommodate all protests and by the very nature of people's plans for Saturday, we cannot all protest jointly, some will protest in the ground, others outside and around the city. This forum and the trust are doing exactly as you ask, debating and considering protests. The trust chose to plan their protests outside the confines of this forum, and their reasons appear sound. They will announce their plans in the best way possible to get exposure without compromising the surprise element, why would they do it in any other way. On the issue of who is being argumentative on this forum, I'm afraid I have concluded it is you. The debate is exactly what you have asked for, yet you continue to argue unconvincingly that it is not. Anyway, my lunch break is over and I must get back to work, therefore don't expect any reply to your inevitable reply to this post.
"You want this forum and maybe this thread in particular to be a debate about what protests we as fans could do on Saturday and in the future." Partly, but not only. "This forum and the trust are doing exactly as you ask, debating and considering protests." Not strictly true, as the lack of trust replies and the last few dozen posts show. It's more about inclusiveness and leading by example. There's criticism of the club for not engaging with supporters, so it would seem appropriate for the trust to show what can be done. I'm not sure why people see this as challenging, as opposed to what could be one of a number of positives to drive the trust forward.
I suppose it depends what issues are being discussed I don't think it is a great place to discuss the merits of specific protest tactics with the Trust, although I would welcome knowing early what those tactics are. I do think it's a difficult call for the Trust to decide what protests to support and what to suggest, and I can see the point that discussing it between posters aids those decisions, but I'm not sure that discussions on here would be that productive for the Trust. This thread could have been a place to post specific ideas, and some have, and those ideas may have influenced the Trust, but I'm not sure a debate on them with the Trust formally giving a view would have helped, people get married to their own suggestions so tend to get defensive about them I'm pretty sure they have a few ideas on what to do, and may well have decided, and they will have to choose a balance between appeasing the more militant and getting a large group to take part...tough call I don't completey agree that the Trust committee are representatives of all fans though, I still think they are representatives of their members And I do think anonymity is important, or selective anonyminity at least. I'm comfortable that a few on here know who I am, you included, but I wouldn't want it generally known to be honest, and I certainly think it could stifle some people's ability to share opinions At the end of the day this is simply a forum for posting stuff, or your opinion on stuff. If the Trust want everyone's views then they should ask for them. And if they post a Thread on here asking for them that's fine, but I can't see a discussion with them on here ending up hugely productive ...anyway what is the protest going to be?
The trust have said in the past that they want to discuss things on here with all fans. That aside, the protest should be noisy. Noisy works best on telly. 'What do we want?' 'Loads of things' 'when do we want them?' 'It varies'.
To be fair I hadn't seen the Trust saying they wanted to discuss things on here, although I know you've mentioned it If that the case they should post a thread specifically asking for views Noisy works for me though
This noise may well come over even better on TV if made very close to the Sky studio during the pre-match build up, throughout half time & immediately post match. Is the studio bit South Stand? An extra point, not associated with the Dutch post I've quoted, is that it would not be good for the Trust if they were seen to be encouraging or involved, in any way, with protests that could be deemed illegal or dangerous.
I agree, I was just offering it as a possible reason for them not commenting on every protest mentioned.
One decent flag that says it all and is a newspaper Sports Editor's delight, as it saves the writing the story. The pictures get run and run again, retransmitted to other agencies etc in a way that noise doesn't. Noise and visuals both welcome.
I think thats key really. If the "surprise" protest is too out there, for want of a better word it will put people off and lose support. Would it be an idea for the Trust to put out a statement saying they dont support certain protests that may/maybe/could happen. Like fans on the pitch. I think this would lose a helluva lot of support. IMHO
