Off Topic The Politics Thread

[rangercol]

More young people voted than you seem to think....

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/09/young-people-referendum-turnout-brexit-twice-as-high

Over 60% of those who could vote didn't.
If they had I suspect that the result would have been different.
Edit: I didn't bother to read your link so I take the point

Although I maintain that the result could have been different had they turned out in higher numbers.

 

[sb_73]

Over 60% of those who could vote didn't.
If they had I suspect that the result would have been different.
Edit: I didn't bother to read your link so I take the point

Although I maintain that the result could have been different had they turned out in higher numbers.

About 64% of the under 24s voted Col, how the estimate was a pathetic 36% initially is beyond me. All a bit previous now.

Don't think David Davis should be doing his thinking in public regarding the stars of EU citizens who arrive in the UK prior to Brexit.

 

[durbar2003]

No details, too many details, no details too many details.............

 

[Uber_Hoop]

More young people voted than you seem to think....

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/09/young-people-referendum-turnout-brexit-twice-as-high

According to my arithmetic you'd have needed approximately 80% of the 1.6 million 16-17 year olds to have voted Remain to have changed the referendum outcome. Seeing as the article claims only a 65% turnout of those aged 18-25 and registered to vote, I can't imagine that the turnout of 16-17 year olds would've been much better, so I don't think Remain would've got there even if this group had been allowed to vote.

 

[durbar2003]

I think they should have allowed anyone who has been to the UK for a holiday at least once in their lives to have voted as well.

 

[Stroller]

According to my arithmetic you'd have needed approximately 80% of the 1.6 million 16-17 year olds to have voted Remain to have changed the referendum outcome. Seeing as the article claims only a 65% turnout of those aged 18-25 and registered to vote, I can't imagine that the turnout of 16-17 year olds would've been much better, so I don't think Remain would've got there even if this group had been allowed to vote.

I didn't suggest that it would Uber, and nor does the article - it does say the result would have been a lot closer though. I only posted it to refute the suggestion that most young people couldn't be bothered to vote. I do wonder though why we don't have actual voting statistics rather than the results of surveys conducted after the event.

 

[Uber_Hoop]

I didn't suggest that it would Uber, and nor does the article

I know...and I never said you did. I merely read the article that you kindly provided a link to and offered some thoughts.

- it does say the result would have been a lot closer though.

I imagine that that would be the case.

I only posted it to refute the suggestion that most young people couldn't be bothered to vote.

Two out of every three young voter seemed to have bothered, which is not bad. But it still seemed to be an issue that animated the older voter more than the younger, according to the Grauniad's article.

I do wonder though why we don't have actual voting statistics rather than the results of surveys conducted after the event.

I agree. It would interest me to understand how many from each age category voted Leave or Remain too, as well as perhaps the regional variations in all of this.

 

[ELLERS]

More young people voted than you seem to think....

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/09/young-people-referendum-turnout-brexit-twice-as-high

Sadly it's from the Guardian which is very pro-EU, doesn't want us to leave and has been kicking up a stink ever since we voted out. Probably find out it was less than they say.
People need to get real and move on. Out is out and all i keep reading of late is crap about 'what if'? It was a fair referendum and the Brexit team won the vote.
move on

 

[QPR Oslo]

Sadly it's from the Guardian which is very pro-EU, doesn't want us to leave and has been kicking up a stink ever since we voted out. Probably find out it was less than they say.
People need to get real and move on. Out is out and all i keep reading of late is crap about 'what if'? It was a fair referendum and the Brexit team won the vote.
move on

You keep on repeating this getting real and moving on bollox.. It was a close and very important vote that will have a larger impact on the young who voted mainly Remain, than old G^ts like me who mainly voted Leave, but will be too senile or dead to know of the disasters the result could cause. We are just getting the immediate unpleasant financiaI hit now.

To reflect this In my view the new Government need to take into account the views of the 48% who voted remain, and to be fair and even the views of about 52% of the number of Leave MP's who have stuck around long enough to have to work with the results of a Leave campaign based on lies and fear. Fair enough isn't! We might just stay in the Euro free market and keep freedom of movement, the £ and markets may recover and Britain can go on playing the same minor role on the sidelines as before, when where our nation should be a major player in the heart of Europe as many Britons and Europeans have always wanted, but never got.

 

[kiwiqpr]

yeah
sod those old gits who actually bothered to vote
maybe at the next referendum the under 25s should get two votes

 

[Stroller]

This is all going to change now though isn't it?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...ing-out-2billion-of-taxpayer-funded-work.html

 

[Chaz]

Sadly it's from the Guardian which is very pro-EU, doesn't want us to leave and has been kicking up a stink ever since we voted out. Probably find out it was less than they say.
People need to get real and move on. Out is out and all i keep reading of late is crap about 'what if'? It was a fair referendum and the Brexit team won the vote.
move on

You must log in or register to see media

 

[sb_73]

Japanese tech group buys ARM, one of UKs leading tech companies for £24bn, a £2.4bn saving on 23 June. Not necessarily a bad thing, we could see a wave of foreign acquisitions of British companies as the weakness of sterling makes the good ones cheap. As long as there is inward investment and jobs are maintained or even better created, no problem for me, business is international. May be an issue for those, including Theresa May apparently, who don't like seeing our 'national assets' sold off to foreigners. Though surely they would have to be nationalised national assets for this argument to make any sense. The 'nation' doesn't own any of ARM it's only interest is in the tax take from the company and its employees, its owned by its shareholders.

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

You must log in or register to see media

Of course, this is Hislop's Have I got OLD news for you, because he's whinging about the Leave ministers vacating the field, but since then, Johnson, Fox and Davis have been made key ministers in delivering Brexit and will be judged on their actions.

If Remainers like Hislop want to spent their time crying "Woe is me" and "We're all doomed" that's a matter for them, but the majority of the population has voted to leave the EU and Brexit has to be implimented and given a real chance to work (which I have no doubt it will, particularly given the number of countries around the world that are anxious to reach trade deals with the UK as soon as we leave the EU). Meanwhile, we want good relations with Europe and the best reciprocal trading conditions.

Remainers like Hislop will have to comfort themselves that, in the highly unlikely event that in 20 years time, the EU is a financially flourishing, powerful trade block taking on the world (and not the inward looking, anti-democratic, terrorist-ridden, political and economic basket case it is now) and there is huge support in the UK for a referendum to try to climb the walls and get back in, then the government of the day should give consideration to this.

 

[TootingExcess]

Of course, this is Hislop's Have I got OLD news for you, because he's whinging about the Leave ministers vacating the field, but since then, Johnson, Fox and Davis have been made key ministers in delivering Brexit and will be judged on their actions.

If Remainers like Hislop want to spent their time crying "Woe is me" and "We're all doomed" that's a matter for them, but the majority of the population has voted to leave the EU and Brexit has to be implimented and given a real chance to work (which I have no doubt it will, particularly given the number of countries around the world that are anxious to reach trade deals with the UK as soon as we leave the EU). Meanwhile, we want good relations with Europe and the best reciprocal trading conditions.

Remainers like Hislop will have to comfort themselves that, in the highly unlikely event that in 20 years time, the EU is a financially flourishing, powerful trade block taking on the world (and not the inward looking, anti-democratic, terrorist-ridden, political and economic basket case it is now) and there is huge support in the UK for a referendum to try to climb the walls and get back in, then the government of the day should give consideration to this.

We need to just get on with it and leave. I don't think its going to be very good for the country, and suspect I'll end up working in Frankfort or (more likely) Dublin, but they need to make a start now and not wait for French/German elections next year.

 

[Chaz]

Isn't it incredible how all the Leave camp want to suppress free speech and proper engagement in the democratic process. Hislop made his remarks on BBC QT, and what he says is spot on. It's absolutely right that those of us who voted Remain hold the Leave camp to account. As the facts emerge and people understand that immigration isn't going to get any better, or that there are no heinous laws 'imposed' on us by Brussels that are being immediately repealed, or that trade with non-EU countries was perfectly possible on our own terms before leaving the EU, or that there's no silver bullet for the NHS, etc. etc. it's absolutely right - if not essential to our democracy - that those who made such claims are held to account. Especially if they have been 'rewarded' with a plum job in the new cabinet.

That's how this works. It's not whinging, it's not doom and gloom, it's how the country operates.

As for the time of this departure, we do NOT need to rush this. It would be FAR better to wait and do it right, than to rush it to satisfy certain sector's lust for EU blood, and get it wrong.

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

We need to just get on with it and leave. I don't think its going to be very good for the country, and suspect I'll end up working in Frankfort or (more likely) Dublin, but they need to make a start now and not wait for French/German elections next year.

Frankfort may be a freudian slip, Tooting! Frankinfort may be even better. I'm confident that with all the trials that the EU will be facing going forwards, terrorism, migration from Africa, high youth unemployment in some states, problems with euro compatibility etc. Mrs Merkel is not going to want to ostracize the UK, but rather accommodate in a way that suits all parties. We have to have control over immigration - I could see the UK making a financial contribution to stay in the single market and avoid tariffs that will be damaging all round.

You're absolutely right to mention the elections in France and Germany next year. Prime Minister May, may find herself negotiating with two right wing leaders thereafter.

 

[TheBigDipper]

<snip>
As for the time of this departure, we do NOT need to rush this. It would be FAR better to wait and do it right, than to rush it to satisfy certain sector's lust for EU blood, and get it wrong.

I'm detecting an undercurrent of fear in some quarters that Parliament might not pass the motion to invoke Article 50 - despite the 52%-48% vote. They fear that the longer it drags on without being passed, the more likely it won't happen. Hence the increase in emotional levels and daft talk about "coups" happening if we don't.

I don't expect MPs to have the guts to oppose the result, myself, even if they believed it to be wrong. I still think Article 50 will be invoked and we will leave. I'm quite positive that Davis will get the best deal we are likely to get, too.

 

[ELLERS]

You keep on repeating this getting real and moving on bollox.. It was a close and very important vote that will have a larger impact on the young who voted mainly Remain, than old G^ts like me who mainly voted Leave, but will be too senile or dead to know of the disasters the result could cause. We are just getting the immediate unpleasant financiaI hit now.

To reflect this In my view the new Government need to take into account the views of the 48% who voted remain, and to be fair and even the views of about 52% of the number of Leave MP's who have stuck around long enough to have to work with the results of a Leave campaign based on lies and fear. Fair enough isn't! We might just stay in the Euro free market and keep freedom of movement, the £ and markets may recover and Britain can go on playing the same minor role on the sidelines as before, when where our nation should be a major player in the heart of Europe as many Britons and Europeans have always wanted, but never got.

Move on. And before you go on about old gits It's the 40-60-year-olds who run and employ most of the people in the big businesses. It's the old gits that make the big deals and have created amazing companies. It's old gits like James Dyson (69). whom is worth £4b and employees many. It's old gits like my boss (58) who employs 1000 people. Most of these people are the best in the World at what they do. Are you saying they should not decide or be allowed to vote?
It's called democracy and people need to accept it or move to North Korea.
Maybe we could have another referendum and if that is remain we can then have another and create more uncertainty.

 

[ELLERS]

You must log in or register to see media

As if i am going to listen to that plonk. Old news and he would complain even if there was nothing to complain about. Blokes a muppet.