Off Topic YOUR VOTE COUNTED...

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ON 23rd of June which way are you going to vote?.

  • IN

    Votes: 28 43.8%

  • OUT

    Votes: 34 53.1%

  • DON'T KNOW

    Votes: 4 6.3%
  • Total voters
    64
  • Poll closed .
Treble said:
Errr... nice lecture. Nowt to do with what I posted but nice nonetheless.

Why did you make up a quote that I never said? <laugh>

Also appreciate the patronising introduction to a manifesto. Once again nothing to do with what I posted but patronising nonetheless.

Now if we can put your 101 politics lesson to one side can we get back to the real world? We've had 2 referendums in 40 years just 2 ffs (both on the same issue). There's a reason why, and it's because we entrust our politicians (yes with all the political infrastructure you mentioned) to make those decisions for us. Democacy doesnt end with the ballot box. That's where it begins. It continues in parliament with our representatives introducing, debating AND then voting on issues that represent their constituents who voted them into power. (Ok the last bit is also a patronising lecture but mine was better :biggrin: )
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Actually we've had 3... sniff...

Patronising enough?
 
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Not much "democracy" going on in Westminster today, an unelected Prime Minister to be chosen in a secret ballot, the main brexit figure telling the no voters that there's no hurry in pressing the article 50 button just yet because he's happy with the pound after today's showing on the stock markets, Corbyn refusing to resign as Labour leader despite being humiliated by the mass walkout of his chosen shadow government.

Oh and and uncontrolled laughter in the house of commons despite of the **** state the country is in.
 
Treble said:
Errr... nice lecture. Nowt to do with what I posted but nice nonetheless.

Why did you make up a quote that I never said? <laugh>

Also appreciate the patronising introduction to a manifesto. Once again nothing to do with what I posted but patronising nonetheless.

Now if we can put your 101 politics lesson to one side can we get back to the real world? We've had 2 referendums in 40 years just 2 ffs (both on the same issue). There's a reason why, and it's because we entrust our politicians (yes with all the political infrastructure you mentioned) to make those decisions for us. Democacy doesnt end with the ballot box. That's where it begins. It continues in parliament with our representatives introducing, debating AND then voting on issues that represent their constituents who voted them into power. (Ok the last bit is also a patronising lecture but mine was better :biggrin: )
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Errr.. you looked like you needed that 101...

Post you responded to:

"If the difficult, technical decisions are going to be passed straight to the people politicians should only be paid as #parttime workers.

Up next, save NHS costs by making people decide treatments using a phone in vote.

And why bother training judges when we can use reality TV shows to decide punishments."

Your response:


"Democracy is not about the masses deciding the laws. Democracy is about the masses deciding their leaders... who then decide the laws."

So how does pointing out there is a difference between direct democracy the subject Astro is talking about and criticising in his post. And your claim in reply that that is not what democracy is about which you then go on to explain incorrectly what you think it's about. You were trying to describe representative democracy and got it wrong...that's not my fault....

I simply pointed out they are two individual forms for democracy and not to be confused which you clearly were doing.

Also I pointed out that your understanding of representative democracy was incorrect as you stated it now the post I quoted above.

If you meant something else then write something else.

I didn't write a false quote attributed to you...that's what the words "you might as well say" mean...

Do you need English 101 too? Lol...

The rest of your post just agrees with my description of representative democracy....so how is yours "real world" and mine isn't..

Me thinks you read Saint and I's discussion later and thought it might be an effective side step to the fact you just posted a daft inaccurate post. You should have kept reading....it's ok...you and I seem to agree now though on a more accurate description of democracy in this country....

Still being patronising but in this case I think you deserve it....whoah now I know what being a top remain campaigner feels like! <laugh>
 
Page_Moss_Kopite said:
Not much "democracy" going on in Westminster today, an unelected Prime Minister to be chosen in a secret ballot, the main brexit figure telling the no voters that there's no hurry in pressing the article 50 button just yet because he's happy with the pound after today's showing on the stock markets, Corbyn refusing to resign as Labour leader despite being humiliated by the mass walkout of his chosen shadow government.

Oh and and uncontrolled laughter in the house of commons despite of the **** state the country is in.
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I'm not going to bite on your first bit...I've been too patronising and non real world already apparently :bandit:
 
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DirtyFrank said:
Errr.. you looked like you needed that 101...

Post you responded to:

"If the difficult, technical decisions are going to be passed straight to the people politicians should only be paid as #parttime workers.

Up next, save NHS costs by making people decide treatments using a phone in vote.

And why bother training judges when we can use reality TV shows to decide punishments."

Your response:


"Democracy is not about the masses deciding the laws. Democracy is about the masses deciding their leaders... who then decide the laws."

So how does pointing out there is a difference between direct democracy the subject Astro is talking about and criticising in his post. And your claim in reply that that is not what democracy is about which you then go on to explain incorrectly what you think it's about. You were trying to describe representative democracy and got it wrong...that's not my fault....

I simply pointed out they are two individual forms for democracy and not to be confused which you clearly were doing.

Also I pointed out that your understanding of representative democracy was incorrect as you stated it now the post I quoted above.

If you meant something else then write something else.

I didn't write a false quote attributed to you...that's what the words "you might as well say" mean...

Do you need English 101 too? Lol...

The rest of your post just agrees with my description of representative democracy....so how is yours "real world" and mine isn't..

Me thinks you read Saint and I's discussion later and thought it might be an effective side step to the fact you just posted a daft inaccurate post. You should have kept reading....it's ok...you and I seem to agree now though on a more accurate description of democracy in this country....

Still being patronising but in this case I think you deserve it....whoah now I know what being a top remain campaigner feels like! <laugh>
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Meeeeeow!!

The only one who seems to be getting it wrong is you. Did it occur to you that perhaps I was using a short point to give my own view of what I prefer? I appreciate in your haste to turn anal, you missed that point...lol.

At no point did I say both forms of democracy were the same which for some reason you seem to be jumping up and down about. My post was taking on board what Astro was saying and going further with my own feelings about effective democracy . I may have responded to Astro's post, but I was giving my own opinion of real democracy, not referencing some technical, theoretical analysis you seem to enjoy lecturing about, on the differences between direct and representative democracy.

Next, you didn't use the term "you might as well say" <laugh> what you said was:

We do not just vote in a bunch of people and say "on you go; make some laws now!"

Seems you need the 101 English fella.... or perhaps an amnesia consultant to remind you what you said in your old age lol. Even what you've quoted is a sweeping statement of what I was getting at and only goes to show how little you understood of the point I was making. Comprehension also seems to be a weak point for you as well, old chap.

The reason mine is real world, is for the reasons I stated. Here's a clue, the explanation came straight after the bit where I said "Now if we can put your 101 politics lesson to one side, can we get back to the real world?" You could go back and try reading that bit? It was something about the number of referendums we've had compared to democracy being about electing politicians who we trust to represent us and make those decisions.... but please, don't quote me on it... I fear you might get that wrong too after the last time.

Now, at the risk of starting another lecture from you, let me make it clear (and please Frank read the following bit slowly so it sinks in) I'm not saying they're both one and the same. I've never said they're one and the same. (let that bit sink in) All I've initmated is that for me, I don't want the masses voting on any single issue, I want the masses to vote for people we can entrust to make those decisions for us. That's what I believe to be good democracy. It's also the reason why I wouldn't like a referendum on capital punishment. I know it's a subtle point, but I fear I've had to deliver it with the force of a sledgehammer so you might understand. I know, this patronising stuff it fun, but in the inerests of common sense let's see if it worked this time <laugh>
 
If a referendum is a show of true democracy(the majority over the minority on a national level)how can a government not voted in by the majority of eligible voters in the country as a whole be seen as democratically elected?

Proportional representation is the answer.:)
 
Treble said:
Meeeeeow!!

The only one who seems to be getting it wrong is you. Did it occur to you that perhaps I was using a short point to give my own view of what I prefer? I appreciate in your haste to turn anal, you missed that point...lol.

At no point did I say both forms of democracy were the same which for some reason you seem to be jumping up and down about. My post was taking on board what Astro was saying and going further with my own feelings about effective democracy . I may have responded to Astro's post, but I was giving my own opinion of real democracy, not referencing some technical, theoretical analysis you seem to enjoy lecturing about, on the differences between direct and representative democracy.

Next, you didn't use the term "you might as well say" <laugh> what you said was:

We do not just vote in a bunch of people and say "on you go; make some laws now!"

Seems you need the 101 English fella.... or perhaps an amnesia consultant to remind you what you said in your old age lol. Even what you've quoted is a sweeping statement of what I was getting at and only goes to show how little you understood of the point I was making. Comprehension also seems to be a weak point for you as well, old chap.

The reason mine is real world, is for the reasons I stated. Here's a clue, the explanation came straight after the bit where I said "Now if we can put your 101 politics lesson to one side, can we get back to the real world?" You could go back and try reading that bit? It was something about the number of referendums we've had compared to democracy being about electing politicians who we trust to represent us and make those decisions.... but please, don't quote me on it... I fear you might get that wrong too after the last time.

Now, at the risk of starting another lecture from you, let me make it clear (and please Frank read the following bit slowly so it sinks in) I'm not saying they're both one and the same. I've never said they're one and the same. (let that bit sink in) All I've initmated is that for me, I don't want the masses voting on any single issue, I want the masses to vote for people we can entrust to make those decisions for us. That's what I believe to be good democracy. It's also the reason why I wouldn't like a referendum on capital punishment. I know it's a subtle point, but I fear I've had to deliver it with the force of a sledgehammer so you might understand. I know, this patronising stuff it fun, but in the inerests of common sense let's see if it worked this time <laugh>
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So we are agreeing then? <badger>

A d who doesn't like it when it turns anal...unless you're in the Chelsea dressing room!
 
Page_Moss_Kopite said:
If a referendum is a show of true democracy(the majority over the minority on a national level)how can a government not voted in by the majority of eligible voters in the country as a whole be seen as democratically elected?

Proportional representation is the answer.:)
Click to expand...

There was a time when I truly believed that. Then Nick Clegg happened.
 
DirtyFrank said:
Just out of interest. Of those on here that want to see a 2nd referendum...what threshold would you put on it this time to have it judged as a legitimate majority?
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50.1. Oh, wait...

It's over and we've got to got on with it. I'd love BBC News to go back and interview that monkey-hanger in Hartlepool in five years who said getting rid of the immigrants means they'll get new factories and their hospital back. And having seen the undercover report on England fans in France atm, I'm almost happy that England are out.

Why did ANYONE think this country was civilised? Credit to the French, at least their hooligans are trades unionists and have a common purpose to their thugism.
 
donga blokhin said:
50.1. Oh, wait...

It's over and we've got to got on with it. I'd love BBC News to go back and interview that monkey-hanger in Hartlepool in five years who said getting rid of the immigrants means they'll get new factories and their hospital back. And having seen the undercover report on England fans in France atm, I'm almost happy that England are out.

Why did ANYONE think this country was civilised? Credit to the French, at least their hooligans are trades unionists and have a common purpose to their thugism.
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It was a serious question lol...
 
UK has lost aaa rating from all agencies now. Fitchso and standard and poor a downgrade uk debt.

This means since Brexit.

£ hits 31-year low vs $

10y yield record low

£100B wiped off FTSE 100

£140B wiped off FTSE 350

UK taxpayer loses £8B on RBS

UK loses AAA rating

And this isn't yet bad... it it would stabilise it's be OK.. but what is going to occur over nightand tomorrow.
 
Page_Moss_Kopite said:
Not much "democracy" going on in Westminster today, an unelected Prime Minister to be chosen in a secret ballot, the main brexit figure telling the no voters that there's no hurry in pressing the article 50 button just yet because he's happy with the pound after today's showing on the stock markets, Corbyn refusing to resign as Labour leader despite being humiliated by the mass walkout of his chosen shadow government.

Oh and and uncontrolled laughter in the house of commons despite of the **** state the country is in.
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That's the problem with it though, Page. They take the whole thing as some sort of personal contest amongst themselves and running the country as a game of Risk.
 
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