It is like a club having 4 members. 2 are against and 2 are for decision. Yet the club goes ahead. So is it any surprise that the other 2 say they want out as they refuse to be bullied by the bigger and more powerful member?
Off Topic YOUR VOTE COUNTED...
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It is like a club having 4 members. 2 are against and 2 are for decision. Yet the club goes ahead. So is it any surprise that the other 2 say they want out as they refuse to be bullied by the bigger and more powerful member?
I'm not sore about anything, i don't think the result will affect me in or out as i think this world is made up of rich people who hold all the power.
I'm not the one bleating away about a result that didn't go my way. I was just making a prediction of what i think will happen
TBF Diego I have addressed that issue regarding willing participation.
But as Saint says once Cameron used Westminster power to ignore the fact that 3 areas of the UK had devolved power and should have voted on separate referendums there was little they could do.
There is a serious constitutional flaw in saying these states have autonomy on everything but tax and foreign policy and then force such a constitutional change upon them.
Cameron reason for doing as he did with one UKl referendum was to stop one state (he had Scotland in mind) from deciding for Everyone. Except that's exactly what happened...I know the Welsh consider themselves independent but they've historically shared much more in mind with England than Scotland or NI.
I'm sure if I think about it I'll see flaws in the proposals set forth in that piece and obviously it won't satisfy England Wales Brexiters completely buy theirs the building blocks of a good plan there that can please Scotland and NI while also limiting some of the damage England Remainers fear.
But as Saint says once Cameron used Westminster power to ignore the fact that 3 areas of the UK had devolved power and should have voted on separate referendums there was little they could do.
There is a serious constitutional flaw in saying these states have autonomy on everything but tax and foreign policy and then force such a constitutional change upon them.
Cameron reason for doing as he did with one UKl referendum was to stop one state (he had Scotland in mind) from deciding for Everyone. Except that's exactly what happened...I know the Welsh consider themselves independent but they've historically shared much more in mind with England than Scotland or NI.
I'm sure if I think about it I'll see flaws in the proposals set forth in that piece and obviously it won't satisfy England Wales Brexiters completely buy theirs the building blocks of a good plan there that can please Scotland and NI while also limiting some of the damage England Remainers fear.
I'll use my graphic pen next time.They shouldn't have used pencils to sign it.
Nevermind Game of Thrones, there's a real Game of Cronies happening in the House of Commons right now
You are missing the point, it was a union wide vote (not 4 independent ones) and 38% of Scotts added to the leave outcome and so made a difference.
Had the vote gone for the remain side would you be happy for people to say the 62% of Scotts who voted remain should not count?
Well said Ken Clarke: it is MPs' duty to act in the national interest and says they should not take "broad guidance" from "a plebiscite which has produced a small majority on a broad question after a bad tempered and ill-informed debate".
This referendum was for a change. Of course we shouldn't implement new rules retrospectively.
The rules should have been (like in many other referendums over the world) that this drastic change would not happen unless all the countries approve like England. In many referendums in Canada or Australia, the decision must be approved by all the states or it does not pass. Even a 50.1 for Brexit in each of the countries would be suffcient. That would have avoided a constitutional crisis like the one we are currently seeing. Apparently Cameron was asked to do that but the overconfident pratt refused it and said he was going for a straight majority across the UK. He never imagined in hsi worst nightmares that he could possibly lose.
Everyone not only Clarke is saying this referendum is ONLY advisory. The MP can ignore it if he wishes. He/She HAS to. What's the worst that can happen? he'll be voted out at the next election. But he would be saving the country from economic disaster for ages to come.
Cameron has screwed his career over this, and if it does get really bad (I sincerely hope not, btw) he will go down in history as the PM that brought down the whole house of cards.
Still, like Tony Blair before him, he'll probably still make millions out of going around lecturing and advising people on how they too can be as big an idiot as he.
Sadly they're just picking apart the corpse of the country now in a careerist game of 1-upmanship. It'll be interesting to see how it develops over time however. I do think that this is not yet a done deal. It's a political game now, mostly being played by key figures in the Tories who want to lead and run the party. They will affect what happens with Article 50 and the EU. But the games are afoot in Labour as well, they will have an influence of course on how the country proceeds but their role now is get a legitimate, strong opposition in place asap. Cameron has resigned which is his first blow to the leavers in the party as the onus is on them to pull the trigger and do the leaving. His confirmation in his address this afternoon that the result should be accepted is the next shot at them as they perhaps would have expected him to approach a leave result differently. It's all manoeuvring and tactics at this point and has a long ways to run. In the meantime unfortunately the country is suffering economically as shares and currency bottom out and socially as louts come crawling out and start spraying abusive graffiti on Polish community centres and so on.
Remember I'm in the same camp as you, carl, but I fear you may be clutching at straws here.
Plenty of MPs giving Cameron and the Tories a roasting right now, lots of noise about the leave campaigns mistruths and the margin of the result, calls for another referendum specifically. This is still right up in the air
Honestly..if it happens there will be a bigger long term constitutional crisis than this current one.
I would say it's all being quite expertly fudged, tbh.
Just out of interest. Of those on here that want to see a 2nd referendum...what threshold would you put on it this time to have it judged as a legitimate majority?
I agree. The country has been ****ed up for another generation further down the line at least than it already was after the financial crisis first took hold years back
Thinking of Churchill's line in paraphrase ... if you want to know the main problem with democracy go and find the opinion of the average voter