Off Topic Politics Thread

Labour need to try and force a general election before October - but Corbyn has to go. Been an abject failure on Europe.

 

When you say it is a good thing it is happening now, that depends on your age and your circumstances. It might be a complete disaster for some that it is happening now.

Judging by the table posted earlier, it would appear that the majority of the 'future of this country' didn't want this.

 

You missed 2 words ..."in Europe" from the first sentence.

 

Peter Mandelson and Norman Tebbit. Someone buy me a plane ticket.

 

Even with the oil price so low? That would be crazy for the Scottish economy.

 

Just to lighten the mood.

 

Carney saying all the right things to try to stabilise the economy. BoE to take any steps necessary to ensure that happens.

 

I am truly shocked. This is such a gamble. I like the odd flutter but the country had voted to gamble our entire economy.
There are times to play it safe IMO, this was one of them.

 

You've got to feel for Gibraltar who voted something like 95% to remain.

 

Tell them it's a 2 for 1 and they get the Isle of Wight and a new Queen with it

 

Another piece of "Great" Britain going? Oh they wanted to make Britain Great again, not smaller

 

At this rate it will only be England and Wales!

 

I'm feeling bad enough about this as it is, don't tell me I've got to link arms with Helen too?

 

Maybe we'll become Engerwales and then Bale can play for us

 

I worked as a poll clerk yesterday and it was interesting in that you could just feel what was happening. There was a definite sense of anger at the current situation and those that had allowed it. I have no idea what people were actually voting but many of them wanted to comment on some aspect of it. It was more than anything a protest vote, but one with immense consequences. The truly upsetting thing is that it was all so avoidable if only politicians from across Europe had listened to what the 'man in the street' was saying.

For the leave people this was not a vote about the economy it was a vote about not wanting to be a state in a federal Europe, it was about being able to walk around Southampton and not feel that you're living in Warsaw, it was pure emotion in some cases.

I'm convinced that if the question had been something like, "Would you like to remain in Europe if the Community returned to its original intention of being united in trade" then the result would have been around 90% in favour of remain. But the politicians seem to have no grasp on reality these days (did they ever).

The bottom line is whatever the result, no-one could ever give anything more than an opinion on what would be the best for the country. Is it ultimately good or bad for our youth? We don't know. These are worrying times but I suppose they are also times of immense opportunity for many.

 

Well I have learned that betting really is not for me. Went to bed as usual and the odds for us to remain were 1/10 on so I felt comforted that they surely couldn't be that confident for no reason. Wrong. They've got as much idea as the polls. Just waiting for Trump to win in the USA now as people seem sure he won't.

Good luck on the job front. I don't think everyone really understands how this may affect them.

 

This is a copy of my facebook post on the subject. Make of it what you will.

La roi est mort, viva la.... que?

The Emperor has no clothes on.

To the Eurosceptic, this is a statement of fact. The hollow centre of the EU has been shown up as a talking shop, whose lethargy and lack of agility to respond to crises has been tried in the court of public opinion. To the internationalist, it is a prophecy - that when the clamour dies down and the hard talking begins, the lack of any coherent plan on the Leave side will be revealed for what it is: arrogance, bluster and a cynical grab for power.

I voted remain. In an increasingly interconnected world, where many of the problems humanity faces are global, I see little good arising from division and isolationism.

I wish I could have more hope in the light of this result, but presently I see scarce few positives. At best, it may elicit some much needed soul-searching and reform or raise a warning flag to other nations. America has elections this year, Germany and France next. Let this be a lesson to you - those that they prey on hatred, division and intolerance will be emboldened by the outcome of the referendum. At worst, I see a decision that will divide a continent. Either Britain will made an example of, or other countries will leave the EU and enemies without will take advantage of the lack of solidarity.

We are in a bad negotiating position. Although this country has many benefits (good infrastructure, an educated populace, the English language, cultural soft power), we are in awkward situation. We have slightly over two years to negotiate trade deals both with the EU and with other partners. A recession, which is a definite possibility, will further diminish our negotiating position. Put simply, we are desperate, our trading partners may not be. In some instances, signing new trade deals may be as simple as changing a few names at the bottom of a treaty. In most cases, we are vulnerable to the internal political pressures facing our trading partners.

I genuinely hope that I am wrong. I hope that we can go it alone and make a success of things, and that I am merely auguring phantasms, not realities. But I certainly fear for the future.

It could be argued that we should have seen this coming. This vote is less a representation of dissatisfaction with the EU, and more a symptom of a greater malaise, a growing sense of disillusion with a small and distant elite who have benefited from globalisation, and a large majority that has not. This can be seen in the Occupy movement or in the American primaries or the rise of anti-establishment populist candidates. This would explain the rise of Trump as a potential US president, although it is hard to imagine that his election would herald a more egalitarian society. Ironically, as Orwell observed in "The Theory and Practice of Oligarchical Collectivism" in "1984", those are the bottom seldom benefit when the Establishment is dislodged.

So what can we do?

For starters, it is important not to castigate those voted against your wishes. Anyone can be lied to, and there was misinformation and fear on both sides of the campaign. Furthermore, whilst it is fair to say that a portion of the Leave vote was driven by xenophobia and ignorance (just as it is fair to say that a portion of the Remain electorate may have voted in its own self-interests), the matter of EU membership was always far more nuanced that the binary decision of Yes or No. The capability to vote to remain a member of the common market, but curtail the EU's political sensibilities, was not an option on the voting card.

I urge you to write to your MP. The Leave camp has promised that the same levels of investment that we receive from the EU. That's the same level of internal investment in science, the arts, or regions like Cornwall. Make Cameron enshrine that promise in law. And whilst he's at, get him to protect worker's rights too. There are many that are looking at the departure of the EU as any excuse to get rid of the EU Working Time Directive (under the guise of "Red Tape"). If we face a recession, erosion of worker’s rights will be made on the grounds of “competitiveness”.

The king is dead. Long live the King. But let's make sure he has some clothes on first!

 

So England is now the Millwall of Europe.

(Except that Millwall is in Lewisham. And Lewisham was about 79% remain).

Thanks, muppets.

 

He got voted in on the back of promising this referendum, the fact it has back fired on him and forced him to quit shows quite clearly how out of touch the goverment is with the majority of people outside of London. Lets face it the magin of victory would have been huge if the leave campaign didn't have such a group of morons leading their campaign.