Off Topic BREXIT
- Thread starter Chazz Rheinhold
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An in vote will protect Maternity/paternity pay, equal pay, maximum hours, paid holidays, TUPE rights, rest breaks, health & safety & many other details regardless of who is in power
People bravely fought and died in WW II in the belief they were saving England from foreign powers. Against the odds those brave people won. Then along came the slick corporate politicians who have no respect for sovereign states and unified Europe by stealth and lies. Be under no illusion the politicians like Blair and Cameron have no loyalty to us or our Country they are in the pockets of the Global banks and Corporations. OUT
Lincoln Tiger
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure why anyone's excited really
I know they've called it a referendum, but any decision would have to be passed as an act of Parliament and around 70% of MPs are in the remain camp
So it might not get passed in parliament regardless, and actually as far as democratic process I think that's the right thing. We voted for the people in parliament to represent us, not to ask us our opinion on everything. They should do what they're paid for, not defer it to us because it's a tricky choice
I know they've called it a referendum, but any decision would have to be passed as an act of Parliament and around 70% of MPs are in the remain camp
So it might not get passed in parliament regardless, and actually as far as democratic process I think that's the right thing. We voted for the people in parliament to represent us, not to ask us our opinion on everything. They should do what they're paid for, not defer it to us because it's a tricky choice
its age related, Ive noticed...... those above a certain age want out but the younger ones want in.
go figure.
go figure.
I actually think parliamentary representative democracy is ****e. I also think partisan politics is ****e. My preference is direct participatory democracy. I'm not voting Leave so parliament can have sovereignty. I'm voting so that there's a potential possibility we can erode representative democracy and instigate a form of direct democracy. Switzerland has elements of direct democracy. A political movement called the Five Star Movement in Italy recently won the mayoral election in Rome; they propose direct democracy.
If parliament refuses to enact legislation leading to Article 50 then the Queen should invoke her royal prerogative and enact Article 50. It would be ridiculous if it came to that but if parliament won't accept the mandate of the people the monarch should at least.
I'm not advocating that the current arrangement is right, and I was being slightly tongue in cheek. However I do think there is a possibility it won't happen even if it goes towards leave
The worst thing for me is that even if you are genuinely trying to find facts to help you decide you'd struggle amongst all the noise
If you are going to argue an important point it might help if you stay with the conversation. There was much more than a one-liner.
My problem with representative democracy is that we're electing people to make our decisions for us, which basically implies we're too stupid to make them ourselves. If that's the case, we may as well have a dictatorship. I've heard stuff like 'turkeys voting for Christmas' since the Tories won the last election. A pure democracy would have no parliament, no representatives and no political parties; just regional and devolved citizens' assemblies where people vote on issues according to their communities. The problem is that nation states in a heavily globalised 21st century are too big and too centralised. If, and that's a big 'if', we leave the EU I want to see massive decentralisation and devolution but that can only happen outside the EU.
Then maybe I missed it, I saw him respond with a one liner. I made my point, you and him disagree, some people dont. As much as politics are being allowed right now going much further than that would probably not keep the thread on point.
Its about what you all are doing not really about what I think you should do. If you choose to leave then the relationship between your country and ours might change but I doubt it. The argument that you all will take a back seat to others simply because they would technically bigger when combined seems manipulative. You are an economic power and we arent going to ignore you just because you arent in the EU.
Of course not, Elle. Otherwise, that whole 'special relationship' stuff is bollocks. Plus, you have military bases on our shores. There's been talk of WWIII by some politicians and other people supporting Remain.
Actually because of the electoral system we have a minority government rules because the opposition is always split. So to say 'we voted' for who is in charge is disingenuous.
On another note, there are those thinking if we stay there will be reforms. That somehow voting Remain will lead to us 'fighting to improve Europe' is a load of bullshit. Cameron went to Brussels to get a 'better deal' and came back with a 4 year ban on migrants claiming benefits. That's was his only concession and what he originally asked was a 13 year ban. The 27 other member states all need to agree on reforms. If we vote Remain, the European Commission will take that as a mandate that the status quo is fine and there's no need for reforms. Only by leaving can anything change.
Absolutely agree.
If we are unwilling to take responsibility for our own lives and are willing to obsequiously hand it over to pig ****ing, self serving, self selecting elite, we deserve all we get.
Which is why I won't be voting.
Don't give the bastards the justification of a mandate.
I voted in the last general election and I'll be voting Leave (I've made my reasons why) but I won't be voting ever again. I despise even the notion of political parties, let alone the actual ones we have. Tories, Labour, Ukip, Lib Dem, Green, they're not all the same ideologically but they all represent the same divisive political tribalism that I resent. I voted for Yorkshire First last May because they were a relatively new party (formed in 2014), ideologically centrist and were campaigning on more devolution for Yorkshire. I couldn't stomach voting for the others. I could never envision myself voting for a political party ever again.
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